DDD VII: Napoleon

[Doshin]

Hello All,

This is the seventh map in what (I hope) will be a series of high level games for those of us who, some seven years after Civ IV’s initial release, are still coming to terms with the dark arts required to emerge victorious on the game’s toughest difficulty settings.

In general, I will try to post a series of fairly short updates on a fairly frequent basis. But, since real life has a habit of intervening, I may have to take the occasional break.

Players of all levels and abilities are welcome to shadow, ask questions, challenge my logic, and prove me wrong. I am a so-so player at this level. Don’t be surprised if I lose here and in future games.

If you should wish to shadow, you are welcome to post your own game in this thread. However, I would ask that you use spoiler tags to hide any details that relate to your particular game. Questions of an exceedingly general nature (e.g. “When should I build the Oracle?”) are fine.

In case you were wondering, DDD stands for "Doshin's Deity Den." I'm a simple guy, so alliteration appeals to me.

DDD VII

Deity; Hemispheres; Random # of islands; No Huts, No Events; Normal speed/opponents/settings. Random leader.

After the last game resulted in a bloody nose, I considered playing a standard Pangaea affair. But I wanted to add a different map type to the series' collection. In the end I settled on Hemispheres. Hemispheres with a random number of islands should give fairly equal land distributions, and could range from the very difficult (isolated or semi-isolated with an aggressive neighbor) to more straightforward (several neighbors, all good guys).

Our leader is...

Napoleon!

Napoleon has two strong traits:

Organized. Civic upkeep reduced 50 percent. Double production speed of Lighthouse, Factory, and Courthouse.
Charismatic. +1 per city. -25% experience needed for unit promotions. +1 from Monument and Broadcast Tower

I've not thought particularly hard about how much or how little Organized offers in the way of economic gains. The short story is that it makes early expansion a little cheaper and easier. Double production for three important buildings is also useful, especially since the Hemispheres map type will require numerous Lighthouses.

Charismatic makes an appearance for the second game running. As I said with Lincoln, this seems to be the default trait for buffing leaders of civilizations with weak UUs or UBs. This very much seems to be the case for France, which has...

The UU:

The Musketeer, a replacement for the Musketman that gains an additional point of movement. Unfortunately, Musketmen are among the poorest units in the game. Longbows serve as better city defenders for the hammer expenditure, and, although gunpowder units render Walls and Castles obsolete, the Musket's base strength of 9 can rarely cut through a Medieval stack in or outside a city.

The Musketeer does have a niche use though. Since Cuirassiers do not receive defense bonuses, Musketeers, with their 2-movements, can provide a certain degree of stack defense.

The UB:

The Salon, an Observatory with one free Artist. Eh, it's alright I suppose. Observatories can be captured, and the free Artist then grants a free border pop. The building also adds a few free GPPs to your GP farm. It's nothing to write home about, but isn't awful.

The start:

There appears to be nothing but Forests in the tiles 2E (+1 N/S) of the capital. Accordingly, I move my Warrior 1NE:

Spoiler :

... and SIP.

More seafood is revealed south of the capital.

France starts with Agriculture and The Wheel, perhaps the strongest starting combo in the game. Unfortunately neither of these help us here. There are no tiles suitable for farming in the capital's BFC, and no rivers that will benefit from early cottages. True, I can road every tile in sight if my Worker has nothing better to do. But what good does that do me?

Since I settled on a Plains Hill, it will take 12 turns to build a Worker. It will take 15 turns to research Animal Husbandry, 7 turns to research Fishing, or 9 turns to research Mining.

In other words, if I go for a Worker first, the only way I can have him improving a tile immediately is to go straight to Mining. But my sources of food (and commerce) are unlocked through Fishing and Animal Husbandry. If I go Mining ---> AH, my Worker will have to work a non-riverside Grassland Hill, build a few roads, improve the Cow, build more roads, then more roads, then more roads.

If I go AH ---> Mining, my Worker will have to build Roads for 3 turns before he can improve the Cow. Then he will have to build roads, then mine, then more roads, and more roads, and... well, you get the idea.

So, to work a decent number of decent tiles, I need to go to Fishing first. Here is a tentative plan.

1) Research Fishing. T0 - T7
2) Build a Warrior. T0-T5
3) Start to build a Worker. T5-T7
4) Start to build a Workboat. T7
5) Start to research Animal Husbandry. T7
6) Grow to size 2. T13
7) Finish Workboat. T16
8) Return to building Worker.

I might be off by a turn or two with my timing, but I think this is the best possible opening given the start. Hammers invested in a unit begin to atrophy after 10 turns, so I don't think there will be any loss in my early investment in the Worker.

