~ D o m i n E a r t h i o n ~

[academia]

sorry, but is this the main issue?

I accepted Tigranes' capitulation but now I can't get my cities back because of this stupid 'feature' where vassals and masters can't exchange cities unless they are liberating them, and in the trading screen there are no cities available on either trade table. What do we do now? Turn on hold as Indonesia.

aren´t you trying to break the game´s mechanics/laws here? i´m not an expert in these vassalage features... but if "vassals and masters can´t exchange cities", shouldnt you have taken that into account during your player-to-player negotiations?

and now you are asking us to sign a 10-turn peace deal?

please let me know if i´m not getting this right

@Nighthawk and the rest: any comments on this?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

aren´t you trying to break the game´s mechanics/laws here? i´m not an expert in these vassalage features... but if "vassals and masters can´t exchange cities", shouldnt you have taken that into account during your player-to-player negotiations?

Actually they can exchange cities, but only when they are liberating them, but alas, that option doesn't appear for any cities in the diploscreen between Indonesia and Australia, and I even have a suspicion why: The liberation mechanic only takes into account which civ's capital a given city is closer to, and since Indonesia (and Pakistan for that matter) doesn't currently have a capital, being cityless and all, I suppose that messes up the algorithm as any city is infinitely closer to any capital of Tigranes' civs than to a place that doesn't exist. Looks like an oversight when they designed Requires Total Kills or whatever that option's name was to me. If Pakistan had only its capital left India could at least liberate that western city to it, but not Dhaka since Delhi is inbetween.

 

[academia]

i´m thinking out loud here...
can´t a scenario creator (or someone with the required knowledge) just edit the file and reassign the cities to the UN?

 

[Tigranes]

No, academia. Once game started -- no Worldbuilder can be used. We have to work out everything between us, and I explained Knoedel what to do. Basically you are the big winner here -- I was about to kick you out of my island and good luck with landing again. There would be no auto peace with you, but rather auto war with Knoedel (after this upcoming turn of yours).

 

[academia]

No, academia. Once game started -- no Worldbuilder can be used. We have to work out everything between us, and I explained Knoedel what to do. Basically you are the big winner here -- I was about to kick you out of my island and good luck with landing again. There would be no auto peace with you, but rather auto war with Knoedel (after this upcoming turn of yours).

are you sure about it? i´m not talking about the worldbuilder... arent there specific modding tools that can directly edit files without entering the civ4 game?

 

[Tigranes]

Not for Multiplayer files, never heard of them, almost positive none exist, files are ciphered design to prevent cheating.

 

[civ-addicted]

Wait, isn't being forcefed Vodka, Blini and Caviar part of the deal if you want to protect India?

 

[academia]

Not for Multiplayer files, never heard of them, almost positive none exist, files are ciphered design to prevent cheating.

ok then.
from your point of view, what´s the best way to proceed?

 

[Tigranes]

I have posted step by step solution. ..

 

[Nighthawk419]

I will not be agreeing to peace. As I've stated before, the UN has not even considered my demands or attempted to meet any of them. And if Tigranes vassals to Knoedel, we will consider that an act of treason and war and will treat them as our enemy. So no Knoedel, I will not agree to 10 turns of peace.

As for "broken mechanics" - I dont believe in this. There's a reason things happen the way they do. Theres no broken mechanics - Tigranes is trying to force a peace-vassalage which is different than a war-vassalage. The simple solution is this - Tigranes gifts the cities Knoedel wants along with his vassalage and peace and the game will accept everything as is. OR - Knoedel and Tigranes make peace and then sort out cities the next turn, THEN do the vassal movement and deal with the consequences. I'm not sure what the problem is here.

Lastly - Knoedel, don't you understand what he is doing here? He may be giving you back your cities, but by being a peace-vassal he will be able to break free from you at any time. He is using you as a human shield! He will drag you into a war with me and UNASAR (and maybe the USA) to buy himself some more time. If he somehow manages to win or stop the war, he will just build up enough troops and then break free from you and turn on you again.

Why do you want to vassal to him? I've told you all along I will liberate your cities and give you back what you had and more. He is offering you nothing but a few cities and war with half the world. And if you think I won't dust off the old nuclear warheads against a traitor, you are being silly.

 

[academia]

Lastly - Knoedel, don't you understand what he is doing here? He may be giving you back your cities, but by being a peace-vassal he will be able to break free from you at any time. He is using you as a human shield! He will drag you into a war with me and UNASAR (and maybe the USA) to buy himself some more time. If he somehow manages to win or stop the war, he will just build up enough troops and then break free from you and turn on you again.

I totally agree with you on that, but it´s obvious that Knoedel thinks otherwise and has already made his choice. Keep on talking about this issue is useless, from my point of view.

I have posted step by step solution. ..

Are you talking about that post with the 4 steps?
I read that, but then Knoedel mentions making peace with Russia and UNASUR? It seems to me that this wasnt included in your 4 steps solution, and that´s what´s confusing me

 

[Nighthawk419]

Are you talking about that post with the 4 steps?
I read that, but then Knoedel mentions making peace with Russia and UNASUR? It seems to me that this wasnt included in your 4 steps solution, and that´s what´s confusing me

Exactly - that is NOT part of the solution. I hope Knoedel doesnt think that accepting Tigranes as a vassal will force us all into peace, because that is 100% absolutely NOT true...

 

[Tigranes]

I read that, but then Knoedel mentions making peace with Russia and UNASUR? It seems to me that this wasnt included in your 4 steps solution, and that´s what´s confusing me

4-step solution describes settling our affairs only. BEFORE that Knoedel erroneously assumed that game mechanics will enforce auto peace for 10 turns the moment I capitulate to him. This is only partially true -- auto peace will be enforced by the game, but not for 10 turns. You guys would be able to declare on Knoedel right away!

In short if we could trade cities AFTER capitulation we would only benefit from short peace. Of course Knoedel wants permanent peace (and I support my new master) .

 

[academia]

4-step solution describes settling our affairs only. BEFORE that Knoedel erroneously assumed that game mechanics will enforce auto peace for 10 turns the moment I capitulate to him. This is only partially true -- auto peace will be enforced by the game, but not for 10 turns. You guys would be able to declare on Knoedel right away!

ok, i guess we could try your solution then.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

You're all being stupid. You know what, I ragequit. Go find a replacement for me, I don't even care anymore.

 

[Tigranes]

...

 

[academia]

You're all being stupid. You know what, I ragequit. Go find a replacement for me, I don't even care anymore.

we all know that this is a wargame, and sometimes we do/say things that could make someone´s blood boil... but could you please reconsider?
it´s a very complex game, and might be hard to find a replacement at this point of the war.

 

[Tigranes]

You're all being stupid. You know what, I ragequit. Go find a replacement for me, I don't even care anymore.

Spoiler :

Le me handle this, academia

Link to video.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

What, this guy's got a problem with slavery? But it's so obvious that dragons are an inferior race and they should actually be happy that the glorious Pony Nation lets them stay alive at all!

Seriously though, what's this guy's whining got to do with anything?

 

[Tigranes]

Uhmm, it's psychology, bro. Allows me to be more effective when I ask: what does anything got to do with you quitting? Can we continue this in skype, otherwise academia may get even more confused.