Deity Challenge 6 - Polynesia, Archipelago
- Thread starter Moriarte
- Start date
Very few units have the indirect fire uppgrade. Actually not even missile cruisers
But if you upgrade them from battleships they get it right?
Battleships can not be uppgraded. You have to build missile cruisers from scratch. The really cool thing with the missile cruiser is the heavy interception it has. Also it can see submarines and 1 shot kill them.
No resources needed. It is the most insane unit in the game. Such a late game unit though, otherwise people would understand how OP it really is. 
Battleships can not be uppgraded. You have to build missile cruisers from scratch. The really cool thing with the missile cruiser is the heavy interception it has. Also it can see submarines and 1 shot kill them.
yes I tried MC in an MP game surprised to see it remove the aluminium restriction
Now archor line units can't get indirect fire in G&K now.
After taking Paris at t117 and upgraded some of veterans to frigates, I spent several turns there to take one more city and wipe out musketeers and other land army so that I won't need to worry about France again. I think I left there at t125.
Meanwhile, fleet #2 (5-6 galleass and one maoi warrior for finisher) took York at t122 (edit: there was a typo before - not 112, but 122) and killed English navy. I paid Russia to go war with England already so it was easy. Upgraded 2,3 to frigates and new frigates were on the way. Took London at t128. Had to sell York to Russia as my happiness would be -11. Price for York was 22 gold, 40 gpt and war with Alex
Even though my RA with mongolia ends at t129, I started attack on t129 as it took singapore and my happiness dropped 10 for that. I tried to prevent melee units to last hit but failed. I thought at this point, tech is basically meaningless as I have to finish the game with frigates. I didn't want to see -11 faces, so I started attack and liberated it at the same turn.
Mongolia was easy to kill as I bribed him to war with greece and France before. Took Old Sarai at t131, Karakorum at t133. Also got commerce 2 (+3 hammers) at t131 too.
I started to bribe everyone to fight against everyone. My gpt was about 120, and 40 were from York selling and around 50 came from France (I sold one city). In particular, with that and some lux + horses, I bribed Huns to DoW greece, russia, and france and took lump sum gold about 1000 too. Of course I DoWed him at the same turn. Every civ was on war and most of them were on war with 3 civs. Diplo screen did not have a single green letter.
For huns cap, there were 3 places that range upgraded frigates can shoot from 3 ring range (2 NE, 1 South). Took it at t146.
My fleet 2 was already on way to Moscow, and right after hun cap fleet 1 went to Athens. DoWed at t148, and got both caps at t149 to finish. Attached several screenshots (can post more if requested)
I feel that poly is really OP in this map setting, as
1. Early scouting: so many ruins and can meet CS and other civs really easily. I opened with 2 scouts.
2. Galleass and trirme can go into ocean! I think this is just too much. In terms of power, galleass : frigates = CBs : Xbows. But the critical difference is that galleass cannot go into ocean and slower then frigates, while CBs and Xbows have the same movement points. This ocean advantage allowed me to kill enemy navy really easily and even after navigation, you can still use old galleass with upgraded frigates. Same for trirme.. this is basically caravel. did not need to spend 180 gold to upgrade it to caravel so that I could last hit easily.
Thank for a great game!
Meanwhile, fleet #2 (5-6 galleass and one maoi warrior for finisher) took York at t122 (edit: there was a typo before - not 112, but 122) and killed English navy. I paid Russia to go war with England already so it was easy. Upgraded 2,3 to frigates and new frigates were on the way. Took London at t128. Had to sell York to Russia as my happiness would be -11. Price for York was 22 gold, 40 gpt and war with Alex
Even though my RA with mongolia ends at t129, I started attack on t129 as it took singapore and my happiness dropped 10 for that. I tried to prevent melee units to last hit but failed. I thought at this point, tech is basically meaningless as I have to finish the game with frigates. I didn't want to see -11 faces, so I started attack and liberated it at the same turn.
Mongolia was easy to kill as I bribed him to war with greece and France before. Took Old Sarai at t131, Karakorum at t133. Also got commerce 2 (+3 hammers) at t131 too.
I started to bribe everyone to fight against everyone. My gpt was about 120, and 40 were from York selling and around 50 came from France (I sold one city). In particular, with that and some lux + horses, I bribed Huns to DoW greece, russia, and france and took lump sum gold about 1000 too. Of course I DoWed him at the same turn. Every civ was on war and most of them were on war with 3 civs. Diplo screen did not have a single green letter.
For huns cap, there were 3 places that range upgraded frigates can shoot from 3 ring range (2 NE, 1 South). Took it at t146.
