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Deity OCC Science Victory - G&K Strategy and Tips

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Sadato, Jul 2, 2012.

  1. DGDobrev

    DGDobrev Warlord

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    Actually, the city states screens show what kind of resources the city state has access to. If it hasn't improved a specific resource, it doesn't provide it.

    In any case, I'd like to thank the creator of this strategy. I learned a lot about the game simply by playing OCC in Immortal and Deity using this strat. Last game was Sweden on Immortal - great start, but very difficult to defend because of the miles of flat ground. Still, it ended in a Turn 273 victory, the quickest one yet... Could have been sooner, but I had no coal and aluminum, and there was noone to provide it for a long time... I am not so good with planning culture points and getting a good median, so... I am pleased by the success :)
     
  2. DGDobrev

    DGDobrev Warlord

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    And one more comes from me, pretty much as a tribute to the OP, I feel like I gotta share :)

    I got my first Deity win on T243 with Babylon by following the ToA opening tactic. My starting location was good, but as I moved my warrior, I saw Darius' second settler, so it was obvious I should give him some space, so I moved to the nearby mountain, settling on turn 3 (which, of course is far from perfect). However, it was worth it, as I settled on top of sheep, which allowed for good production and decent defense (only 3 tiles to attack the city from the south and only 2 from the north, thanks to the mountains). The desert was everywhere, so I geared up for a Petra rush.

    The thing is, I had the worst neighbors: Darius, Alexander and Oda. All of them are early rushers, and hit hard and fast - it is even worse on deity, as every AI starts with 3-4 units, 2 settlers, at least 1 worker, and tons of tech as bonus. I was feeling ready to throw the towel and try a new game, but I thought "what the hell, might as well try it". I just felt it would be a shame to throw 2 a desert start with oasis and 2 wheat tiles, river, sheep and 3 gem mines - not to mention I could settle in the canyon, where only a few units could attack.

    I had my lone warrior scouting Darius, and he was cranking out a new unit every 3-4 turns, which got me worried a lot. However, I had an unexpected help - the Freaking El Dorado, God love it!!! That allowed me to hard buy Granary + Worker, and while Writing was researching, to build the Shrine too. With a planted GS Archery is only 3-4 turns, so I went for a ToA opening and finished it on T36 (!) during which time I sold the gems to the Vikings and Siam and bought the Library so that I don't accumulate much gold and don't lose time. As I painfully learned in this playthrough:
    - Deity AI DoW's you if you have too much gold (as they expect you to give it to them as a buyout from the war)
    - Deity AI DoW's you if the covet your lands (and suffice it to say, Darius, Oda and Alexander started coveting them right at the start)
    - Deity AI will DoW you often if you have Swords into Plowshares belief to negate your advantage.

    I had my doubts I would manage with GL, as any AI would surely have Writing pre-researched (and I have to waste 18-22 turns on it, unless I pop a ruin, which is very rare), so ToA was ok. I got it, the El Dorado helped a lot, but I popped only 2 ruins - 1 pop and 1 upgrade for the Scout to bowman. And then Darius invaded on T40 with 6 warriors and 5 archers, when I myself had only 2 Archers - so thank God for the location. I bloodied his nose a bit (no chance for early rush against a city on a hill unless you do it right) and offered him a 1-gold Peace Treaty, which he found generous :D
    Unfortunately, since I had the Greeks, Alexander built the Oracle, and that hindered my efforts quite a bit - I got my first GS point on Pisa, which reduced my chances of getting 1 GS before medieval era. I had to go with HG before Petra just because I had so much production and nothing to spend it on. I was constantly DoW'ed by Persia, Greece and Japan, so the first 100 turns were a hard struggle for survival. Darius even CoD'd me once and I saw my capital hitting the red zone, and I had to buy myself out again.
    Things started falling in place after Industrialization. Right after education, I had to go for a Machinery rush to survive (I was freaking envious of Sadato and his T149 screen where he still had his ordinary bowmen - and is such a location, where a CoD would be lethal), and then to Pisa, PT and Industrialization (otherwise I was toast). However, after I got the Gatlings, Darius finally decided to make peace with me and we became great buddies till the end. Oda eventually whittled Greece down to 1 city (and that was yet another awful Greece performance by the AI that I witnessed!). From this point on it was only beating Oda back regularly (he never made peace with me, even started denouncing - dunno what for, never did anything to him but ask friendship) and researching.