With Fishing and AH in, I can research Mining while building more WBs. I should also have scouted the surrounding land, and can begin to road towards future city sites.

Mining could be postponed in favor of Sailing. I'll see how the opening turns unfold. Suffice it to say, Napoleon receives cheap Lighthouses, my capital is located on the coast, and this is a water heavy map. I'll try to shoot for the GLH.

Barb defense will be needed also.

Save attached, for those of you who'd like to shadow.

 

[The Oz-Man]

I'm optimistic about that unforested green hill. C'mon, copper!

Napoleon is a boatload of fun, and as I recall Organized leaders become pretty crazy with the Great Lighthouse. So I'll be looking forward to this, as always.

 

[Doshin]

You know, I hadn't considered that, but it does look very suspicious... ah, to go for BW instead of Archery or not? If I do go for BW, the hill will contain Iron or Coal. If I ignore BW, it will contain Copper. Grrrrr.

 

[Xcalibrator]

Unless the exploring warrior turns up more nearby cows/pigs/sheep I'd be tempted to build two workboats before the worker, and delay AH and go Fishing-->Mining-->BW to chop out settlers and workers. The first worker could road to the forests to speed later chopping. I'm guessing we'll want our second city 2E or 2E1S of the southern crabs. I'd try a test map, but since this isn't an xOTM I can just restart when I find my ploy fails miserably.

 

[Doshin]

AH definitely has a number of problems. For this start, it will offer no barb defense. The tech is expensive and I have no obvious sources of commerce. Right now, it only allows me to improve one tile. And it will slow any GLH attempt.

Xcalibrator, I quite like your Fishing ---> Mining ---> BW suggestion. If Copper pops, I know that I can avoid Hunting/Archery. If it doesn't, then at least Hunting will offer an eventual discount on AH.

Hmmm. I need to think more about this one.

 

[ben-jammin]

You know, I hadn't considered that, but it does look very suspicious... ah, to go for BW instead of Archery or not? If I do go for BW, the hill will contain Iron or Coal. If I ignore BW, it will contain Copper. Grrrrr.

Schrodinger's strategic resource.

 

[terriFyer]

OOOOOH that start looks nice. I'd settle in place, start a worker and research Mysticism so you can chop rush the Stonehenge

 

[Doshin]

OOOOOH that start looks nice. I'd settle in place, start a worker and research Mysticism so you can chop rush the Stonehenge

It's actually very hard to build Stonehenge on Deity, and not usually advisable for non-industrious leaders. For instance, in this game I settled on the following early tech path:

Fishing ---> Mining ---> Bronze Working

Sounds good, right? Fishing lets me build Workboats, Mining gives my Worker a tile to improve, and Bronze Working lets this Worker chop some of the Forests.

However, if I go for Mysticism next, the turn that I finish the tech the following happens:

Spoiler :

Even if it hadn't gone this early, building the wonder requires 120 that could be spent elsewhere: Settlers, Workers, Axemen, whatever. That means that I would have to chop six Forests, or work the Mined Grassland Hill for thirty turns without building anything else, or, (more realistically) use some combination of the two to force the wonder out. However you look at it, it's all too slow.

 

[Doshin]

Round 1

Just a short round, to kick things off.

My early tech path, as I mentioned in my last post, went from Fishing ---> Mining ---> BW, following Xcalibrator's suggestion. Initial exploratory efforts suggested that AH would still need to be researched sooner rather than later:

Spoiler :

I built a Warrior first, invested two turns into a Worker, and switched to a WB. After building the first WB, I returned to the Worker, who was able to mine the Grassland Hill (no Copper, sadly). The second WB was timed to completion when Washington reached size 3. At size 3, I started to build a Settler (working 1x Crab, 1x Clam and a mined Grassland Hill) with the aid of some chops.

In T10, I met the first neighbor, a suspicious looking fellow who, to judge from his appearance, is probably prone to misguided Horse Archer rushes:

Spoiler :

In all seriousness, Lincoln is a good neighbor to have. I think he's the third most peaceful AI in the game, after Gandhi and Mansa.

In T27, temptation struck. Lincoln presented me with an unguarded Worker:

Spoiler :

I didn't attack, of course. I am a far bigger wimp than Lincoln.

It does appear that it's just the two of us. Lincoln's territory was quickly scouted:

Spoiler :

And on the following turn, he settled a third city:

Spoiler :

2E of the wet Wheat.

