Dainiji Sekai Taisen

[kobayashi]

In my latest iteration I reached 1942 before I had to start again. Its quite close to being ready for beta testing and nicely balanced in terms of China. Sounds have been more or less finalized with unit slots shifted to accomodate them. The only thing I am not sure of is the pace and effectiveness of the Allied buildup post 42. Along the way I've been adding new bits and pieces and redoing the terrain surrounding some cities to make them viable.

examples -

I am using nuclear plant as POW labour. It is very cheap and low maintenance but I've swapped the fusion power tech out of the ech tree so there can be 'breakouts' when ever a city is in civil disorder. The 'nuclear testing is alarming' has been reworded to say 'your treatment of POWs is appalling'.

You start off with Adam Smith and it expires to simulate the oil and iron embargo. Thereafter you need to switch several cities to capitalization and keep capturing cities just to make ends meet.

You can't build infantry units as they are provided via a repeating events so this acts as a limiting factor cause you need to leave a garrison of two or three to keep things under control in newly acquired cities.

Also last night I retrofitted Eivind's Labelle cities into the scenario to see what how it would look like. As I predicted, it is visually more appealing but less functional as you need to refer to the colour of the city names to distinguish the area you control. I'll get round to posting some comparative screen shots in a while.

 

[kobayashi]

I don't know why I can't get the images to display. Just right click and chose open in a new window to view and compare the two.

 

[kobayashi]

Please (Eivind this means you) replace the following files (please note you'll have to rename DST.sav to DST.scn.

Its a fix which stops the brits from attacking the Chinese and the Dutch from attacking the Americans.

(files redundant and removed)

 

[Eivind IV]

All of the observations are ment in a good manner, so don't misunderstand anything if it sounds like critisism

MISC OBSERVATIONS:
* The name for the scen is very little practical, taken into account the number of native English speakers out there who can't pronounce anything but English words What does it mean btw?
* Resources has the vanilla civ names. They should be renamed after what terrain they represent.
* You should rename the governments
* Why is Adolf Hitler on the Devine Emperor wonder icon?
* Foundary is misspelled. It's Foundry.

GAME OBSERVATIONS:
* You should seriously consider adding fortifications in all cities from start, and tweak unit stats thereafter. Cities are razed like there was no tomorrow. The alternative is to raise city sizes for all cities drasticly, which would again meamn tweaking cities again.
* Please introduce higher movement for ships. I never liked those ZWK naval movements. It takes many in game years to cross the ocean. It's too slow and boring. At least for such a big ocean as the Pacific. also, planes, should be increased together with the ships. Also, when the Carrier era comes, the ships move at a completely rediculous 2 and 3. Please kobe, raise the movement! Also, maybe more variety in movement for destroyers, cruisers and battleships etc?
* Should all cities be able to build ships? I find it unlikely they have heavy naval industries on tiny Pacific islands.
* Shore bombardment is very effective.
* The allies sneak attacked me in July 1937.
* Maybe to spice things up, replace rivers with ocean, as I did in Bk1936 v3. It removes the unrealistic movement multiplier and introduces strategic river crossings.
* How many Chinese cities must I capture in order to get some resources? I havn't gotten anyone yet.
* What's up with the storm unit? I don't think this fits in for this scenario. It makes sense in RoN, but we're talking about robust modern steel ships here.
* The Claude A5M is useless in ground attacks, as seem its Chinese counterpart. Would it be an idea to have a ground attack aircraft from the start?
* I like the new feature for tanks. The Alpine ability instead of movement 2. It reduces the major Blitz factor.
* The chinesese has three times more cash than the Americans. Is this intended?
* Change name for Barbarians in the game.txt
* The riot factor is very high. Cities go very often into disorder and they never get content until the city is in hunger modus. Maybe some more happy improvements in cities from start?
* Listening posts is not revealed. What are the listening posts good for really?
* Japanese(P) changed its government to despotism.
* I seem to get regular infantry by events, but do I ever get marines? They rock with their movement 2 and relatively hig attack.
* There should be some airbases here and there. At least on the pacific island with no cities.
* The Allied navy is very weak. The Dutch navy alone outnumber them.


I like this scenario a lot Kobe, but I feel it is held back by, for instance the low movement for planes and ships. It's also pretty annoying the cities are razed this much. All in all, I'd say you've done a great job, with exiting innovative features as always in your scens. But some innovations isn't always for the better. The cities for instance. They simply don't appeal to me. I couldn't play with them I'm afraid so I knocked up some new cities made by curt for myself. You might want to consider using these, as they look amazing in my opinion. If not, then at least keep them in the zip. so the player himself can chose to use it or not.

I'd love to be of more help. Anything I can do?

 

[kobayashi]

* You should seriously consider adding fortifications in all cities from start, and tweak unit stats thereafter. Cities are razed like there was no tomorrow.

