D-Nut Embassy: Those Darn Foreigners!

[Kentharu]

Here ye Here ye (oh i feel special!) this Embassy is now in seccision
hold that made very little sense but OH WELL!!!

see, i do have a sense of humor, now down to business
as Embassy guy for D-nut ill be announcing all meetings with Those Darn Foreigners in this thread (or maybe in the FM thread)
as of now i am trying to set up a meeting with daveshack or someone of importance

here is the pm i sent to Dave just now

greetings oh great and powerful Doughnut leader/person in charge

I, as of tonight, am the new diplomat to you, assigned by Emperor Napoleon himself (our new and powerful Foreign Minister)
as ordered i need to meet with one of you atleast (talking to myself is fun but...) so, whenever you guys feel like talking feel free
my AIM is Kentharu1 and my MSN add is kentharu@hotmail.com

Kentharu (The slightly slow)

ooh the laughter!!!

 

[rujikin]

Here ye Here ye (oh i feel special!) this Embassy is now in seccision
hold that made very little sense but OH WELL!!!

see, i do have a sense of humor, now down to business
as Embassy guy for D-nut ill be announcing all meetings with Those Darn Foreigners in this thread (or maybe in the FM thread)
as of now i am trying to set up a meeting with daveshack or someone of importance

here is the pm i sent to Dave just now


ooh the laughter!!!

Uh, Moo?

 

[Kentharu]

Hi kentharu,

Congratulations with your appointment! We hope that you like the
ambassador's hut in Springfield. And in exchange for monthly beer
supplies from MIA, we'll consider upgrading you to the deluxe
ambassador hut, the one without poisionous spiders .

Unfortunately Doughnutia currently has no ambasador for MIA, but we'll
see what we can do. Could you please let us know what you would like
to chat about? It would help our team in its preparations for this
chat. Also we would like to know whether you have considered our trade
proposal.

On behalf of Doughnutia,

zyxy
a Doughnut

another letter from D-nut, still no meeting

i kinda lost my reply but here is a summary (it wasn't very long anyway)

pity we can't meet again but take your time in doing whatever your doing no rush

comments?

 

[fe3333au]

In consultion between Foreign Minister Emperor.Napoleon and ambassadors Kentharu and fe3333au ... we have drafted and sent this message to D-Nuts ...

PMed to DaveShack; magnusmarcus; killercane; zyxy

Dear Citizens of the great Doughnut Nation

We were wondering if there is a reason for your continued silence and lack of will to meet? ... We assumed a willingness on your part to open dialogue when we received your trade proposal.

Yet, we have repeatedly requested, through many avenues, to arrange a chat meeting with your representatives ... concerning of course the finer details of your knowledge swap proposal ... and receive only silence and then recently, a message indicating that no-one was available ...

As mentioned in our correspondences, MIA cannot agree to this document as it stands ...

We are well on the way to gaining the knowledge of Writing as it is ... and since we have noted your lack of certain 'choice' technologies and also sense aggressive vibes percolating from other sources on your continent ... We merely contact you in the perception of the possibility that you may be interested in a mutually beneficial exchange ...

We therefore logically assumed that you would be very eager to trade fairly with us ... if we are mistaken please correct us ... and we will not badger you ...

Therefore we again request audience with our respective diplomatic representatives ... in order to speedily discuss other options that we feel would be fairer to both parties ...

Heed this, the longer you delay discussion ... the less valuable Writing becomes ...

Awaiting your prompt reply ...


Yours sincerely

MIA Foreign Department

Emperor.Napolean - Foreign Minister
Kentharu - Doughnut Ambassador
fe3333au - Aide and Scribe to the Department

We feel that the tone of the message is justified ...