    At the end only Siam was a threat - he built Appolo in 1230 AD (!!!) and cranked 4 parts out in no time. I got it later, thanks to the unwilling Persia, Japan and Viking ro RA with me. Still, it was a hot race to the finish line. Everyone was well equipped for it - AI with lots of cities, me with ToA + HG + Petra (good growth for specialists) + Rationalism and PT, and to boot I picked the Desert Pantheon (I thought it was a heresy to have like 15+ desert tiles to work and pick fertility rites), I also managed to buy 3 GS to help my efforts later on. The freaking Long-name nutty professor who cares for the people even built a 4th part, so thank god I placed my best spy in his capital to check on his progress - I even shaved him off a few techs (he was unhappy, but he already signed the RA 2 turns ago, so no going back, buddy) to level the playing field, as he built his 5th part while I was doing boosters. I thought the game was lost, but thankfully, he hadn't developed the tree to Nanotech at all. I was so relived to hear that "we eclipsed them", I even opened a beer :D

    In any case, that freakingly tough game with my poor Babylon found between the hammer and the anvil ended on T243 with a science victory. Could have been sooner, but I am not so good with Medians and such, and I also lost a few turns from RA's (not signing a new one right away), and of course I was helped by Japan's erratic behavior, who never became friendly to me. OH come on, you pissed off cause I destroyed the 12 samurai units you sent me one by one through the canyon? Is that it???
     
  3. joyodongo

    joyodongo Chieftain

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    I don't understand this well: you mean that you can build an observatory in a city next to a hill (not mountain) with the Pachacu's mountain on it?
     
  4. DGDobrev

    DGDobrev Warlord

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    No. Since Pachacuti has a hill bias, there is bound to be a mountain somewhere close, which will allow you to settle next to it, and since you have hill movement, you won't lose much time at all, as your settler moves twice as fast. As the Incas have terrace farms, you will also enjoy big food bonus on a terrain that the AI will find hard to move into, which in term, helps your Capital's defense.
     
  5. Arilian

    Arilian King

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    DGDobrev:

    Can you please upload this save?:)
    Thank you.
     
  6. WiseGreen

    WiseGreen Warlord

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    It's not necessarily a bug. If the coal was on a hill, it might mean only that the city-state didn't have access to Industrialization yet, and had simply mined the hill. Once the CS researches the tech, it (and you) should instantly have access to the resource.
     
  7. DGDobrev

    DGDobrev Warlord

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    Too late, it is already gone... but so far the current game is going ok. Again Babylon, with Washington right at the doorstep - I had to buy my tiles while we were at war, otherwise he would have claimed them - and the maniac even deems me unworthy of trust if I do even if he does it just like this... Lots of desert, a river, a lone mountain and great options with Petra. I couldn't get ToA, but got swords into plowshares after Washington became friendly and so far everything's going ok - with a capital of 28 pop on T170 things are looking rosy :)

    The thing is I play for fun and save over the same 2 files I made since I bought this game... I kinda like the Ironman rules, where no going back is allowed when you do the blunder.

    aaaaaaand this game ended in a T230 win. I bet I could have shaved at least 10 turns off it, cause I wasted turns for belated RA signings, I did not plan my gold properly too, and my median planning also sucks :) Still, it was a good game. Bought Washington off with 1 gp from the war, but got all the tiles he wanted to buy (had I left him run his horse around, I would have been at least 5 tiles short on the southern border).

    I also got the beakers bug, but I hope I had it earlier :D It showed up right after future tech, when everyone was already finished. As you can see on the T220 screen, everything was still within normal parameters :)

    In any case, I had a blast with this challenge and if anything comes out of it, it is that petra + growth + diplomacy rule the OCC :p

    P.S. Don't mind the GDR at the end... I bought it just to see how it looks and got disappointed.

    GOLIATH ONLINE!!! GO ahead, Terran-com? (Starcraft pun intended)
     

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  8. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

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    OCC and Deity, of course there has to be someone that did it.

    Doubt the time though.

    Some saves or pics would be nice?
     