I never razed a single city in 20 games? You did the razing or the AI?

* Please introduce higher movement for ships. I never liked those ZWK naval movements. It takes many in game years to cross the ocean. It's too slow and boring. At least for such a big ocean as the Pacific. also, planes, should be increased together with the ships. Also, when the Carrier era comes, the ships move at a completely rediculous 2 and 3. Please kobe, raise the movement!

Maybe I'll add one movement to all the ships. For a naval carrier scenario you need to have it this way. The rationale for doing this takes too long to explain in detail but there'll be no battles and less chance of interception if ships can just zip back and forth.

* Also, maybe more variety in movement for destroyers, cruisers and battleships etc?

No all ships have the same speed more or less between 28 to 32 knots

* Should all cities be able to build ships? I find it unlikely they have heavy naval industries on tiny Pacific islands.

Ships cost too much to be built on the tiny islands. If i disallow the coastal flag, they won't be able to have fishing docks and will starve. Besides, ships should not be your limiting factor, it should be the lack of land units, see comment about rioting.

* The allies sneak attacked me in July 1937.

Did you sneak attack the chinese? That will make the U.S. attitude jump to 100 immediately.

did you use the patched files or just played straight out from the zip?

* How many Chinese cities must I capture in order to get some resources? I havn't gotten anyone yet.

Nanchang is the only resource creating city but Seoul is another city where resources can appear.

* What's up with the storm unit? I don't think this fits in for this scenario. It makes sense in RoN, but we're talking about robust modern steel ships here.

I have some reserve slots (this one plus the jungle raider) for higher versions.

* The Claude A5M is useless in ground attacks, as seem its Chinese counterpart. Would it be an idea to have a ground attack aircraft from the start?

I did think about having dive bombers from the beginning but there is really no point with the Nell available. The Val is kept back a little as a disincentive to start the pacific war too early.

* The chinesese has three times more cash than the Americans. Is this intended?

Yes, so you can get gold everytime you capture a chinese city.

* Change name for Barbarians in the game.txt

Have not actually started work on the text yet.

* The riot factor is very high. Cities go very often into disorder and they never get content until the city is in hunger modus. Maybe some more happy improvements in cities from start?

This is intentional, nobody like to have the japs come in. You must keep three units in every city and spend time building cinema and army brothel.

How many % you allocated to happiness?

* Listening posts is not revealed. What are the listening posts good for really?

This listenng posts are Japanese(P) cities, they consume the Allied units until war starts so there is no sneak attack (unless you sneak attack the chinese)

* Japanese(P) changed its government to despotism.

This was an oversight, I put the Japanese(P) into anarchy to see if it would stay that way with the no government change flag on.

* I seem to get regular infantry by events, but do I ever get marines? They rock with their movement 2 and relatively hig attack.

The marines appear in Tokyo automatically too, you mean you didn't receive single one?

* There should be some airbases here and there. At least on the pacific island with no cities.

Yes, I will get round to doing that

* The Allied navy is very weak. The Dutch navy alone outnumber them.

Again this is done to prevent sneak attack

 

[kobayashi]

Can I have some more basic details first like -

what year in the game you are

where did you attack and when.

how was the Ai resisting and at what point did you notice new AI units

 

[Eivind IV]

I never razed a single city in 20 games? You did the razing or the AI?

I did the razing, and I've razed almost all cities I've captured. Especially the Pacific islands. Almost all your cities are under size 5. It's certain cities will perish when sizes are this low without forts. That's always been a problem in ZWK as well.

Maybe I'll add one movement to all the ships. For a naval carrier scenario you need to have it this way. The rationale for doing this takes too long to explain in detail but there'll be no battles and less chance of interception if ships can just zip back and forth.

You leave very little room for manouverability this way. It takes an annoying eternity to jump from island to island. The way it is now, if I ever were to intercept any flotillas, it would be all by chance.

No all ships have the same speed more or less between 28 to 32 knots

Very well.

Ships cost too much to be built on the tiny islands. If i disallow the coastal flag, they won't be able to have fishing docks and will starve. Besides, ships should not be your limiting factor, it should be the lack of land units, see comment about rioting.

You know you can disalow selected cities to produce ships, and at the same time they can build coastal improvements? You can do so with CivCity.

Did you sneak attack the chinese? That will make the U.S. attitude jump to 100 immediately.

Of course I sneak attacked the Chinese

did you use the patched files or just played straight out from the zip?

Patched files? I played with the ones you PMed.

Nanchang is the only resource creating city but Seoul is another city where resources can appear.

Hmm, ok. I never saw any though, but I only played for 9 turns.

This is intentional, nobody like to have the japs come in. You must keep three units in every city and spend time building cinema and army brothel.

How many % you allocated to happiness?