My fleet 2 was already on way to Moscow, and right after hun cap fleet 1 went to Athens. DoWed at t148, and got both caps at t149 to finish. Attached several screenshots (can post more if requested)
I feel that poly is really OP in this map setting, as
1. Early scouting: so many ruins and can meet CS and other civs really easily. I opened with 2 scouts.
2. Galleass and trirme can go into ocean! I think this is just too much. In terms of power, galleass : frigates = CBs : Xbows. But the critical difference is that galleass cannot go into ocean and slower then frigates, while CBs and Xbows have the same movement points. This ocean advantage allowed me to kill enemy navy really easily and even after navigation, you can still use old galleass with upgraded frigates. Same for trirme.. this is basically caravel. did not need to spend 180 gold to upgrade it to caravel so that I could last hit easily.
Thank for a great game!
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Very fast time Glory7 congrats, you beat most people here (including me) by about 100 turns! I have never tried selling cities before, I took a bunch of them in my game and it would probably have helped get a faster time
Did you find commerce helped much? In my game I didn't find that the movement was much of an issue for my ships, a lot of people seem to be favouring left side of honour for domination wins here
Did you find commerce helped much? In my game I didn't find that the movement was much of an issue for my ships, a lot of people seem to be favouring left side of honour for domination wins here
I attached some screenshots. I took Rome (GLH!) at t100 and got commerce 1 at t105, so my galleass was basically frigates as it moves 5 and can move into ocean.
I built heroic epic right before compass and I think that helped a lot. morale promotion is just too good. Also, all my galleass had 1 upgrade to start with, so I could get range upgrade for most of my galleass after killing rome and france. I think I got compass at t82 and had like 5 trirmes before, and went all-in for galleass from t82.
I DoWed France at t107.. he was the tech leader and #1 in land, hammers, gold, food, etc. But his musketeers were useless against galleass... my 10 galleass destroyed French army and navy.
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That is some deal..
Well done, glory! I can picture entire deity armies of Catpults/Trebuchets jumping into the water to fight each other, after you bribe them.
You know what... I actually had a chance to watch their battle as my fleet was passing through the area between russia and greece to attack Huns first. It was hilarious... no wonder that those AIs could not take a single city from others while wasting units.
They were doing exactly what you expected. I got annoyed sometimes as they were occupying tiles so my units could not advance fast enough...
Very fast time Glory7 congrats, you beat most people here (including me) by about 100 turns! I have never tried selling cities before, I took a bunch of them in my game and it would probably have helped get a faster time
Did you find commerce helped much? In my game I didn't find that the movement was much of an issue for my ships, a lot of people seem to be favouring left side of honour for domination wins here
Selling cities is one of my favorite strategy. If you have adjacent civ that would covet that city, that civ will pay enornous amount for the city even if it is a really crappy one. In this game, I sold York to Russia for 40 gpt and DoW to greece, and sold one of crappy Hun cities right next to Greece to some lump sum gold and 60+ gpt.
Commerce played an important role in this game. movement and sight +1, and great admiral movement +2 is the best option to get. +3 hammers for all coastal cities is also great.
I don't like honor left side here, as honor opener is basically useless here and L1 is almost useless too - you don't really need GG and you are not producing melee units. Military tradition is a good one, but I think all you need is range upgrade and that requires only 60 xp. if you get barracks up before making galleass you have 15 already, and it does not take a long time to reach 60 xp. I started war around t90 and by t120 killed Rome and France - and most of, if not all, my galleass/frigates had range promotion.
I was really afraid of him with galleases only.
I forgot about that wonder...again
I guess that you hit L3 promo against him?You filled your island with cities. This slowed down Rome for sure. I had to capture 2 cities of him before getting his capital. Like Moriarte, he rapidly settled near the faith wonder. Fortunately this local war got me +1 range in time for France. Major mistake was to sell Paris too soon.
Absolutely. Also, it takes too long to reach Military Tradition(3rd policy) compared to something ''automatically'' implemented on your ships and for your 2nd policy only. Well i know now that the indirect fire cannot be implemented on frigates anymore.
I really should work on the bribing stuff next time. Especially at deity.
Very nice time again glory7
Once you've got 2 attacks, indirect fire/extra range become much less useful, unless it's really crowded. Sail in, fire twice, sail back out. If you've got movement bonus from great lighthouse, even better, as you can sail 2 tiles in and 2 tiles back out, you can get 6 frigates firing 12 times from the one spot in the one turn. If you've got 4 frigates, 3 of them with +1 range, it's not that much different to 4 frigates all with default range. One of them is getting bombarded by the city either way. It takes 3 promotions to get +1 range, or 4 to get two attacks. And once you've got two attacks, xp comes twice as fast, meaning the 5th promotion can be +1 range.
Agree. Range uppgrade on sea is wrong.
but.it.comes earlier
Good point. If you plan for 5th promotion and you can guarantee that you can get it before the time you need, you should aim for 4th promo and get logistics (2 attacks, right?). Once you get logistics, it's better than having range first.