At this point, things were beginning to feel a little claustrophobic. Seafood starts are always slow, but here my capital is at size 2, two turns away from starting a Settler, and Lincoln is already starting to settle towards me. The land to my capital's north contains DESERT. The land to my capital's south contains TUNDRA. It is a cardinal rule of CivIV that DESERT + TUNDRA = BAD CITIES.

The GLH plan therefore had to be put on the back-burner while I settled some cities. Ordinarily I would want to work the Plains Gold with my second city, to fuel further expansion and research. Instead I tried to block off land.

Settler #1 stole away the wet Wheat, before Lincoln could claim it with a border pop:

Spoiler :

Settler #2 blocked off a chunk of land to the south and can work a Grassland Sheep:

Spoiler :

You can see in both pictures Lincoln's own attempt to claim the spot. Unfortunately this meant I had to settle my city one turn sooner than I would have liked. Settling on the tundra hill, while considerably slower to set up, would have left room for three cities in the southern peninsula. Oh well.

Settler #3 was far less urgent, but basically completed the seal on my half of the continent:

Spoiler :

My tech path went from Animal Husbandry ---> Sailing ---> Masonry ---> Mysticism ---> Writing. With three animal resources to work, I couldn't justify postponing AH.

After I produced the third Settler, the capital's production shifted to a Lighthouse. The Organized boost definitely helped:

Spoiler :

In 1160 BC, T71, I whipped the wonder for 3 pop. It's a big whip, but on a watery map like this, anything after 1500 BC for the GLH is pushing it. I'd rather lose three pop than the wonder itself.

I played one more turn and came to a stop. In 1080 BC, the land currently explored:

Spoiler :

Lincoln has Ivory, Copper, and will soon have Marble. There are no Horses on our continent, unless some are hiding in Washington's BFC. I hope I have Iron somewhere in my territory. Otherwise... blah.

We have only met Lincoln, Lincoln has only met us:

Spoiler :

There are no religions on our continent. Buddhism and Hinduism both went fairly late. Hinduism was taken before Buddhism:

Spoiler :

But it seems that Buddhism and Judaism were founded by the same civ in the same city:

Spoiler :

I've not done (and have no interest in) doing the math, but to generate two Great Prophets by T73 seems quite an achievement.

Ohhhhhh. Here's my Round 1 prediction: Ramesses II is in the game. He built Stonehenge in his capital, allowing him to generate a very early Great Prophet (the shrine was built in 2240 BC, T44). His second city, with the shrine's Great Prophet points and Priest specialists (through the Obelisk) let him build a second shrine nineteen turns later, 1400 BC or T65. Egypt doesn't start with Mysticism, which explains why they went straight to Hinduism. Both Egyptian leaders have Organized Religion as their favorite civic, which is why they go to Monotheism early.

Currently, I need to build a WB and circle my continent. If land can be sighted from Lincoln's shore, I'd like to know.

Since we're isolated, Lincoln will refuse to trade all but a few techs (Alpha, Monarchy, et al.) until he meets someone else. I have no strategic resources, so an early war seems unattractive.

If we really are isolated, then I may forgo the Lib race altogether. The situation on my continent is manageable, whereas the other continents are a big unknown. So Optics will be important. With the Great Lighthouse, overseas foreign trade routes will be extremely lucrative. I might even ignore Civil Service to open up the Astro bulb path.

 

[Shaandore]

I wanted to suggest settler first until fishing in, then WB, then switch back to settler, but I guess I am late
Would that be too risky? When do barbs enter borders on Deity?

On the situation: It looks like a tough game. Let's hope you have some iron to crash Lincoln. You don't even have a convenient place for a gift city (maybe on the plains tile W of the desert?), his favourite civic is emancipation, so getting him to friendly will be tough. His cities will be more useful if you take them. This could be done with the Optics beeline+trading for war tech (construction), but going straight for cats should be faster and more reliable.

Also no religion and 2 happy resource visible (one ivory, and he most likely won't trade it to you). Happiness will be a huge problem...

If he has extra strat resource of some kind (copper, horse, iron, ivory), he would trade it at pleased. It would be good to check out his land ASAP so you can beeline the proper military tech.

But let's hear what the experts say.

 

[ben-jammin]

Ooof. This is gonna be a tough one. The only positive is that it's Roosevelt on your continent.

 

[Doshin]

@Shaandore

You can definitely go Settler first on Deity and get out a second city before barbs can enter your borders. But it's usually something I only consider when I'm playing with an Imperialistic leader and have very few good tiles to work off the bat.

It might have worked here because Lincoln sent his first two Settlers in my direction, but without previous map knowledge I think it's best to go Worker before the Settler.