I have also sent a copy to KISS ... just incase Nutters make contact in turn 42 (the save they have atm)

 

[fe3333au]

Receive in our mail box - Oct 2 (13 hours ago)

To Emperor Napolean, MIA Foreign Minsiter,
kentharu, MIA ambassador to Doughnutia,
and the fine people of MIA

Allow me to introduce myself, my name is Robi D and I am the newly
elected Foreign Affairs consul for Doughnutia. While I do not
officially take office for a couple of turns I am able to begin trade
negotiations with your fine country. Firstly, I would like to
apologise for the delay of our reply to your offer to negotiate, but
we had a couple of major events coincide. Firstly their was our
recent elections and secondly we had met the nation of TNT in our
travels. We welcomed them with open arms to which they responded by
trying to put a knife in our back. Rest assured we will punish their
treachery severely, but I do advise you to be weary in your dealings
with these warmongering fools if and when you meet them.

Now to get our trade negotiations off to a start, we are willing to
trade Writing for bronze working, wheel and ceremonial burial. Please
take this offer and discuss it with your government. I can be reached
via PM on the forums or via messenger at the address
rdragoljevic@hotmail.com

Thank you for your patience

Robi D , Foreign Affairs Consul of Doughnutia

and then an Erratum - 11:38 am (1½ hours ago)

My apologies but there was a mistake in the trade offer, it should
read, we are willing to trade Writing for WARRIOR CODE, wheel and
ceremonial burial.

Obviously we have already traded you for bronze working earlier
Thank you
Robi D

My thoughts

> D-Nuts are at WAR with TNT ... but good for us

>We play hard ball ... everything is in our favour ...
>Bit confused as to why they still maintain 3 tech trade option
>Wheel is only on table
>Ask if they have anything else to trade?
>If we give two techs ... they need to add cash
>We don't even have to tell them about meeting KISS, but if it comes up ... then we just mention meeting or knowing them

Also I would like permission to send this to KISS ... have President send it with save ...

 

[Kentharu]

send it, i bet KISS will be very interested to say the least just get Emp. to approve

500 POST YEA BABY!!!!

 

[Kentharu]

for anyone that is here i finally cornered on of D-nut guys into a chat just now!
so speak up if you want to be heard

 

[peter grimes]

I'd love to, but have prior obligations. Maybe I can join in a few hours if you're still around.

Goodluck!

 

[Kentharu]

the chat is done (thank god it was short)
here is das log

Kentharu says:
hi there
DaveShack says:
hi
Kentharu says:
your from Doughnut right?
DaveShack says:
yes, has anyone contacted you yet? I've been setting up my system with more chat options in case nobody else has gotton around to it yet
Kentharu says:
nope no one
Kentharu says:
so can we talk now, before it is to late?
Kentharu says:
once it is fine with you of course
DaveShack says:
certainly
DaveShack says:
we are interested in a deal involving writing and have been hoping to hear what you're willing to offer
Kentharu says:
perhaps the wheel and cerimonial burial is a good trade?
Kentharu says:
seeing as the wheel is a valuable tech, leading to riding
Kentharu says:
what do you think?
DaveShack says:
that may be what we were thinking, just a sec while I check the forum
Kentharu says:
take your time sir
DaveShack says:
would warrior code and the wheel be acceptable?
Kentharu says:
warrior code would be valuable also to you, since i assume you are having trouble with another team
Kentharu says:
i hope i am not wrong to assume?
DaveShack says:
some folks with blue clothing are acting in a most unfriendly manner
DaveShack says:
a favorable trade now might give us confidence to return the favor in a future trade
DaveShack says:
I would certainly argue in that direction
Kentharu says:
as i would, and it would ensure our future trade perhaps, i do think warrior code and wheel is fair for writting, but my team may not be so inclined
Kentharu says:
they think the wheel would suffice
DaveShack says:
we could each ask our team to consider the options further. the first thought on our side was 3 techs for writing but the more level headed among us convinced the greedy ones that it would be quite insulting to suggest that
Kentharu says:
sorry bout that, happens sometimes (cruddy computer)
DaveShack says:
no problem, I gather that means your connection dropped
Kentharu says:
for a moment
DaveShack says:
so there are two main possibilities, either CB+wheel or WC+wheel. we would obviously prefer WC which gets to HBR first but I'll post a question to the team to see what they think
Kentharu says:
as will i
DaveShack says:
if we continue cooperating, then we'll both eventually have access to Republic way before the others, which is a big advantage to a potential long-term alliance
Kentharu says:
and in keep both of us alive
DaveShack says:
are you permitted to say if you've had any other contacts? I checked with the admins and they say that is OK, just not brokering deals...
Kentharu says:
no new contacts
Kentharu says:
and you?
DaveShack says:
just those blue-clad folks (Persia = TNT)
Kentharu says:
hopefully TNT isn't to aggressive
DaveShack says:
it will be interesting to see how they behave given the forum tone
DaveShack says:
given Rik's warning however I expect things to calm down a lot
Kentharu says:
so i would hope, but you never know
Kentharu says:
now, at the risk of sounding rude, is that all?
Kentharu says:

