Deity Isolation Workshop (Stan/Norm/Fractal/NH/NE)

[Lain]

So Fippy, would you suggest a minimalistic approach here? Because I played around with Aesthetics and it doesn't work at all (for me). Late Optics, too late Astro. Maybe just Alphabet and go Optics.

I even went Alpha+Math and bulbed Optics with GL scientists, but 700 AD+ Astro is not acceptable imo. My cannon attack would come realllly late. Only luck if it works..

 

[Izuul]

It feels like you need so many techs early in the Mao game. The barbs are brutal on this map, but going for Archery is just two more out-of-the-way techs to research when you already need so many other things.

HR doesn't seem worthwhile here. The only cities worth growing large would be in the south and it's difficult to get them early enough. I'm also not sure even going for Myst and Masonry is worthwhile. Myst (with no research bonus) and Masonry (40% bonus) costs around 180 beakers. Marble is only 2c better than a grass hill mine so you would need to work that tile for 90 turns for it to pay off. The only thing that might make Masonry worthwhile is Pyramids fail gold, but i think to do that you would have to go for it relatively early and delay Alpha which seems like a bad idea if you are going to pursue Alpha.

Early tech path? I like Fishing first while building a warrior followed by a WB and BW. After that you need Wheel, Pottery, and AH in some order. That might depend on whether you need to settle the copper site first due to barbs (not just to get copper, but it also seems like it's easier to grab that spot while blocking the south with a warrior on the FPH in the mountain pass.) Pigs + copper + tundra cottages actually isn't too bad.

 

[Fippy]

Not sure yet, Lain
Trying and my first goal was defending against barbs without much luck involved, so horsie city first and now copper while directing them there with blocked mountain range. I hope those coastal spots will bring in enuf for their costs.

Now i want to look for some ToA failgold, with Poly after masonry.

 

[Lain]

Thanks for the thoughts. This map has haunted me for 6+ months now. I mean I got into "winnable positions", but 1300 AD Steel I don't consider a real win .

Would appreciate a lot if you played this to Optics. And discuss your approach . You already started a lot differently, so it's very interesting. Hmm, rivers not worth it?

I will try a 4-city-Alpha play next time... I don't believe in Aesthetics line with poor commerce anymore. 300 BC Great Library etc is just not safe and it doesn't speed up Optics... only good thing is that you can bulb Chemistry later. But meh. And yes, HR probably doesn't pay back here either.

 

[Fippy]

I think river cities are good, but could not go south cos of barbs.
Would require much more fog busting than i did, but i considered the cost & risk too high.

 

[Fippy]

Some plans in pics
Workers around Bejing are (pre) chopping for Poly & ToA.
It's not really safe starting failgold there at turn ~70, but often works cos it's not a wonder they start building super early usually once Hindu is taken and not all AIs have Poly.

Spoiler :

Copper city has Axe at 1t, but c3 chariot can hold against 1 archer for workboat first timed with culture. Shanghai standing still for now anyways, so building a settler for south. Besides rivers that area seems forest rich. Bejing focusing on commerce so i can get Poly in 4t.

One problem i see is that i will need slavery for Bejing library later, by chopping away those forests for ToA.
But i thought that's okay cos Shanghai can also use slavery with Pigs.

Will try posting detailed as it's really a tuff map, and all details or new ideas count

 

[Fippy]

Failgold machine is running, my little troop of land securing units moved out, and i hope all this will result in better times later

Some turns later, Bejing switched to worker and holds growth

Spoiler :

My 2 workers focus their attention on chopping ToA in copper city now, and improving Shanghai pigs.

Spoiler :

 

[Fippy]

Pyras get built, we can yay our way towards writing with failgold, and it's a good time to think about where we want to place city #5
(and i need a break too)

 

[Lain]

Thanks a lot for playing! Failgold is working out well .
Big question, what comes after writing? Seems really tough.
Aesthetics for more failgold to support expansion? 5 cities are already quite expensive.

Edit: Danger of barb galleys spawning in the north soon.

