Deity Isolation Workshop (Stan/Norm/Fractal/NH/NE)

[Fippy]

Yep

I edited my post above a bit, will play this out when the Civ bug bites me again ~~
Think it's def. winnable, those are not great cities but most have some kind of food so good enuf for whipping an army with 8 of them.

More maps like this one please

 

[Lain]

I reached early Optics like this with Hannibal, but I actually had grassland cottages and stuff. What am I doing wrong? Maybe techs like Monarchy is slowing me down. But slightly later Optics with bigger cities is also not necessarily bad I guess?

Pottery before Bronze Working can be a good move more often than not I think (opposite to Pangaea where I rush to block land).

Somehow I get worse results with Pyramids. Toku game was also pretty hard for me despite getting that wonder.

 

[Fippy]

Pottery was my first tech after AH, for river cottages. Did not matter much that they are plains.
Also Edirne with 3 of those cottages helps, no food of it's own but i always try making use of rivers fast in such games.

I think the key for this kind of gameplay is thinking small, 1 more happy cap would have been helpful but it was not worth teching Myst + x + Ph + Monarchy for me. ~700 beakers, already as much as MC.
When i look at seafood cities, 1 more happy without Caste would only gain more seatiles.
Other cities not had more growth potential, Cap at 5 was fine and Edirne with Cows + 3 cottages stagnated.

Overall it's taking a long time to make up for teching Monarchy, yup.
I agree that bigger cities at Optics / Astro can make up for that, but here i did not see many benefits for doing so.

 

[Fippy]

Hmmm i just thought, i never really used Jans.
The only unit of that age with no 25% bonus against seems to be other Muskies?
Should be good enuf along with Trebs for at least 1 AI? Tempting to try ~~

It's also interesting that you can bulb Gunpowder after Guilds, if no CS (paper), no Philo techable (avoiding Medi should be good) and hmm..that's it? Engineering needed ofc, but that for Trebs too.

 

[Fippy]

I think this will be a funny game, going with that gunpowder bulb & Jannisary plan

Just what you would expect for relations, with this crowd..Mansa getting destroyed

Spoiler :

I traded for lots of stuff, CoL..Monarchy (by selling Cathys CoL to Mansa lol)..Feuda from Bully who i just met.
Even Shaka contributed something, he has paper /shocking and i sold him maps for gold.
Civic switch was HR + Caste, i need some great peoples points for a GS (gunpowder) here

Spoiler :

Now they all have similar techs, not trading for Construction with Mansa..maybe i can get parts of Engi from him for Optics

Spoiler :

Missing 2 AIs, but so far Cathy looks like she will be clear AI leader. Getting shared Civic with her from HR will be useful.
Curious how Jans & Trebs will do, Mansa will be long vassaled before i could get something of his cake ~~
Sadly i sacrificed slavery for the bulb, until i can switch back (and add Vassalage), so army buildup will be from the start when reaching techs.

 

[Lain]

Cool that you are trying this . I want to see how it works out.

I never really attacked before cannons. Not enough production (some cities just settled before Optics) and also, I am always scared of oversea maintenance from capturing cities.

 

[Fippy]

Think i reached a key point in my game
For some reason, Mansa never capitulated to Cathy or Shaka..so i took one (good) city from him now, with my less than scary "army" lol.

I could bribe them both off him with Astro, and try to take his remaining cities for myself.
Ofc it's a problem that Cathy (and Shaka, maybe) are already starting to tech away.
If i not bribe them off, i would think Mansa capitulates next turn.
Side note, i already consider it successful getting that far

 

[Lain]

Yup, good job getting this far for sure. So what do you think about Jans? I just think they come at such an awkward time. At that time it's just two techs until cannons anyway~. Can still use them for stack defense though.

Cathy looks a bit scary in your game. Hmm. But bribing them off and capping Mansa yourself won't do much good for diplo situation? Wipe him out for some land at least? Not easy I think.

 

[Fippy]

Hmm i would say Jans are really good, the problem are Trebs against Castles if you have no time
They killed 2 Mansa longbows with almost 100% city defense bonuses left, 3 Trebs barely scratched his Muskie but i lost no Jan.

Will play on without bribing them off, yep.
I think waiting for cannons would have made things worse, only ~200 beakers research and on this map every big city captured helps cos those on our cute desert continent are so small.