DaveShack says:
I was struggling with how to ask the same question
DaveShack says:
nothing more for now, looking forward to talking again
Kentharu says:
lol, cool, latter then good luck with TNT

i think we are making a bit more ground with the D-nuts
i might or might not post a summary of this (got some homework to do) but it wasn't long so everything is pretty much to the point, FE and Emp will no doubt have their say


and then latter on

Rob says:
good morning/afternoon/evening (depending on your timezone) i am the foreign affairs consul for team doughnut. Have you guys had an opertunity to consider our offer
Kentharu says:
i put it up for grabs in my team thread, no replies yet though, i will of course notify you as soon as we have a decision
Rob says:
ok i see you already talked to daveshack, so i assume your refering to writing for WC and wheel
Kentharu says:
yes, or coffins and wheel for writing
Rob says:
ok, while were here is there any other techs you are willing to trade with us
Kentharu says:
let me double check one moment
Rob says:
sure no probs
Kentharu says:
no i don't believe so
Kentharu says:
but the case might change though
Kentharu says:
in the future
Rob says:
ok, we do have philosophy available, so keep that in mind
Kentharu says:
we will
Rob says:
on another subject there was talk earlier in the game when our two teams met on the possibilty of a non-agression pact. We were happy from day 1 to agree to it and still are, so im just wondering if there is anything from your side on that issue
Kentharu says:
of course, but us being on different continents we saw no reason to bother
Kentharu says:
but if you would like, i will also bring it to my team
Rob says:
true we are on different continents, so in the short term it doesn't make much differernce, so if thats not important to you right now that fine, but if you feel the need to discuss it further at a future date we are open to it.
Kentharu says:
of course
Rob says:
well if there isn't anything else at the moment i'll leave you to it. You can always pm me or daveshack or just send an email to the team address once you guys have made a decision.
Kentharu says:
i wil do so, plus i have homework to get back to lol
Rob says:
no worries, have fun!
Kentharu says:
latter

 

[fe3333au]

Well done Ken ...

Question is the deal still open to negotiation ???

Excuse ... new information you were unaware of ... ... as we will have Writing in 5 turns

I would send them a PM and e-mail ... very simple ...

Stating that since we will be getting Writing very soon ... and that we also would like to assist them in their struggle and we detest aggression ... we will trade Wheel only for Writing ... and we want it sent at the very next turn with an accept ... (so we can do not lose the turn and can start researching a more juicy tech) ...

We can talk at leasure with them about philosophy and the free tech ...

Reason ... They need us more now that they are at war ...

ALSO ... We, in this letter, we have to tell them we have met KISS ... but say it is in good faith and friendship that we correct the information ... and maybe say you miss answered or something ...

 

[Meleager]

I hate to go against the crowd (again) but do we really know Doughnuts and TNT are at war?

"some folks with blue clothing are acting in a most unfriendly manner"

"just those blue-clad folks (Persia = TNT)"

"it will be interesting to see how they behave given the forum tone"

"given Rik's warning however I expect things to calm down a lot"

its obvious they dont get along but we must not jump to conclusions. We also told KISS we didn't get along well with D-nuts. Imagine if they assumed we were at war.

 

[fe3333au]

You forgot this one ...

Robi D , Foreign Affairs Consul of Doughnutia

secondly we had met the nation of TNT in our travels. We welcomed them with open arms to which they responded by trying to put a knife in our back. Rest assured we will punish their treachery severely, but I do advise you to be weary in your dealings with these warmongering fools if and when you meet them.

