Dawn of Civilization General Discussion
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
Tigranes
Armenian
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- Sep 11, 2008
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So it's 1830s and Brazilian Rifleman attacks Portuguese Worker, which turns him into Slave unit. Highly undesirable mechanics. Any nation with Christianity (any of its confessions) or Secularism should not be able to generate "white" slaves -- meaning the only source must be Africa. Asian slaves are fair game though, up until the beginning of 20th century there were some slaves in China, for example...
Malchar
Prince
The worker's nationality of Portugese cannot inform you about his or her race.
Tigranes
Armenian
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Then it has to be severely discouraged by the game. But the reality is -- enslaving enemy civilians (Workers) was not practiced by Christian states ever since Classical Era. In 19th century it looks like broken mechanics.
Workers represent free civilian population trained by the European civ. Trained, and not acquired from Africa. In terms of our game -- race would not be detrimental, but the manner in which the unit has been created will.
The way the game communicates that is via stability penalties. Of which Slavery already gets plenty by the 19th century, plus additional ones if you are Christian.
ezzlar
Emperor
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- Dec 21, 2001
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I checked the git version, very impressive new tech and civic system. Might take a while to understand.
Still a bit confused about the Central Planning civic. In the civic description it clearly states that the state controls production and that there are no private companies and no trade. This is not surprising since the state can only set prices in a closed economy. If free trade was allowed all prices set by the state would deviate to world market prices, either causing the economy to crash or turning into free market.
So, should there be trade routes at all under Central Planning? Staying true to its meaning I would say no. But there can still be internal "trade" between regions inside the economy when transferring resources. "No external trade routes" would therefor be sensible. To compensate, add coin bonus to mines or something.
Otherwise at a first glance, the other civics look good. The economy ones are very much about getting less out of trade routes or getting more out of trade routes. More aspects would be interesting.
Still a bit confused about the Central Planning civic. In the civic description it clearly states that the state controls production and that there are no private companies and no trade. This is not surprising since the state can only set prices in a closed economy. If free trade was allowed all prices set by the state would deviate to world market prices, either causing the economy to crash or turning into free market.
So, should there be trade routes at all under Central Planning? Staying true to its meaning I would say no. But there can still be internal "trade" between regions inside the economy when transferring resources. "No external trade routes" would therefor be sensible. To compensate, add coin bonus to mines or something.
Otherwise at a first glance, the other civics look good. The economy ones are very much about getting less out of trade routes or getting more out of trade routes. More aspects would be interesting.
I think a closed economy is already well represented by the isolationism civic.
Also the classic "central planning" civs did not really ban international trade, it was just not as important than in market economies but that's already represented by missing out on the free enterprise bonus.
Also the classic "central planning" civs did not really ban international trade, it was just not as important than in market economies but that's already represented by missing out on the free enterprise bonus.
Centrally planned economies were often very much interested in international trade, and why wouldn't they? It just wasn't "free trade", instead importation and exportation of goods was managed via state controlled organisations. So external trade routes are quite possible, maybe just not as productive / as many as under free trade? Since Free Trade gives a bonus to trade routes, I can see a number of possible changes for Central Planning.
Edit: look up the name Schalck-Golodkowski for more information
Edit: look up the name Schalck-Golodkowski for more information
Last edited:
Genghis Khaiser
King
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- Aug 10, 2012
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- 701
Germany's old UP was awesome. I recently played an awesome game with it:
-I started out as Holy Rome, founded Warsaw, Königsberg (Memel but renamed), and Hamburg. Built a massive army but concentrated it on Germany, I gave all my money to the newly born Prussia, switched to it and was unstoppable. I conquered France in 1870, when I had already conquered all of Northern and Central Europe and Italy. I'll miss the ability to upgrade for free.
-I started out as Holy Rome, founded Warsaw, Königsberg (Memel but renamed), and Hamburg. Built a massive army but concentrated it on Germany, I gave all my money to the newly born Prussia, switched to it and was unstoppable. I conquered France in 1870, when I had already conquered all of Northern and Central Europe and Italy. I'll miss the ability to upgrade for free.
trevor
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2002
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- 266
Congrats, Leo!
Cosmos1985
King
Something is completely broken with Chinese tech speed in the latest Git version, and I mean completely - in 300-something AD they were still researching the tech that reveals iron, and they had 227 turns remaining to get it.
