Deity Isolation Workshop (Stan/Norm/Fractal/NH/NE)

[Fippy]

Hmm, Vass for a big army buildup is ofc good (not just in Iso ~~), i usually try pairing up civic switches.
Often i want slavery again when reaching CS in Iso, using Caste before (i find it much stronger than slavery once cities are settled with basic stuff).
1 round for Bur & slavery, when reaching your main military tech we could do Vass & Theo.
In your Shaka game i think it was Bur & Theo? Then i would probably skip Vass, unless you are confident you can win the game with your current techs.

With Spi or golden age available, can ofc switch around better
For example a bit of extra Vass when finishing rounds of "upgrade units" like Trebs for cannons or so.

 

[Fippy]

Toku game

Spoiler :

I think skipping silver city was okay here, def. a big enuf happy cap without. We could make a case of silver city over far away fish i guess, but it's not clear imo.

You are okay with merchants, cities that will not produce a GS should all use them cos they are better despite the small library bonus.
Kagoshima can produce your 2nd Astro GS, aiming at using 5 scientists at max size.
I think you should start there next turn, with removing cottages (health situation) at -1 food.

Osaka has a bit more potential if you give one floodplains farm.

 

[Pangaea]

Been reading back through some pages of the thread, and maybe it would be a good idea to link to page 9 on the first page, or to some of Rusten's posts there. Very good stuff.

My Toku game is on halt for the moment (and I'll probably lose it anyway), but think I'll try to approach NC 187 as sort of isolation, and go for cannons instead of the usual Cuir route (for me). It's already past 1000AD and I'm not that close to cannons, and compared to what Rusten wrote, I've picked techs not strictly required (but then Deity also means you can trade for stuff quicker, provided you have trade goods yourself). My empire setup in that game is sort of similar to what Rusten had in the Boudica game, with cottages all over the place. And I'm now tormenting myself at the thought of whipping away villages and towns for units (but don't have engineering yet).

For people like me, who aren't comfortable with neither Deity nor isolation, that game could be an easier introduction

 

[Lain]

Toku 350 AD (Optics)

Spoiler :

Applied Fippy's advice (thanks!) and in 350 AD the mighty Japanese Empire reaches Optics. Bulbing Machinery with the Great Engineer helped a lot.

In the end I starved everything to reach Optics 1 turn sooner (I didn't actually lose population, but some food everywhere) Was that smart? . If I get Astro one turn earlier it must be worth it, right?



2nd GS for Astro bulb comes in a few turns (can starve him out if I want, usefulness depends on how fast I can make contact...). Then I want another GP from the capital, to start a Golden Age and switch into Bur and in the end, Slavery. Is that a good plan?

Don't have academy here though... so maybe Vassalage is better? Tech with 2x Rep scientists everywhere. Build mighty strong units with 5 xp instead.

Awkward city placement and no forests meant that I only have 2 caravels ready right now -.- will upgrade another Trireme soon though...

@Pangaea Yup I agree, I linked it in the opening post.

Think I improved quite a lot in the recent weeks, thanks to all your help. Still had lots of bad habits that needed weeding out. Probably still do, but slowly getting there.

 

[dutchfire]

(Not a deity player):
I would switch into Vassalage + Slavery at the same time, at the end of the golden age. 5xp units are really better than 3xp units.
Remember, you can build units to 1t from completion, and then finish them after you've switched to Vassalage to get the bonus xp.

 

[Pedro78]

I've continued the Shaka game until Optics (125AD), 2 stored GS ready to bulb Astro but haven't met anyone yet... kinda screwed up the timing here, could probably have got at least 3 turns earlier Optics with better micro, got pretty sloppy at a point...

I might not continue playing this one, and go straight for the Toku game, not sure.

 

[Lain]

Toku 720 AD

Spoiler :

First contact was made in 520 AD...



Couldn't resist and traded Compass for Maths/Alpha shortly. Optics for Calendar shortly after. This meant...



475 AD Astro. Two turns later I meet two other guys. One is a bit mad at me.





Also met Carthage. These 4 seem to be on the same continent. Two more AI to go. Funny moment of the day:



... will probably convert to Buddhism. I'm scared of Kublai. Charly is also big, the others seem too weak. Charly/Brennus and Kublai/Hannibal get caught up in wars with each other.