  9. DGDobrev

    DGDobrev Warlord

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    I can provide my last one, but there are a few things you need to know :)

    1. I bought the DE version of the CD's as I live in DE.
    2. I made sure I don't allow the game to upgrade over version 1.0.1.674, cause there was an EN language file for it. My German is quite fluent, but I play English games since 1997, so I am so used to it, that I got a file for this version and I play it for now. If I see a meaningful patch, I will sacrifice myself and get it and play it in german.
    3. Dunno if the DE version with EN patch will run for you :)
     
  10. joyodongo

    joyodongo Chieftain

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    Nice tactic. I got with it quite easily my first wins ever at inmortal.
    Nevertheless, I just can't figure out how it can be done in 202 turns. I got the win with Korea in T286 (no observatory) and with Incas in T307 (observatory). No delaying wars in any of them. I normally had nearly +690 research points per turn and 3/4 RA going, but anyway... I don't know what I did "wrong". I suppose you're playing in standard speed, aren't you?.

     
  11. DGDobrev

    DGDobrev Warlord

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    Yes it is standard. However, I think the 202 was based on the beakers stockpile bug which I also got, just too late :) It is not at all possible to have the Future tech research for 1 turn when it costs like 10k beakers.

    You also have a big military, I guess they were giving you trouble most of the time :) Your location is also quite bad, with so many civs around you that could be trouble.

    EDIT: Woe and behold, I can now upload saves without trouble, with the last patch, and in English. The solution was perfectly logical, but I never thought of that. Just switch the language of the Steam client to English, and it will do the rest... Now I have all my games I wanted in English :D
     
  12. joyodongo

    joyodongo Chieftain

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    I had a big military... just in case, but I was never attacked.

    In fact, now I'm trying at Deity. The main difference with inmortal, apart from all the advantadge the AI civs get at the beginning, seems that you get most of the times attacked between T30 and T60 by another civ. After you repel the attack/s, how do you deal with the war? Pay them ALL of your money to get peace or be at war with them all game?
     
  13. DGDobrev

    DGDobrev Warlord

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    The best option is to get friendly with them ASAP. Repel their initial attack - should be easy with a few archers, unless you built your city on a flat terrain which minimal defenses. Then make peace ASAP. You will have to give all your gold, so make sure you buy buildings, upgrade stuff or if you have way too much, give it to one or more of the friendly civs for GPT. If the war comes when you are saving for the first wave of RA's, well, you have to bite it a bit and wait till education's complete.
     
  14. Largio

    Largio Chieftain

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    Thanks for this guide! I got my first real deity victory (thinking duel map with the mongols is a bit cheesy).

    I played with Babylon and won on turn 252. Standard Pangaea and the funny thing was that nobody DOWed my during the whole game and everybody was friendly almost the entire game. With so many DOF's it was hard to get enough money for all the possible RA's. It was so peaceful that i didn't bother upgrading my troops and finished the game with 1 warrior and 5 composite bowmen.

    Overall it was pretty decent game but failed at generating a GE for Hubble which I had to hard build. Accompanied with hard building Statue of Liberty for some stupid reason (maybe production) got into a situation where I already had all the necessary techs by the time I finished Apollo. Could have shaved some turns skipping SoL. One AI got Apollo turn before I did but didn't build any parts. Also my capital was lacking food and wasn't able to ally maritime city states so my capital ended up being size 21.

    Also a minor detour to Currency tech path slowed my phase. Had pretty lucrative location for Petra, but AI got it on turn ~60 or something crazy. I was couple turns away from researching currency by then...
     
  15. Uberswank

    Uberswank Chieftain

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    Hey I just registered to say nice guide. Won it at turn 245 on Deity, Pangea 8 civs, 16 CS. Was attacked by russia but a few MGs put her in her place. Was nice with everyone else and had a ton of RAs.

    I've never been good at any of the civs, but i really understand the ins and outs now that i've used these tips.