Although the word War is not used ... the language is extremely emotive ...

So if not at war ... good assumption is that it soon will be ...

good on being Devil's Advocate though ... an essential role

 

[Chamnix]

Couple thoughts…

I agree we should tell Donuts we met KISS. Kentharu said “no new contacts”. Perhaps our explanation could be that Kentharu thought we had already told them about KISS and was referring to TNT, but others seeing the chat pointed out we might not have even mentioned KISS yet, so we wanted to be sure we told them.

If they have Philosophy, then they have something else, but I don’t think they said what. Is it Code of Laws (my guess) or something else?

What are they researching now? My guess is Republic, and if true then that improves our bargaining position even more. Republic is very expensive – if they want a military tech then they have to trade with us, or lose the beakers they invested in Republic, or wait until Republic is complete which will be a while.

If KISS is only 3-4 turns from Writing, then even just the Wheel is now too much to give up for Writing. I would rather save the Wheel to get Philosophy. As a show of good faith, we could even give them the Wheel now in return for a promise that they will gift Philosophy as soon as we have Writing.

 

[fe3333au]

@Cham ... Good Thoughts ... Lets discuss more ...

So we have a number of options ... We must remember that we are in the position of power ... they either are at War or pending War ... and NO Military technologies ...

Therefore we should present the final proposal as a Take it or Leave it scenario ...

Factors

MIA
Have ... Warrior Code, Wheel, Ceremonial Burial, Iron Works
Researching ... Writing in 4

D-Nuts
Have ... Writing, Philosophy, Other
Researching ... ???

Cham Option
1. Tell them that we have almost completed Writing so no longer interested.
2. Want Philosophy as soon as we get Writing
3. Give Wheel now

Expanded Cham Option ... If the Other is something we want.
4. Want Other as soon as we get Writing
5. Give other tech(s) when Philosophy and Other delivered ...

I like this alot ... also on a minor note it does mean we get something from KISS and we support D-Nuts from being primaturely overrun by TNT ... and hopefully extend any war between them

 

[peter grimes]

I dont' have much to say on all this... I think we are moving in a good direction on this.

But a short word of Caution: I'm concerned that if we are too steely, we will come across to them the way they came across to us in the first meetings.

I don't think they'll give Philosophy for Wheel. Wheel and WC, plus info on what they are currently researching, might be more attractive to them.

 

[Chamnix]

I agree that we don't want to overplay our hand. We would like to make a deal somehow and continue positive relations.

On the other hand, I think Wheel and Warrior Code for Philosophy is a terrible deal for us. Wheel and Warrior Code combined are more expensive than Philosophy, and Philosophy is an empty tech that gives us nothing - Wheel and Warrior Code are immediately useful to them. We lose on all counts.

I really think the Wheel for Philosophy is a reasonable trade despite the relative tech prices considering the actual usefulness of each tech in the short-term. If they insist on equal tech costs, then the Wheel and Ceremonial Burial for Philosophy is a fair trade cost-wise, but I wouldn't even consider Wheel plus Warrior Code just for Philosophy.

 

[fe3333au]

After discussion with Ken ... I will draft a letter we should send to D-Nuts ... lets edit and send it off before next turn ...

Dear Members of the Doughnuts

In the spirit of trust and goodwill, we need to clear something up, during a discussion with DaveShack, our diplomat Kentharu inadvertedly misled you by saying that we have had no new contacts ... while technically correct ... we feel that you were possibly asking if we had met another team ... while we are not bound to correct or think from your point of view ... Kentharu has instructed us to clarify matters and reply honestly ... therefore the answer to contact is YES, we have met KISS ... what is our relationship? ... we do not want to give you a wrong impression, but you may recall who we had to turn to for Pottery ...

Next topic of technical trade ... due to the time taken for parley, Writing is no longer an option as we will have it very soon ...

I hope that you do not take this the wrong way ... but we feel that MIA is holding a better hand ... you have but to calculate yourselves ... how long it will take you to research all the military technology required for your UU ... found a city near the horse resource, road it and connect it to other cities ... all this before the first of your Horse Warriors can be started ... by that time you will surely have TNT Immortals at your doorsteps and probably stamping on your memory ...