 

[Doshin]

Round 2

A quick reminder of where we left off:

Spoiler :

As planned, I whipped a WB out to circle our continent. The WB's journey left a sour taste in my mouth:

Spoiler :

I thought I had blocked Lincoln from settling the west, when clearly he had blocked me off from the east.

Still, while I was slowly exploring Lincoln didn't add any cities to his overall count. His most easterly city also looked very suspiciously placed:

Spoiler :

So a plan was formed.

1) Build a Galley:

Spoiler :

2) Send a few Settlers, Warriors, and Workers east:

Spoiler :

3) Load said units onto Galley:

Spoiler :

4) Trade with Lincoln for Copper:

Spoiler :

5) Found city. Upgrade Warriors:

Spoiler :

6) Watch barb Archer army suicide against Axes fortified in a hill city:

Spoiler :

7) Settle the now-clear peninsula:

Spoiler :

All of this was only made possible by the GLH and Nappy's Organized trait. Even with an additional two trade routes and reduced maintenance, the cities were losing money. Once Courthouses were chopped out (one chop = sixty hammers) they became profitable.

It was just me and Lincoln in semi-isolation. There are a few techs the AI will trade even when they think they have a monopoly. These include Alphabet, which I traded for Aesthetics, and Monarchy, which I traded for Compass. My tech path was something like:

Writing ---> Aesthetics ---> Alphabet (trade) ---> Meditation ---> Mathematics ---> Iron Working ---> Priesthood ---> Monarchy (trade) ---> Compass ---> Currency ---> Metal Casting ---> Machinery ---> Optics.

Since I had Aesthetics and Gold, I decided to make a brief detour through Meditation and build the Shwedagon Paya. This was initially for the fail gold, but, after some reflection, I decided I'd like the wonder itself:

Spoiler :

I think this was a good build. The only religions remaining at the time were Taoism and Islam, and I planned to avoid Civil Service for some time (i.e. no super bureau capital). Free Religion seemed the way to go. The downside was that teching Meditation led to a slower Astronomy because the GS then prioritizes Philosophy. I hadn't considered this at the time, but no biggie.

I hadn't bulbed any techs when I reached Optics. I had, however, generated 4 GPP in total. GS #1 built an Academy in my capital. A GM then started a Golden Age. By 1000 AD I had two Great Scientists banked:

Spoiler :

Three Caravels had also been whipped in order to scout out the world.

Spoiler :

What will they discover? Who will they meet? Find out in the next exciting round of... DDD VII!

Er. I mean... the empire at 1000 AD:

Spoiler :

Very schizophrenic.

Top five cities:

Spoiler :

The double shrine city is now triple shrined. Washington has turned into a great city too: Lincoln got most of the Aesthetics wonders thanks to Ivory and Marble. He's generated a huge number of GSs, which would have led to a really powerful Specialist Economy. Except he's running Universal Suffrage. D'oh.

 

[shulgi]

Nicely done, it'll be interesting to see what direction you take this in. Naval maps don't offer clear strategies to get in a winning position (at least to me). Are you going to try to vassal Lincoln or tech and trade peacefully? Or even better yet see what information the caravels bring back.

 

[vranasm]

wow that bald move with crossing the mountains certainly paid off... nicely done

would prefer shorter turnsets with more screenshots and more decision making

 

[Doshin]

Nicely done, it'll be interesting to see what direction you take this in. Naval maps don't offer clear strategies to get in a winning position (at least to me). Are you going to try to vassal Lincoln or tech and trade peacefully? Or even better yet see what information the caravels bring back.

Lincoln is a bit of a wimp, so I can afford to take him out at my own pace. He won't attack at Pleased, and he won't become unstoppable with seven cities. It'd be a different story if I had spawned next to Shaka...

I'll attack whenever it seems easiest. Cuirassiers aren't that powerful on watery maps, and I won't win Lib, so I'll probably ignore Military Tradition and attack with Rifles or Cannons (unless I'm attacked first).

 

[MeowZeDung]

Very nice job spotting the two peaks blocking Lincoln's expansion. That's a detail I probably would have missed until the opportunity had passed.

 

[Killroyan]

I love the settling of the cities behind the peak. Brilliant, especially with how you moved the settlers there

 

[Manco Capac]

I second this.

This map laying is fun and the AI pretty pathetic.

 

[Doshin]

It's a fun map, for sure. I don't often build Caravels and actually discover the AI. Either I'm playing on Pangaea and meet everyone by T30, or I have enough trading partners that I neglect Optics in favor of Lib.

Lincoln would have settled that land eventually... but yes, those two mountains definitely showed the AI's limitations at their worst. Lincoln had three Settlers kicking their heels in a coastal city when I started to claim the land:

Spoiler :