30%

This listenng posts are Japanese(P) cities, they consume the Allied units until war starts so there is no sneak attack (unless you sneak attack the chinese)

It's a good idea, but won't they continue to bash on at the extremly powerful Army Reserves even after the war breaks out?

* I seem to get regular infantry by events, but do I ever get marines? They rock with their movement 2 and relatively hig attack.

The marines appear in Tokyo automatically too, you mean you didn't receive single one?

Not a single one. I'm in september 1937.

(...)Dutch navy alone(...)Again this is done to prevent sneak attack

But the Allies can't hold the Japs back with nothing. From turn 1 I moved my ships in the direction of the US coast, as I knew it would take years to cross the water. Once there, I captured San Fransico. You should make the ships homed from San Fran NONE. They lost a carrier, a cruiser and a sub due to that attack.

 

[kobayashi]

This is quite interesting the way you're testing the scenario.

firstly, the patch files are in post 43 in this thread.

The pop up windows already specifically warn you not to sneak attack the chinese and not to fight the U.S. before the proper preparations. The Allies automatically get the prerequisite for all their advanced units immediately while you still have to wait to 1940. You are doomed to defeat now. I suppose that's how you got to the carrier era in just 9 turns, by losing a capital ship. Well that's the way its meant to be too.

I thought there was an invincible unit in all the major U.S. cities. Looks like I'll have to make all the Army Reserve Units veteran in the US coast to make them even stronger. I can't make them any stronger via the stats or the AI will refuse to attack them in the listening posts. Can you tell me specifically how you killed the Army Reserve unit and how many units it required.

You just need to naval bombard the pacific island cities till they are empty and then just move one infantry in. Knowing full well that there is no way to build new cities, if you choose tactics that raze the cities, then that is to your disadvantage.

Resource units appear at random with a probability of 5-10% per turn. But there are a lot of resource cities.

At a certain time, terrain change events will wipe out the listening posts.

Well you might as well keep playing and let me how the AI reacts. If you some how manage to win anyway, I'll have to make the 'punishments' for not following the proper time-line even more stringent.

 

[Eivind IV]

It's not a matter of tactics when many cities have size 1 right off the bat. Give them at least size 2 so cities can be captured after bombardment.

 

[kobayashi]

ah I forgot you are already attacking them in 1937. By 1940, they are all much bigger.

Keep going, hope you destroy the arrogant Allies(E).

 

[Eivind IV]

Started over again with the suggested playing style.

The unaligned sneak attacked on May '37. Emptied Karafuto and RAZED Nomonhan on the first attack, only to offer a peace treaty. Which I accepted of course.

The Allies develop one new tech each turn. After only a couple of turns they developed Twentieth Century. Is this intended as well?

Also this time the Allies sneak attacked me in september. And I didn't even touch the Chinese, exept the warlords.

This time also I was able to kill an army reserve unit with a battleship. And now it was regular. The attack was on Pearl Harbor. Btw, Harbour is the UK English version. In American it's Harbor.

I used the opertunity to declare war on China and take some land from the Allies. The Brits havn't showed any initiative what-so-ever. The Americans have sporadicly attacked me here and there, but mostly it's been a walk in the park. I've invaded australia with ease, I've capture all Pacific island, including Pearl Harbor. I'm currently preparing for an attack on mainland USA, which I expect will be fairly easy. Take a look yourself in the attached sav.

I have to say that my first try went more smootly. All China has done now is making it harder for me to invade, as they now have Flaks in all cities and a decent airforce. The Allies also rush build flaks like maniacs every turn.

I really hope you'll remove the storm unit. I lost a freighter packed with expensive materials to a storm.

And then the unalgined sneak attacked me again in January 38. I captured Vladivostok to shut them up.

Another observation: I can't go through the zones of the other Jap cities. In order to pass those cities I must ship them. Instead of shipping them I emptied the city to pass. You should reveal the map from the cheat menu before the release. Many cities arn't revealed. Such as the Russian cities in Siberia and the Listening Posts.

In april '38 I get the message the Allies and all the other AI civs have signed peace with the Jap(P) civ.

In May '38 the first resource unit appeard in Seol. The next one came in july.

Take a look at the save to see what I've done

 

[kobayashi]

The Allies develop one new tech each turn. After only a couple of turns they developed Twentieth Century. Is this intended as well?

That's the trouble with the Marco Polo Wonder, you get to see all this nonsense. I guess I'll have to rename Twentieth Century to something more appropriate or just give it to them outright.

Also this time the Allies sneak attacked me in september. And I didn't even touch the Chinese, exept the warlords.

That means I have to do further work on this. Did you stay clear of them or park your ships outside their ports? Can you suggest anything that would make them not sneak attack?

I really hope you'll remove the storm unit. I lost a freighter packed with expensive materials to a storm.