 

[Fippy]

Good you remind me, darn barb galleys
Wanted to keep my water city warrior at 14/15 for some more time, but yup he has to fogbust.

I think Aest is not that good, having cleared many forests already for ToA.
Leaning towards Alpha, and i should make a city plan before playing on with what tiles or scientists i want them to use at size 4.
Have an opinion on where to use my settler, considering Alpha & towards Optics afterwards?
I could also delay completing him, if not ready yet for another city..hmm.

 

[Izuul]

For reference, 5th city cost was about 10 GPT when i tested in world builder. You can probably get that to pay off eventually, but it hurts for awhile after settling it. A new city is usually only generating 2 or 3 commerce at size 1. It's also more problematic when the happy cap is 4. A typical size 4 city probably has 1c from trade route, 1c from city tile, 0-1c from primary food resource, and we will say 3c (or beakers) from each citizen beyond that working either cottages or scientists. That's about 12 beakers best case, 15 with library bonus. Maybe a couple more with Alpha and building research.

FWIW i wanted to try going for more techs when i played last night and i ended up getting Alpha, Masonry, and Monarchy. I knew Monarchy was unlikely to be worthwhile, but went for it anyway, and it resulted in 760 Optics. I still only had 4 cities as the 5th was tough to justify at the time. When i try the map again I'm going to skip all of that except probably Alpha. Beijing has too many hammers and too little commerce to pass on Alpha i think. Plus there's also the copper tile and such.

 

[Fippy]

Okay, high cost for sure..
think i want to settle 4s of marble on that ph, grabbing some green river tiles and forests that would otherwise not be used later.
But at minimum i should wait for 2 workers being ready & road prepared.

 

[Lain]

Yes Izuul, it looked similar in my attempts. I am not happy with a late Optics date like that. I mean, it might be fine under different circumstances, but with only 4-5 cities and no infrastructure it can't be good.

Curious to see what can be done with just Alphabet. Either that or Monarchy and cottage up the whole river (capital has some grasslands aswell I guess), not both. But I am not boarding the Aesthetics train anymore. Until someone convinces me it's actually helping here . But that whole Alpha thing proved viable in the Saladin game. The land here is not worse, so... should work?

Fippy, I would probably wait a bit on the 5th city, yup. Looking forward to what you do

 

[Fippy]

Turn 88 the big moment arrives, we are rich rich rich..well..costs caused by fogbusting units are not funny at all on this map.

 

[Izuul]

Monarchy without Alpha might work. You could justify picking up Masonry that way too I think. It's more expensive than Alpha though and each additional size you grow is costing 1gpt for the unit cost and 15H that could've been 15 beakers with Alpha. Might be worth looking into though.

 

[Fippy]

..aaand at 325BC, the mad but glorious Mao empire almost built up..just waiting for 1 library chopped to unleash it's tremendous research potential
(adding the alpha turn save, all looked very much still messy there)

Please can i turn your attention towards our galley fogbusting worker.
Wonder what i should do with my first GS, hmm..

 

[Izuul]

Wonder what i should do with my first GS, hmm..

Delete him - too expensive.

Well you have enough gold banked for ~13T of research. You should be able to get IW and MC in 11T, maybe 10T if your BPT picks up a bit. That should get you a little ways into Compass before you have to start teching at 40 or 50%.

You might be able to get Optics around T140 (600 AD) depending on what kind of beaker growth you can get. That's pretty interesting. I'll have to look at my save when i get home but i swear TOA was built early enough that i never could've gotten any fail gold from it.

I'm glad you did you something different.

 

[Fippy]

lol, i built an academy..probably a waste
Giving ~11 beakers while i have gold, but when it runs out settling might have been better.
Thou the academy should give more with Astro.

 

[Izuul]

I used my scientists to spawn bust

 

[Fippy]

Such an e(xc)lusive task for smart peoples.
You are right as usual, 600 AD optics ~~

I guess it's something, with 5 cities.
Doubt this map allows much faster

Looking back, i would probably bulb Optics thou (and tech maths)..that academy lol, and well it's far from guaranteed that you can still trade for maths here anyways.