Defeat Into Victory 2

[rhodie]

If I were you Rhodie I'd go ahead and upload all this stuff separately to the database just like you did the units. Its up to you of course but its nice for the rest of us to have all the options in one place.

The introductory improvements mentioned were created specifically for 'Defeat Into Victory 2' and I don't think that they would apply to any other scenario.
Should any modder like some help or suggestions for their own scenarios, I don't mind helping where I can.
Apart from my own units that I previously uploaded, the terrain and a few other units to which I gave credit are already available to download from CivFanatics.

 

[Gary Childress]

Thank you very much Gary. I was wondering when someone would comment.

If you click the ‘Description’ title bar on the ‘Player Setup’ page of my scenario, you will see that I have changed the usual ‘civilization’ description.
I used this section to acknowledge those CivFanatics whose creative genius I used to create ‘Defeat Into Victory 2’.
Quote: The main visual effect of the scenario is the magnificent jungle terrain created by Balthazar using pieces of terrain by Ares de Borg, Pounder, Goldfool, Womak and Varlin Saliptor. Unquote.
Their jungle terrain is as close as one can get in ‘Civilization’ to the real Burmese terrain fought over by the XIV Army.

The opening page shows an image of the pagodas of Rangoon, overlooked by a Japanese entrenchment. The entrenchment image I cribbed from a recent movie. I wonder if anyone knows which one?
You may have also noticed that the mini in-game windows have bamboo sides, topped by a Samurai sword and scabbard and superimposed by a British marine and Japanese rikusentai.

Thank you for mentioning one aspect of the game. I hope that you enjoyed the scenario and all the other improvements.

I know there was a japanese movie on Iwo Jima not too long ago. I'm guessing the opening page is cribbed from that movie?

I notice there are a few units in the game which don't have the sentry or fortify function attached to them, namely transports and a troop truck in Singapore. Is that intentional? Also Nature seems to be attacking a lot of my unmanned cities and taking them over. I'm wondering if the forces of nature would be better represented as air units with only bombard capability, just to weaken units not necessarily destroy them or take cities. Just a thought. Otherwise the scenario is a masterpiece of craftmanship IMO!

 

[rhodie]

I know there was a japanese movie on Iwo Jima not too long ago. I'm guessing the opening page is cribbed from that movie?

I notice there are a few units in the game which don't have the sentry or fortify function attached to them, namely transports and a troop truck in Singapore. Is that intentional? Also Nature seems to be attacking a lot of my unmanned cities and taking them over. I'm wondering if the forces of nature would be better represented as air units with only bombard capability, just to weaken units not necessarily destroy them or take cities. Just a thought. Otherwise the scenario is a masterpiece of craftmanship IMO!

Thank you very much Gary for playing the scenario and giving me some positive feedback.

You are quite right; 'Letters from Iwo Jima' is a great movie and the crib is General Kuribayashi gazing at the formidable landing forces.

Transport is generally not a fighting unit and from my experience, unable to keep sentry or fortify (expect maybe as a laager), so that action seemed inappropriate and the setting was intentional.

Nature taking over empty cities is a technical problem, but to add troops to defend each town would have slued the historical military establishment. I don’t think that there is a way to create a strong enough city defence without troops.

Point taken about the bombard capability, but as typhoon and malaria can hardly be described as 'air' units, I designated them as what they are - 'sea' and 'land' units respectively. Most of the Allied casualties in Burma during 1942-3 were caused by tropical disease (malaria being the main culprit) before new drugs and preventative measures became effective. Unfortunately in 'Civilization' most units (apart from bombard units) do not just incapacitate, they either kill or are killed.

For the original scenario, I created an html document précis of the book ‘Defeat Into Victory’ but didn't include it in the new version (although I'd be happy to forward it for interested CivFanatics. However, if you can get a copy of the book, it offers terrific reading of that WWII SE Asia jungle conflict.

 

[Gary Childress]

You're quite welcome Rhodie! Thank you for all your efforts in creating such a great scenario!

The only reason I think fortify or sentry would be good for the transports is so that the player doesn't need to baby sit all his transports each turn. Once you click on fortify or sentry then you don't need to worry about hitting the skip turn button each turn.

As far as nature not taking over any cities, I'm wondering if there isn't a way to work nature units in as hidden nationality. When not at war with another civ, units with hidden nationality are not allowed to take cities. However, once at war, those units will be able to take those cities. I'm wondering if there is consequently a way to keep nature from going to war with any other civs but allow her units with hidden nationality to attack units "in the field."

Just a thought. I think nature is a very necessary player in the scenario just for the reasons you cite. Plus it adds a lot of character to the scenario. It's not a scenario breaker to have cities taken over by nature I don't think, just a bit of a nuissance.

 

[Virote_Considon]

As far as nature not taking over any cities, I'm wondering if there isn't a way to work nature units in as hidden nationality. When not at war with another civ, units with hidden nationality are not allowed to take cities. However, once at war, those units will be able to take those cities. I'm wondering if there is consequently a way to keep nature from going to war with any other civs but allow her units with hidden nationality to attack units "in the field."

Unfortunatley, this is only the case with human-controlled hidden nationality units. Under the AI, hidden nationality units can still attack and take over cities (although it goes a little bit strange here, as once they kill the last defender, they don't automatically take the city!)

 

[Gary Childress]

Well that would be ideal. Really all that is needed is for Nature NOT to capture cities. It's fine to attack units in cities, just so long as the city is not taken over. The main problem seems to be, however, making it so that nature will not declare war on anyone, but rather simply attack everyone's units.

 

[rhodie]

Transport – Your right, I had forgotten about the ‘skip turn’ issue. One thing I notice is the AI doesn’t use the trucks (even though I increased their moves) to carry other units with fewer moves, thus defeating their function. AI trucks just sit there (just as the AI workers are left standing still).

Nature – I’ve always felt that this element has been missing from Civilization. Adding the ‘plague’ effect (I call it cholera in my scenario), gave a more realistic dimension to the game but for me ‘nature’ adds that surprising irritation.
As ‘Virote Considon’ says, the ‘hidden nationality’ issue apparently does not work under the AI (and in the scenario the AI is in control of nature). Anyway, as nature should be at war with everyone all the time, that option shouldn’t apply, so cities would still be taken over.
Possibly a solution would be to create an immobile city defence unit (called a nurse, paramedic or something) that had similar ‘defence’ capabilities(emergency aid skills) as the catapult? This unit could not be rebuilt but would be added to each ‘undefended’ town by the scenario creator. That should at least slow nature’s unlikely 'takeover' of the towns.

 

[Virote_Considon]

Well that would be ideal. Really all that is needed is for Nature NOT to capture cities. It's fine to attack units in cities, just so long as the city is not taken over. The main problem seems to be, however, making it so that nature will not declare war on anyone, but rather simply attack everyone's units.

Sorry, I wasn't too clear there. I didn't mean AI HN units can't take cities whilst at peace. They can, just not after defeating the last defender. If they have another attack point, or if there is another one in the stack, then they can take the city that turn, else they may have to wait the turn, if that makes any sense...

 

[Gary Childress]

Oh. I see. Yes that makes sense. I tried making Nature units hidden nationality and that is basically what happened when I did.