Dawn of Civilization v1.12 Discussion

[Tigranes]

How many land tiles does our map have?

 

[merijn_v1]

Total tiles: 124 * 68 = 8432
Water tiles: 5202
Land tiles: 8432 - 5202 = 3230 (Does include peaks)

 

[Tigranes]

Cool, thank you. It is nice to see that land tiles make around 1/3 of total (well more like 39% vs 29% in real life, close enough).


I am still stuck with Persia, trying to figure out if it is even theoretically possible to control 8% without collapsing.

8% makes 258 tiles, including peaks. I counted 101 (3% of total with peaks) non-peak tiles marked as core, historical, and contested for Persia. Game demands from the player to control 2.5 times more foreign tiles than native tiles. Why? Where this 8% came from, to begin with? Why not 9 or 7, or 10? Did this all start in Vanila RFC? I think someone looked up Achaemenid Empire in Wikipedia, saw it was 8 millions of square kilometers (not %), overlooked that it makes only 5.36% of World's total land area, and since then infamous 8% just stayed in the books. I mean just compare this

Spoiler :

Not shown but actually Babylon's Marble tile is currently Foreign for Persia. Go figure

with this:

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Hm, you've got a point, Persia is almost as underrated as Watermills.

...

Saaaaayyyyy, anybody want me to make another rebalance modmod?

 

[citis]

8% is too much. When I play as Persia I control from Indian peninsula to Greece, and from Blakhash to Niewt-rst. But the new mechanics might make it a little impossible.

6% may be better (or 5.5% but I don't like the fullstop).

 

[Leoreth]

Okay, making this post mainly to acknowledge the Persia topic. Because without looking at it myself I can't really say a lot that is well founded.

From a gameplay perspective, 8% of territory is fine as far as challenge goes. Historical accuracy is not that important because it can always be justified as a "surpass history" goal, such as trying to establish control over Greece, or as an alt-hist scenario, Upper Egypt or the Indus Valley. Furthermore, the 8% take into account that you are generally expected to control all cities within the historically conquered area, but in game their culture usually allows you to cover more.

Their stability may be problematic, I cannot say much about this without trying it myself. Fixing missing plots is something I can do, and there is some argument for making Lower Egypt historical. But certainly not Greece proper.

 

[DC123456789]

I think at least Egypt should be historical. You could also make the case for Thrace and a bit more of the Indus Valley, but that's somewhat less important.

 

[calad]

Areas under Cyrus should be historical. Other areas Persia controlled only very short time before Alexander thrashed them.

 

[Tigranes]

Okay, making this post mainly to acknowledge the Persia topic. Because without looking at it myself I can't really say a lot that is well founded.

From a gameplay perspective, 8% of territory is fine as far as challenge goes. Historical accuracy is not that important because it can always be justified as a "surpass history" goal, such as trying to establish control over Greece, or as an alt-hist scenario, Upper Egypt or the Indus Valley. Furthermore, the 8% take into account that you are generally expected to control all cities within the historically conquered area, but in game their culture usually allows you to cover more.
.

I suggest you do a simple test. Just give Persia all you think reasonably surpassing history and check F8. 6% at most. For 8% one needs 2 cities with 500 culture in Siberia. Which brings me back to the original question: why specifically 8, not 9 or 7? People did 8 with old rules, especially old UP. Persia has seen a lot of changes but players still tasked with vanila RFC 8%.

 

[Leoreth]

As I said, it's a conquest challenge, not a stability challenge. 8% works from that perspective. Stability can be balanced to accomodate separately.

 

[Pavel Chichikov]

Areas under Cyrus should be historical. Other areas Persia controlled only very short time before Alexander thrashed them.

If you consider a few centuries a "very short time" ok. Achaemenid Empire was far more stable and long-lasting than say, the Rashidun/Ummayad Caliphates. There's very little evidence for any kind of central control in the early Islamic Empires, actually. Especially considering within the Empire, probably less than 15% was Persian; there were in fact much fewer Persians than Greeks in classical times.

 

[citis]

Maybe change the UB of Persians. The current UB isn't needed for UHV. Moreover, its name is greek which is quite strange.

So the new UB I propose: Satrap's palace
*replaces courthouse
*requires monarchy
*60 (half of ordinary courthouse)
*(other effects remain the same)
*(if courthouses don't produce stability bonuses, the Satrap's palace halfs the stability maluses of the city).

 

[Tigranes]

I actually do like current UB a lot, makes Persia proper very different for Persia/Iran and for other civs!

Extra Settler for more populated core could be nice, as well as Egypt and Indus Valley to be historical. By now I failed close to 20 games as Persia and never once did I have time for another settler. If you don't kill Greece things get real messy, with bunch of enemy units here and there, one has to push to Europe from turn one to get there on time.

 

[The Diocletian]

Razed cities still leave behind culture.

See attached save, south my Egyptian possessions, are tiles of native culture when no native city is present.

edit: How embarrassing, this is supposed to be in the Bug Reports thread...

 

[Leoreth]

Only on the original city tile, or elsewhere as well?

 

[The Diocletian]

Usually it's just the razed city tile, but in the case in my saved game it's several seemingly random tiles.

 

[DC123456789]

More of a vanilla question than anything else, but does producing more gold from commerce increase how much inflation you get?

 

[Fresol]

I believe not, though I don't have proof. There are civ-specific inflation rate modifiers.

My question: does the Sistine Chapel provide for non-Catholic state religion buildings?

 

[Leoreth]

More of a vanilla question than anything else, but does producing more gold from commerce increase how much inflation you get?

No, inflation only increases over time, and with your population/empire size I think.

 

[Fresol]

No, inflation only increases over time, and with your population/empire size I think.

Where can I find the related code? I'm very interested in knowing the relating factors to inflation.