Defending coastal cities

[paulcarri]

Just curious how people go about defending coastal cities??

I was playing a new europe map (after a space win on the first)...as england, and pretty much ahead...until 3 AI simultaneously declared (ragnar was at pleased relations!!) My mil was 2nd in power, so i wasnt an obvious AI target..

Im finding it almost impossible to defend the coast (every city is on the coast) especially as it is only 800bc so my roads arent up

On my usual map (pangea) i concentrate my troops on my borders- since they cant use my roads etc generally.

But obviously that isnt applicable here, so aside from either having 100 triremes, or 8 units per city, how do you defend against them?

Cheers

 

[Manco Capac]

First, get BUG mod. It allows easy discernment of various mechanics like the AI plotting. When an AI plots a war, it gives the WHEOOH excuse (We have enough on our hands) and with bug mod, you can see a fist next to the leadername in the score table.

Why is it important? Well, unless you're playing K-mod, you should normally be cautious of those in war mode because naval invasion takes time. I don't think dagger mode (war preparations that span on a single turn, a.k.a. no alert before DoW) will allow intercontinental wars.

When you see the fist mode (war mode), then send ships there so as to get some preventive information when the stack of boats will target you effectively. At that moment, you can guess from which front of coast you'll have to defend and move your soldiers. It is not about spamming navy preemptively, but about making a swift peak in production of soldiers several turns beforehand.

Finally, don't expect AI sending huge dangerous stacks. Usually, they send pathetic SoD's and sometimes even outdated units. The most funny situation was a deity game (where it is a bit more fearsome) where Qin sent me a big stack of destroyers while I had only frigates. Guess what was the load inside the transport ships: MEDIEVAL UNITS!

 

[Manco Capac]

Another trick you may use is the trap city. Some filler city having passed over size 2 once (to avoid autorazing) without garrison at all. Hoping the stack will take the bait, you can then use some units to wound the stack and the code forces a stack (even though most units are healthy) in a city to heal until completely healed. Also, you may use invasive units (City Raider promoted units like sieges) to wipe it out.

 

[paulcarri]

Ill have a look at bug mod cheers, it wasnt a huge stack (8 units of swordsmen chariots and axemen) but considering it was 800bc it took me by surprise thats for sure


Playing on a thin island is a totaly different game almost

Thanks

 

[Sisiutil]

For an amphibious invasion the AI will almost always target whichever of your cities is closest to them. (In some ways this is practical, as the DoW will bump all their units out of your territory to the nearest point in the vicinity.) So, in combination with what Tachywaxon said above, if you know an enemy is in WHEOOHRN mode, you can focus forces in the coastal cities that are closest to them rather than spreading them around. This is especially true pre-Astronomy, when ships have to hug the coast, but even after that, I've seen the AI stick to the route of least resistance.

In addition:

• Clear any jungle or forest on coastal tiles that are adjacent to a city. The AI likes to land amphibious invasions on good defensive tiles. Don't make it easy for them.
• Speaking of which, if there is a hill next to a coastal city that is a likely target for amphibious invasion, fortify a good defensive unit there (like a Longbowman with Guerrilla promotions). The AI will then either lose a lot of its units trying to destroy that unit, or will instead either (a) land its units on a tile with no defensive bonus or (b) attempt to attack directly from its ships even with the penalty that involves.
• Consider building walls and even castles in your most vulnerable coastal cities. Normally I don't bother with those, but every little bit can help. The AI may attempt that kamikaze attack from aboard ship I mentioned above, in which case the defensive bonus is an additional benefit. Or it may land next to the city and spend several turns trying to whittle down your defenses with the pathetically small number of siege weapons it brought, which should give you time to move/build several units to respond to the invasion.
• My go-to units for destroying an amphibious stack that has made landfall are (a) siege weapons to weaken them and cause collateral damage (a combination of drill and barrage promotions are usually best here) and (b) mounted with flanking promotions to attack and destroy the stack.

Lastly, on roads--granted, you have other priorities for your workers than building roads on every tile. But if you don't have your early cities connected by at least one road, you probably don't have enough workers.

 

[pomthom]

Another thing about leaders attacking at Pleased: some do and some don't, check this very useful thread if you want to learn about that.

Also, for these leaders that can plot at Pleased such as Ragnar, you can defuse war-plotting (or at least gain some time) by begging something from him (begging = demanding a Pleased/Friendly leader a bit of gold [around 50] or gold per turn for free, when accepted it immediately starts a 10 turn peace treaty). If you haven't begged from him before (or did so a long time ago) he'll accept, even if he was plotting against you (in which case he stops plotting, at least during the peace treaty). If he doesn't stop plotting it means you weren't his target.

This technique is also useful to beg from Pleased AIs that could be bribed against you when you DoW another AI. For example you DoW the French and beg something from Pleased Ragnar so that the French can't bribe him against you

 

[paulcarri]

That treaty for begging is a great feature, thanks!!!

and i think maybe my problem was i expanded too fast, i occupied britain very quickly, thinking the ai would not invade while it had space to expand.

I did get a space win, but i had problems with invaders up until i got redcoats and got my destroyers up and running, i took out a lot of invasions en route with those.

(ive read a few threads saying redcoats suck, but i think they are fab!)