Good that I got out that 3rd caravel to go south. I met Egypt and...



... this peaceful fella. Doesn't seem to be that scary in this game though. He was semi-isolated with Ramesses and seems to have drawn the short end of the stick. Strange thing is, he never actually declared war in this game o.o



Gave Astro to Kublai for Engineering, trying to keep him happy. Decided that he and Charly shall be my friends for now. Maybe I can wing something diplomatically later on.

Got another GP in 720 AD and fired up my Golden Age.



Switched into Org Rel, Bureaucracy and Buddhism for now. Best case scenario I get 2x Great Merchants during this Golden Age. At the end of that I am planning to switch into Police State, Vassalage and Slavery.

Will probably wreck Ramesses+Shaka. Highly likely that Kublai + Charly will become monsters aswell though. Not sure how this will play out. But there should be enough time left to do something. Maybe launch a later invasion.



Thoughts? Who should I attack?

Nobody has Paper yet. But I don't care about Lib. Beeline cannons, annihilate.

 

[Fippy]

Looks like Toku is doing good, not much to add
Skipping Bur. always feels a bit wasteful with cottages built up, but i agree with Rusten that when you really start pushing out units, Vass often turns into must have. I think we can agree that Bur is better while still teching, usually.
With Pyras and those sweet specialists it's less needed.

 

[Lain]

How do you rate Police State? Whipping units and stuff so not many specialists anyway.

Any advice for my Shaka game? Need to pick target... unfortunately people are quite advanced, but I want to hit a strong guy while possible. I marked one but not sure, so far away.. tough to bring reinforcements. Probably can't capitulate him quickly. And should I wait for Grenadiers?

"Boring" way would be: Take the weak guys, farm everything and win UN.

Think the game went nice so far, don't want to mess up~

 

[Lain]

Toku 1170 AD

Spoiler :

Ok, same problem here... I am ready to attack and wanted to go for Ramesses all the time... but he is close to Rifling, Cuirs/Cavalry .... he must have traded a lot, 15 turns ago he didn't have Guilds yet ... and I have Pikes, Samurai and Cannons... that's probably not enough unless it goes perfectly.



Also I need reinforcements, but if I keep whipping I can't tech and will fall behind... Kublai is a monster.. déjà vu feeling.



... could go for Shaka. He has 4 cities. Don't really like my position. Ok I could have reached Steel earlier, but that would mean less units. Even used Theo and teched with Bureau cap all the time. But feel like I need Rifles/Cannons here. Or is the position ok?

Egypt has lots of units, can upgrade everything soon. But not really a soft target.

Halp.

 

[Fippy]

Sorry for not looking in here quicker.

Rifling is imo good, and you are actually close yourself cos you can get PP & RP for chemistry.
Think i remember that right, AIs will always trade RP.

Meanwhile attacking Shaka and creating a nice base against Ramsy looks reasonable

 

[Lain]

Yup you make a good point... I don't have enough experience with naval invasion so I overestimate my military power. I always want to hit the strongest guy... and bite off more than I can chew basically.. nothing wrong with taking the little guys first~

Having mad fun with the Shaka game right now, so thanks Pedro for posting that map. If you won't continue it you can look at the save.

I usually never go space, but can I win it from this position?

 

[Pedro78]

I've played the first 11 turns of the Toku game, gonna take this one really slowly
Several things already come to mind.

Spoiler :

I guess the second and third cities should claim both golds? This would mean A LOT of early game commerce. Founding Confu could be a nice boost. Then the infamous iso-philo bulb would become an attractive option... its effectiveness depends so much on how fast the other continents are teching though...


The Mids look extremely sexy on that kind of map, too bad we don't have more forests. Now I'm concerned about what to do with cottages when running rep. I'd still probably cottage every capital riverside grassland, but what about capital non-riverside grassland tiles? And would you still cottage every non-capital riverside grassland tile? I'll definitely cottage some of them, but not sure if it's really worth it to lay down more cottages once you've got rep scientists... (Non-capital off-river / plains cottages look horribly inefficient compared to Rep scientists).