Does secularism enable the ability to build wonders of non-state religions (if present in the city) or is that function no longer in the game?
Does secularism enable the ability to build wonders of non-state religions (if present in the city) or is that function no longer in the game?
Cosmos1985
King
A couple of minor comments and questions:
- The +1 food pr. specialist for Republic seems quite strong, even with the malus to cottage growth - it depends a bit on the civ and how dependant they are on cottages obviously, but yeah. A human player could abuse it quite a bit with the wonder that gives +1 food for priests as well, but I guess we can abuse a lot of things no matter what the setup is.
- With regards to Samarqand, would it be wildly ahistorical to have it spawn (in a 3000BC game) 1 tile west of where it spawns now? I was btw a bit confused that the Greeks have historical green tiles both north and south of it, but not Samarqand specifically, that is red to them - it's red surrounded by green. Is that a conscious decision?
- Barb galleys (called Norse in-game) spawns too early in European waters, I've seen them in 2-300 AD. There shouldn't be a lot of Viking ships rampaging at that time, as far as I'm aware.
- What is meant to be the counter for pikemen? Do they really need 100% bonus against all melee, how about just 50%? They appear OP to me.
- I may be nitpicking here (read: I probably am), but shouldn't the Isolation civic text rather say that you get one plus specialist in each core city? When first reading it I thought that it was your capital that gained a specialist pr core city, but I may just be stupid.
- What are the current rules for the expiration of the TC corp? Was there a certain tech that preventing it from spreading further to your cities after you researched it, or how is it?
- When I compare the Dutch starting situation in the 1700AD scenario with a spawn from a 600AD start, it seems nigh-on impossible to reach what is supposed to be the historical situation in 1700 in that timeframe. Even if you are lucky and the other Euros have left you the colony spots you want to build, I don't see how it's possible to get the beakers and production you need for the relevant techs, buildings, and settlers. Even if I have a perfect game and everything falls my way, and nobody attacks, you have no change of getting enough production in Amsterdam to build the TC national wonder early enough given how fast you are able to get the tech. They could use some help somehow if they are supposed to reach their historical situation.
- The +1 food pr. specialist for Republic seems quite strong, even with the malus to cottage growth - it depends a bit on the civ and how dependant they are on cottages obviously, but yeah. A human player could abuse it quite a bit with the wonder that gives +1 food for priests as well, but I guess we can abuse a lot of things no matter what the setup is.
- With regards to Samarqand, would it be wildly ahistorical to have it spawn (in a 3000BC game) 1 tile west of where it spawns now? I was btw a bit confused that the Greeks have historical green tiles both north and south of it, but not Samarqand specifically, that is red to them - it's red surrounded by green. Is that a conscious decision?
- Barb galleys (called Norse in-game) spawns too early in European waters, I've seen them in 2-300 AD. There shouldn't be a lot of Viking ships rampaging at that time, as far as I'm aware.
- What is meant to be the counter for pikemen? Do they really need 100% bonus against all melee, how about just 50%? They appear OP to me.
- I may be nitpicking here (read: I probably am), but shouldn't the Isolation civic text rather say that you get one plus specialist in each core city? When first reading it I thought that it was your capital that gained a specialist pr core city, but I may just be stupid.
- What are the current rules for the expiration of the TC corp? Was there a certain tech that preventing it from spreading further to your cities after you researched it, or how is it?
- When I compare the Dutch starting situation in the 1700AD scenario with a spawn from a 600AD start, it seems nigh-on impossible to reach what is supposed to be the historical situation in 1700 in that timeframe. Even if you are lucky and the other Euros have left you the colony spots you want to build, I don't see how it's possible to get the beakers and production you need for the relevant techs, buildings, and settlers. Even if I have a perfect game and everything falls my way, and nobody attacks, you have no change of getting enough production in Amsterdam to build the TC national wonder early enough given how fast you are able to get the tech. They could use some help somehow if they are supposed to reach their historical situation.
Cosmos1985
King
I tried running 5 test starts today, all with everything as default setting expect the game speed, which was epic - 3000BC scenario NL starts. In 3 of 5 games Thai got the conquerors and what's worse: not a single Euro colony anywhere in any of the starts. Great for a Dutch player obviously, but it looks like the European colonizers doesn't do well enough. I'm aware that the game is balanced around the normal game speed, but yeah.