Islands where every city is on the coast is hard to defend early i think though.

 

[Culture Bomb]

Redcoats suck compared to how they were pre-BTS (they used to have 16 strength.) Now they're not bad, but not a huge upgrade over ordinary riflemen.

 

[UnholyMudcrab]

Redcoats suck compared to how they were pre-BTS (they used to have 16 strength.) Now they're not bad, but not a huge upgrade over ordinary riflemen.

More than that, they also had a bonus versus gunpowder units, didn't they?

 

[paulcarri]

More than that, they also had a bonus versus gunpowder units, didn't they?

They still do? Thats why i love them, they are good against

cuirassers/cavalry

other rifles

and hold their own against their counter...the grenadier

 

[Kallikrates]

vanilla redcoats were unfairly overpowered.
But in unmodded BtS the AI sucks at intercontinental warfare in my experience. I have hardly ever encountered a serious thread before the modern age (up to emperor). Although I have been taken by surprise (because I also suck at warfare) and lost many nets to marauding enemy ships, invasions were only a problem when I was a very unexperienced newbie.

 

[paulcarri]

vanilla redcoats were unfairly overpowered.
But in unmodded BtS the AI sucks at intercontinental warfare in my experience. I have hardly ever encountered a serious thread before the modern age (up to emperor). Although I have been taken by surprise (because I also suck at warfare) and lost many nets to marauding enemy ships, invasions were only a problem when I was a very unexperienced newbie.

In that game the problem was it was so early.. 800 bc, id only just settled cities really- and i didnt have a road network up yet to all my cities, and surprisingly the ai was sending 3 or 4 galleys full of attackers at a time.

IMHO coastal defense is fine, providing it isnt mega early - if you have cities fairly close to each other and a road network then no problem. It was pretty extreme playing england too as every city i had was coastal and therefore on 'the front line' meaning i couldnt have an empty core and a concentrated borders.

 

[lindsay40k]

Hang on. I thought cuirs and cavs were just mounted units? Didn't realise they were hybrids?

 

[Tall German Joe]

Hang on. I thought cuirs and cavs were just mounted units? Didn't realise they were hybrids?

rifles of any type have a +25% bonus against mounted units, and, for the purposes of combat bonuses, cuirs and cavs are mounted, not gunpowder.

they are both still sort of hybrids though, because they ignore city walls and castles just like other gunpowder units.

 

[Kallikrates]

In that game the problem was it was so early.. 800 bc, id only just settled cities really- and i didnt have a road network up yet to all my cities, and surprisingly the ai was sending 3 or 4 galleys full of attackers at a time.

I agree that this is very surprising; I do not think I ever encountered an overseas invasion in the BCs. Maybe just bad luck, it sounds too smart for the standard AI... Which level and settings did you play?

 

[paulcarri]

I agree that this is very surprising; I do not think I ever encountered an overseas invasion in the BCs. Maybe just bad luck, it sounds too smart for the standard AI... Which level and settings did you play?

It was only monarch! or may have been emp, im not sure now.

Ragnar ...the SOB always declares on me everytime hes on my map..so dunno why i was surprised.

It may have been he was unable to build cities as it was a crowded european map... and just spent 2,000 years building units!

To be fair ive seen some pretty big stacks landed via sea lately.

Monty landed 18 catapults in a recent game...unfortunatly for him the rest of the world had moved onto rifles by then

 

[noto2]

Oh unmodded BTS, what tripe. Play Kmod, where the AI doesn't announce that it's preparing for war and where it can launch a real intercontinental invasion. You can't ignore the other continent at ALL in Kmod

 

[paulcarri]

Oh unmodded BTS, what tripe. Play Kmod, where the AI doesn't announce that it's preparing for war and where it can launch a real intercontinental invasion. You can't ignore the other continent at ALL in Kmod

hehe ill have to try it - although i must suck because i lost a coastal city for 1 turn last night..

I had 7 infantry and 2 machine guns garrisoned there..mehmet amphibiously assaulted with 14 galleons full of war elephants!! and cuirrassers

It was quite depressing watching my infantry squadron dying to elephants on a boat...

 

[Fippy]

Are you sure you didn't dream that?
How many Jumbos would you need to kill 1 Infantry if there are 9 good defenders, attacking amphibious too..would be an interesting test, but i would say 50 don't manage killing even 1.

 

[paulcarri]

Are you sure you didn't dream that?
How many Jumbos would you need to kill 1 Infantry if there are 9 good defenders, attacking amphibious too..would be an interesting test, but i would say 50 don't manage killing even 1.

lol no i didnt dream it, he had cuirs as well, and janissaries.. i had forgotten to turn animations off, so sat there for ten minutes waiting to move...i DEFINITELY saw elephants going in though

I had 50 cavalry in britain, so took it back quickly, but it was annoying.

The RNG was playing havoc last night tho.. i THOUGHT my ironclads would eat his galleons up, i had 2 sets of 3 parked on the seafood..

It cost him all his galleons but he killed 4 or 5 ironclads...i was cursing at this point!

Its my fault, i decided on space...and i let him grow into a 50 city monster... and as i only have offshore oil and he just got steel.... it is going to be a long run into plastics.