Philosophy for us is not very interesting by itself as you would have already gained the free tech ...

So what we want from you is the name of the free technology that you received and also the current research ... This will be a goodwill gesture to match our contact information.

We are eager to assist you against an aggressor however will need to be offered a fair deal ...

We have been fair and honest and upfront and would like the same ...

Regards and eagerly awaiting a prompt reply

Wishing that sanity prevails


Emporer.Napoleon - Foreign Minister
Kentharu - Doughnut Ambassador
fe3333au - Foreign Affairs Scribe

 

[Kentharu]

greatness FE as per-usual (maybe i should start drafting to lol)
maybe put more emphasis on our eagerness to trade, makes it more polite
hopefully ill be able to have a little chat with D-nut soon, smooth out things because until we aren't going to war then we might as well be friends right?

 

[peter grimes]

In the spirit of trust and goodwill, we need to clear something up, during a discussion with DaveShack, our diplomat Kentharu inadvertedly misled you by saying that we have had no new contacts ... while technically correct ... we feel that you were possibly asking if we had met another team ... while we are not bound to correct or think from your point of view ... Kentharu has instructed us to clarify matters and reply honestly ... therefore the answer to contact is YES, we have met KISS ... what is our relationship? ... we do not want to give you a wrong impression, but you may recall who we had to turn to for Pottery ...


In the spirit of Trust and Goodwill [i simply love capitalized nouns!] we need to clear up a possible misunderstanding: During a discussion with DaveShack, our Ambassador mentioned that we had no new contact. His answer was technically correct, but as other members of MIA pointed out upon reviewing the chatlog, you are currently under the impression that we have no contacts. This is false. We met KISS some time ago. You may recall that we tried to trade with you for Pottery, and because that didn't go so well, we turned to KISS. As for our relationship with KISS, we don't want you to get the wrong impression.

@Fe: there are things I liked about your version of the intro paragraph, but I felt it was a little too self-conscious. I did like how 'Kentharu has told us to straighten this out..' but I didn't like some of the other 'excuses'. Anyway, just my thoughts....

 

[fe3333au]

Updated with Gimsey's input and a little bit of further tweeking ... want to leave Ken's directive in there ... they may misread and see it as a slight against our rep ... and I want no possibility of this happening ...

OT ... really like the new edit system

Dear Members of the Doughnuts

In the spirit of Trust and Goodwill, we need to clear up a possible misunderstanding:

During a discussion with DaveShack, our Ambassador Kentharu stated that we had made no new contacts. While his answer was technically correct, on reviewing the chatlog it became evident that it was misleading.

Ambassador Kentharu has instructed that this information be corrected prior to the commencement of official business. MIA have met KISS and it occured soon after our first contact with you. We do not want to give you a wrong impression, however one could easily surmise the type of relationship with KISS by remembering where MIA had to turn to for Pottery.

Next ... The topic of Technical Trade. Unfortunately due to the time taken for parley, Writing is now no longer an option as we will have it very soon.

I hope that you do not take this the wrong way, but we feel that MIA is holding a better hand. You have but to calculate yourselves, the time it would take you to research all the military technology required for your UU, found a city near a horse resource, road it and connect it to other cities and All this before the first of your Horse Warriors can begin training.

The figures paint an unacceptable scenario, we fear that by that time you have teched up, the Doughnuts will surely have TNT Immortals at your doorsteps and probably stamping on your memory.

Philosophy for us is not very interesting by itself as you would have already gained the free tech bonus.

So what we want from you is the name of the free technology that you received and also your current research. This will be a goodwill gesture to match our correction about contact information.

I hope that you can see that MIA is eager to assist you against an aggressor, however Doughnuts will need to offer a fair deal.

We have been fair and honest and upfront and now expect the same.


Regards and eagerly awaiting a prompt reply.

Wishing that sanity prevails.


Emperor.Napoleon - Foreign Minister
Kentharu - Doughnut Ambassador
Feaurius III - Foreign Affairs Scribe