     
  16. DGDobrev

    DGDobrev Warlord

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    Good work, Uberswank! :)

    Time to post one of my own. I had a great game with Babylon over these last few days, managing to tech well and win on T227, beating my previous best by 3 turns. The starting location was ok, allowing me to settle next to a mountain in a desert area on the following turn. The bad news is that Ethiopia and the Huns are nearby, and they both DoW'ed me once during the early game so I had to beat them back with plenty of Bowmen and a Pikeman or two. That didn't stop me from getting NC and beelining to Currency for Petra. With Petra + Oracle I had a great game going. Since Austria stole my +1 Faith/Desert tile pantheon, I was forced to play with 10% Growth - not that I complain, as Austria spread their religion in my capital just in time to allow me to buy a GE for Hubble.

    Weirdly enough, both my early wins come from desert bias with Petra - but this start is much, much better as I had 2 rivers around my capital and plenty of floodplains to go with, which explains my well-grown capital city - could have been more, but I stopped all growth and turned all-specialist when I entered the endgame (around T195) where everything had to be done ASAP and every RA had to be fully utilized.

    So, here are a few screens and the save game, if anyone's interested. It is as the OP played it - Pangaea, Standard. Note that:
    - Policy saving is activated - as protection from double-popping a culture ruin, as it destroys the Rationalism jump and hinders you big time. Also allows me to try the save again under different conditions.
    - Random seed is activated - I always do, because I like to replay my good saves and I don't want to have everything the same way it was before. It's kind of a cheating to know what happens and when does it happen.
    - OCC in NOT activated - so that I can replay with a few cities if necessary and see what happens.
    - Quick combat and quick movement is activated, cause I hate wasting lots of hours watching animations :)

    In any case, this game was a blast :) There is only one thing left that bothers me - I kept a spy in my capital to fend off other civs spies and I wonder if I should have done it at all. Being miles away on the tech curve isn't necessarily a good thing, as you want a decent civ for a friend for RA's. Maybe I should have just let them steal at will... I know I will beat them to Space victory anyway. I guess it is worth the try.
     

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  17. Mystz0r

    Mystz0r Chieftain

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    I really like this guide, has given me some valuable input and new options.

    Random questions: where do you guys prefer settling your GS's? I can never decide. I hate when they "cost" 2 food from a tile with farm+fresh water, but I also hate when i have to live with a tile giving only 1 food. In my last game (where I more or less followed this post to the dot), I settled them on plains cows, costing "only" 1 production. What do you guys think?
     
  18. Calouste

    Calouste Deity

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    Settle them on tiles where an improvement gives the least additional benefit. For most of the game, those are non-fresh water grassland or plains, where it only costs one food until Fertilizer, or hills, where it only costs one hammer until Chemistry. Settling them on cows costs 2 production if you have Stables. Plain Desert tiles if you have Petra are ideal.
     
  19. Calouste

    Calouste Deity

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    I tried this with the Inca, and if you have some decent location for Terrace Farms, I think Construction before Philosophy is the way to go. 4 food 2 hammer tiles are just too good at that stage of the game.
     
  20. Uzumati

    Uzumati Chieftain

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    Well done guide. Always play King level in games, and this showed me so much more in game play. Finished on turn 248, with ToA, SC, Pisa, Oracle, PT, Hubble, no desert start as Inca. Money was very short but always seemed to have some. What saved my bum alot was the loans. Diplomatically and economically it was vital. Not one DOW, and finished three parts ahead of Austria who was behind me. The RA's were sick. One minute I'm a era behind and then I'm doing one turn Future techs over and over. Very fun game, one of the best I've played. Thank you. :goodjob:

    Edit: I managed to get FOY a short distance from me. So nice, since I never really upgraded my army past Pikeman and XBows. Also, was lucky to get the 10% growth Pantheon, plus ToA. I can see why your heart jumps when your neighbor's build Manhattan Project. Rome and Austria built it early and made me sweat. I never needed to finish the Rationalism tree either.

    I highly suggest players who aren't very adept like me to use this guide. It showed me so much; things I never did before.
    I never times a GP before, and my first attempt I got a GA, GE, and a GS all mid game, all at once. Was very hot. Also, who would have thought the AI is so useful. I always ignored them unless I DOW them or sold some Lux's. Never knew about loans. This really helped me alot in seeing better ways to play.
    2012-09-13_00001.jpg 2012-09-13_00002.jpg

    Here is my start if anyone wants to play it as well.
    View attachment Pachacuti_0000 BC-4000.Civ5Save
     

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