Yes storm can kill planes and freighters but warships can survive easily. Seems like Japs are too powerful anyway.

Another observation: I can't go through the zones of the other Jap cities. In order to pass those cities I must ship them. Instead of shipping them I emptied the city to pass.

You need to park units outside the ports to allow easy passage. Actually you can repossess one of them as suggested by the starting message. If you empty the cities, they won't be able to accept supplies, they'll just be repossessed or razed.

In april '38 I get the message the Allies and all the other AI civs have signed peace with the Jap(P) civ.

Yep a bug I can't get rid of related to the no negotiations, but if you check they are still at war.

p.s.

When you say the Brits are passive, does that mean they didn't activate alliance and declare war on Japs?

Do you think if the Defending U.S. units in the west coast were veteran and fortified (they have zero movement so I'll have to cheat fortify them) giving (i believe) a defence double of what your facing now, would you still attack the west coast and Hawaii?

 

[Eivind IV]

That means I have to do further work on this. Did you stay clear of them or park your ships outside their ports? Can you suggest anything that would make them not sneak attack?

I parked my ships outside their cities, but does that have any effect on the AI? If you ask another AI to remove their units from their territory, the naval units always stay put.

Yes storm can kill planes and freighters but warships can survive easily. Seems like Japs are too powerful anyway.

I't really annoying, and not very fun.

When you say the Brits are passive, does that mean they didn't activate alliance and declare war on Japs?

I mean I never saw any British units, exept a random destroyer or cruiser in the Indian Sea.

Do you think if the Defending U.S. units in the west coast were veteran and fortified (they have zero movement so I'll have to cheat fortify them) giving (i believe) a defence double of what your facing now, would you still attack the west coast and Hawaii?

A veteran Nagato can easily take out a veteran Army Reserve Unit, and gaining vet status for the BB is no sweat as they get vet after any won battle.

 

[kobayashi]

I parked my ships outside their cities, but does that have any effect on the AI? If you ask another AI to remove their units from their territory, the naval units always stay put.

yes it does annoy them, I've tested it.

In any case you've amply proven that the Allies are too weak so I suggest you abandon your game until I make some changes to strengthen them. Fortunately I left some event space just for this purpose. Will provide a patch for the beta in due course. Also, I just realized I reversed the sequence of AI spawning points by accident so I'll have to fix that too. Other events like Force 136 and Chindits will be added as well. stay tuned.

In the meanwhile, your city set is good stuff. The only thing I think needs changing is the walls, can you do something to make them more apparent.

 

[kobayashi]

I have checked, with the Army Reserve units fortified and veteran, a Naga battleship does not even make a dent. With a veteran Naga battleship, it barely goes to yellow. So there is no need to make any major adjustments to the U.S. West Coast and the next iteration of test files should be available sooner than I thought.

I am going to focus my beefing-up efforts on Australia and India, which is presumably where the Jap player will turn to.

 

[kobayashi]

OK, hopefully this fixes some of the problems mentioned (and even some not).
Eivind you'll be pleased to know that ship movement has been increased by 1 and typhoon is gone.

Again, for beta testers only. The rest of you be patient.

 

[Kylie]

Glad to be one of the testers, kobi-san.

Hope to post some comments soon.

 

[Kylie]

Just played until Feb 1938. Got the coastal cities of China. And got the message that I should attack all the Chinese cities soon. I'm going to attack Nanking but I am running out of land units for the attack.

Found that Infantry and Marine are very useful both in defending and attacking. However, these units can be produced.

Injured land units become fully recovered when it entered the enemy city. I wonder it is a bug or it could be a little trick to get your unit recovered to defend any immediate revenge.

I accidentally destroyed Matsue and Sendai. Does it matter?

Though I built cinemas in most cities, I still have the problem of civil unrest. But News Agency would be too costly for small cities.

 

[kobayashi]

Injured land units become fully recovered when it entered the enemy city. I wonder it is a bug or it could be a little trick to get your unit recovered to defend any immediate revenge.

This is the standard civ mechanism

I accidentally destroyed Matsue and Sendai. Does it matter?

Yes, your entire trade network is destroyed, you'll have to reload from before they were destroyed.

Though I built cinemas in most cities, I still have the problem of civil unrest. But News Agency would be too costly for small cities.

Station 3 units with attack >1 to reduce unhappiness. Too bad, you're japan and you don't have a limitless population.

 

[kobayashi]

BTesters,

a minor mistake was discoverd which left the HellDiver a helicopter. Please open up the rules.txt and replace this line

HellDiver, nil, 1, 5.,0, 11a,2d, 1h,1f, 5,0, 0, Plu, 000000000000000


WITH THIS LINE

HellDiver, nil, 1, 5.,2, 11a,2d, 1h,1f, 5,0, 0, Plu, 000000000000000