If there's some seafood to go with this commerce, the island looks pretty juicy

Haven't decided on the early-game tech path yet, looks like it's calling for Ag - Mining first. Not sure whether I'll go straight for the Mids or tech some crap like Pottery first. Looks like AH will be needed before Masonry as well. Anyways early game teching shouldn't be too much of a problem with this much commerce

Doesen't look too crazy on barbs so I'll probably skip Archery / TGW

Edit : Wow you've kicked some major ass in that Shaka game
I'm pretty sure you can win space from there. I'd just make sure to secure the Internet so you get the space techs from Mansa and Willem (I'd go Computers before stuff like Rocketry etc.) Maybe also make peace with Cyrus once he only has one city left to get some techs and kill him off 10 turns later?

 

[Fippy]

Yep i think so too, my first thought was that i would try to follow Monty into wars lol..it's fun stealing cities when they do most of the work.

 

[Lain]

@Pedro78

Spoiler :

If running rep scientists, you probably still want to grow to the happy cap first. So cottages can be worked until then. And are ok tiles later when you maybe switch into Police State or whip units. But then you only have bad tiles because cottages couldn't grow. Don't know the best solution for that. Shouldn't be a big deal though, capital will do most of the teching.

Wouldn't delay Pyras for too long. Not many forests so should start early enough. I always underestimate how long it actually takes to build. Some sacrifices are needed (probably delay Pottery with all the commerce?)

 

[Lain]

Toku 1575 AD

Spoiler :

Took out Ramesses and Zulu after long wars... especially Egypt was a big pain. Meanwhile the others teched a bit further, but it doesn't look too bad... going Biology now for trades and regrowing empire quickly.



But a bit scared about Kublai. Don't think space is possible here? He is too big and will probably tech like a beast. Or take out his continent >_> ... could maybe luck into UN victory if the right guys build it. Domi seems tough. At least his capital is coastal, could be important later



Any ideas? I am in this position like 100 years too late I feel.

 

[Lain]

General question, what is actually the blueprint for winning space?

Right now I'm thinking something like: Tech Computers -> Superconductors, to build Internet and Laboratories. Then beeline Fusion and hope to trade for Rocketry/Satellites/Refrigeration (or just get it from Internet by default). Pre-build workshops everywhere. Profit.

But what if I lose the Internet? And my rival techs quicker than me? Example from Shaka game attached. What would you tech here? I feel like conditions are perfect. If I can't win space here I will never win it on Deity.

Easier to stomp everyone so they can't go space themselves. Fml.

Note that in the save it's possible to win UN in 2 turns. But I'm trying to learn here.

 

[Pedro78]

Toku T49 (2040BC) :

Spoiler :

Went worker -> 2*Warrior -> Settler at size 4 -> whip a worker into another settler

Settled the gold spot. Went Ag - Mining - BW - Masonry - (AH). Started on the Mids, haven't calculated when I'll finish them yet, but should be early enough. Not completely safe from barbs but Kyoto and Osaka can both emergency-whip a warrior. Archery would have delayed Mids which I don't like. Second settler on his way to settle either 2S of the Fish or next to the Copper, not sure.

@Lain Winning domination looks so much easier on this map

Not a pro but :

Spoiler :

Don't forget that an AI will never trade you a tech that allows you to build a space part, even if Friendly (vassals are probably an exception, haven't tried it out).
If I lost the Internet in your case, I'd probably go kill everyone instead of going space, although a space victory might still be possible.
Labs are good, but only needed in cities that will build Engines / Stasis Chamber. If you can't get it for free, I wouldn't delay Composites for too long, because you need 5 Casings in every Space game and they still take some time to build.
With 22 cities you should be able to out-tech any AI. Maybe also ban nukes with the UN and DoW Mansa just to slow him down (haven't checked the diplo situation, but bribing someone on him wouldn't be a bad idea either).

 

[Lain]

Ok I outteched everyone easily and won space... 1846 AD. A bit underwhelming. Could have won any other VC much earlier. So are there games where space is the only viable option? Because I'm not sure why I should even try. Easier to stomp everyone or just win UN.

Spoiler :

 

[Pedro78]

Well idk... Space is definitely more fun than UN right? I used to go space all the time, I don't think I've actually ever won a true UN victory (except those where your votes + vassals are enough to win).