But the problem is, it takes much longer to get logistics. with barracks, you start with 15xp. Each shoot/shot taken gives 2xp, and bombarding cities gives 3xp. So after like 20 turns of fighting, you can get range. Once you get range, that one basically won't be killed unless you screw up your micro and it can attack safely every turn. Also, having range allows you to focus fire much earlier.
30+ strength (oligarchy) cities and some units can kill one of your units per turn. However, once you get range you can save all your navy or lose 1, as you can kill any city at the same turn or the next turn. Without range, usually you have like 4-5 shooting spots. With range, you have more than 8 usually and it allows you for instant kill for most cases.
For quick domination (actually, fast killing also means safer battle, as you don't lose many units so your cities can build some happy buildings), it's important not to lose units and kill cities within 1-2 turns and move on.
If you wait for 4th promo, which is 100xp, you need 40 xp more from 60xp. It took about 20 turns of battle to get 45xp to get 3rd promo, and now you need around 18 more turns of battle. When I cleared France and went for the next war, it was t125 and I finished the game before t150, so I would not want to wait till 4th promo.
I wouldn't argue that having range promo first is better in all cases or for all playstyles, but I believe that taking range promo is certainly logical and in many times it is much better.
I replied to the original post already, so won't repeat the argument here.
For example: when I finished the game, I think only 3-4 of my old veterans managed to get 4th promo. They got range early so they did extract all possible xp during the game, but still could not reach for 5th promo for sure and most of my frigates could not reach 4th promo too. And thanks to all-range upgraded frigates, I could conquer really fast and did not lose a single unit after killing France.
I was really afraid of him with galleases only.
I forgot about that wonder...again
You filled your island with cities. This slowed down Rome for sure. I had to capture 2 cities of him before getting his capital. Like Moriarte, he rapidly settled near the faith wonder. Fortunately this local war got me +1 range in time for France. Major mistake was to sell Paris too soon.
Absolutely. Also, it takes too long to reach Military Tradition(3rd policy) compared to something ''automatically'' implemented on your ships and for your 2nd policy only. Well i know now that the indirect fire cannot be implemented on frigates anymore.
I really should work on the bribing stuff next time. Especially at deity.
Very nice time again glory7
I was worried about France too, but I decided to take him out asap before he gets too strong. Also, my 6 iron city was 4 tiles away from his city and if he decides to attack first, his musketeers + land army would kill it in like 2-3 turns, and I am basically screwed.
I thought I might lose couple units, but if I remember correctly I did not lose any navy (stupid AI...) movement 5, ocean-able galleass was just too OP.
I chose L2 promo for 2/3~3/4 of my ships and S2 promo for the rest. I did not get L3 or S3 and chose range in all cases.
For lsland map, I think you need to fill your island so that other's can't builld post city near you. If they have a city on your island, you might have to build land units and that certainly slows you down. I bought settler at t31 and hard-built settler (with pop 5) came out at t36 I think.
For bribing AIs, I believe that it's essential at deity. It really makes wars easier as AIs lose lots of units pointlessly.
I thought that England was the best one for time-attack at islands map, but after this deity challenge (thanks for the map again!) I changed my mind. I tried the same tactic with England - this starting location was not as good as this poly one (2 gold, 1 pearl for cap, and 1 salt for expo, unlike salts and marbles and sinai).
Compared to poly, England game had a slower start as I could not get many ruins. For example, I hit compass at t83 for poly game, but t92 for england game. t117 navigation for poly game, t128 for england.
However, once you get ship of the line, the speed is just.... crazy. And range attack 35 is insane. frigate's 28 is OP already, and 35 is... even strength is 30. For comparison, rifle's strength is 34 and artil's range attack is 28.
The only problem would be getting 12 irons (double 6 irons). one 6 iron and 2 iron would do the job too, but having 12 irons would be ideal.
Followed HoF rules - might have saved some turns if I had not. Attached some screenshots.
Compared to poly, England game had a slower start as I could not get many ruins. For example, I hit compass at t83 for poly game, but t92 for england game. t117 navigation for poly game, t128 for england.
However, once you get ship of the line, the speed is just.... crazy. And range attack 35 is insane. frigate's 28 is OP already, and 35 is... even strength is 30. For comparison, rifle's strength is 34 and artil's range attack is 28.
The only problem would be getting 12 irons (double 6 irons). one 6 iron and 2 iron would do the job too, but having 12 irons would be ideal.
Followed HoF rules - might have saved some turns if I had not. Attached some screenshots.
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I found the extra spy very helpful last time I played as England, too. Gave me half a dozen free techs, at least. Though that was marathon speed, and not particularly focused. I only started going to war once I had SotL, and only decided to win via domination about halfway through the wars. I was unable to trade pre-AI astronomy, as everybody else had actually ended up behind an ocean tile. A deity AI with Petra actually built in a really good location for it is absurd when it comes to cranking out the wonders.
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