 

[Fippy]

Quick update for you Lain, i cannot find much motivation for naval invasions currently (enjoying the isolated aspect before more, esp on such hard maps).
Keeping the game thou until i feel tempted, any tips on how you keep motivation up for sea transport of units?

 

[Lain]

I keep motivation because I still don't know if I can win. So I want to find out and keep playing . I am not good enough yet to play until Astro and say: "Okay, game is won, now it's boring."

Hm, normal Cuirs games on Pangaeas are harder to finish for me. Because I did it 1000x times and know that I can't lose anymore... only fun until 1 AD. But isolation, naval invasion and stuff... usually tough fights until 1800s AD

For example, take my position here from that Brennus game. Try to win the war and manage diplo etc. It's really hard. One wrong move and whole stack is gone (Toku beelined cannons ofc...). With better play I could attack probably 1100 AD and then it's boring because I fight vs Longbows.

Though the game went really bad after 800 AD or so... had to self-tech Guilds, Engineering, Gunpowder, Chemistry + Steel. Nobody traded anything. With Mansa in the game I attack much earlier and take that whole continent by now.

Really fun game for me~.

 

[Berks]

Hi Fippy - hope you find motiviation to finish that game , a victory screen on that map is a great accomplishment IMO.

Lain, shocked to hear you think the Brennus game is harder given the Mehmed island, although it seems like the RNG certainly stacked everything against you in an already marginal starting spot (take this as a sign you are ready for Sid level )

 

[Lain]

Just to keep the thread alive, I want to share something from my current practice game. Playing a bit with the Shuffle map script lately. Seems totally unbalanced so far. Love it.

Got Willem with a kind of slow start. 760 AD I am closing in on Gunpowder, everything pretty standard.

Spoiler :

My beaker rate always suxx. And probably no Engineering trade again, gg.

But there is a lot of free land to settle. Now I wonder if I should go for all of it myself or no? It will probably slow down attack date (maintenance, investment into settlers). What is the best approach here?

Also, who to attack? Feeling brave, maybe Toku. Or Victoria and win diplo chicken style.

 

[Fippy]

Wish i could still finish "normal" games like years ago, but seems this time has passed for me
If it's not sgotm, or gotm i really struggle getting thru the weak late game.
Yep you heared that right, imo Civ4 is very average after some time has passed burn me on a stake

 

[Lain]

Easy UN win, but I still don't understand the voting thingy... game says, Toku won't vote for me yet.

Spoiler :

But then he goes and votes me winner. Toku votes at "Pleased"? Sounds so wrong.

Spoiler :

I looked at all the AI spreadsheets (+Know your enemy profiles), but nothing explains voting behavior.

 

[Snowbird]

Easy UN win, but I still don't understand the voting thingy... game says, Toku won't vote for me yet.

But then he goes and votes me winner. Toku votes at "Pleased"? Sounds so wrong.

I looked at all the AI spreadsheets (+Know your enemy profiles), but nothing explains voting behavior.

AI votes at certain + attitude (+10 or more likely +11). Normally that is friendly, except averaging with vassal. as far as i get attitude averages with vassal, while voting does not.

Ask someone who knows vassal crap better fr further details.

 

[elitetroops]

Yeah, the threshold is a certain attitude, not that they must be friendly. I think in some cases they could also be friendly but attitude not high enough to vote for you.

 

[Lain]

So it's +10 or +11 not counting the hidden modifiers then? Because some AI will be friendly, others won't (caused be "first impression"). Seems pretty straightforward. Thanks.

 

[Snowbird]

So it's +10 or +11 not counting the hidden modifiers then? Because some AI will be friendly, others won't (caused be "first impression"). Seems pretty straightforward. Thanks.

I think +11 line includes hidden (don't these range from +2 to -1?). At+10 with hidden modifiers and no vassal stuff involved AI ought to be friendly, no?

 

[Lain]

So I picked up that trainwreck Mao map again to practice a bit. Feel like I am doing better than before, but 55 beakers @ 375 BC can't be a good sign? What could have been done better here and how to continue? Even with massive failgold we are looking at a late Optics. Especially if I am making detours for Math, Alpha, Monarchy and CoL. Sigh. There is just no commerce.

Spoiler :

Any input @Rusten, since you know the map? I tried to use your suggestions, but it's looking dire.