[BTS] Deity One City Challenge on a Huge map with 18 civilizations

[valergrad]

Probably if we want to start with Oracle + Pyramids the only option is Lui.
Otherwise Lui will definetely build it himself: he will have one city and access to stone and marble, he will build this wonders 100%.

 

[krikav]

Looks like a nice spot too!

 

[Heathcliff]

Wonders are probably impossible with 17 opponents

 

[mscellaneous]

Many years ago I played this Deity OCC AW game that was a lot of fun. The initial idea was to win by conquest using Mech Inf. Early wonders + settled GPs + Representation were used to boost research. If you're aiming for a diplo win (and assuming teching to Mass Media) it might synergize with a Louis start.

 

[NothingBesideRemains]

Wonders are probably impossible with 17 opponents

OCC has the benefit of forgoing the need for Settlers, so you really can dedicate some early hammers to win wonders, especially with stone and/or marble.

 

[krikav]

@mscellaneous That map looks like a lot of fun!

 

[Heathcliff]

I tried a game as Montezuma on immortal and settled Kansas and gave techs and adopted merc to keep Roosevelt friendly.
And started to press end of turn going for a spaceship.
But Qin got to big on other continent and launched the ship before me at 1920ish, I was 20 turns too late.
If you are lucky that strategy is possible on immortal, but dont think it can work on diety.

 

[Heathcliff]

The other strategy I can think of is getting alot of vassals and let them win the game for you. Then you can probably play most in the old world. Is that possible in OCC? It is a good strategy in normal.

 

[NothingBesideRemains]

The other strategy I can think of is getting alot of vassals and let them win the game for you. Then you can probably play most in the old world. Is that possible in OCC? It is a good strategy in normal.

Army production is a huge bottleneck in OCC; even with a big tech edge, every loss hurts. Can't vassal without 2x population/land of the target AI, so with limited land, the first couple vassals you get are beaten to down to almost nothing. On Deity I doubt you could get a huge, non-pangea map military victory in OCC.

 

[valergrad]

I tried a game as Montezuma on immortal and settled Kansas and gave techs and adopted merc to keep Roosevelt friendly.
And started to press end of turn going for a spaceship.
But Qin got to big on other continent and launched the ship before me at 1920ish, I was 20 turns too late.
If you are lucky that strategy is possible on immortal, but dont think it can work on diety.

Yep, that's one additional reason why I think you should start at Europe. You need to restrain strong leaders like Qin. I mean he is not a strong leader itself, but at this map he has very good starting locations for cities and a lot of space for development. But, for example, his neighbour is Genghis Khan. Sooner or later they'll start war. We need to help to Genghis in this war all ways that we can.

 

[valergrad]

Okay... After reading all your advices looks like the best leader for playing this game is Louis XIV.
After some thoughts I've decided to play this game in this way:

1. Start will be at the 1st October.
2. The game will be 1 move per day.
This will allow me to think very well at each decision and try to play really "an optimal game". But some exceptions are possible ( we all humans).
3. Every day I'll post report about current status and my thoughts about future plans. And before taking any decisions I'll caryfully read advices from this forum - if there will be - because there are hell a lot of extraordinary players.

This finish expected about next year summer.

So, in the left three days I need do decide the starting point and the best starting strategy.
Posting Louis area again:

So, I think - the best starting point is the NE point with marble. Comparing to starting point it has 7 more food , 10 more gold but 8 less production. Production is of course important, but probably shouldn't be a bottleneck. The only problem that it lefts some space in the down and probably Isabella or Caesar will place city on Aluminium. But i think we can win cultural war with it.

And the starting strategy in plans is: Mysticism -> Meditation -> Priesthood -> Writing.
In the meantime we build Stonehenge, Pyramids and Oracle. From Oracle getting Code of Laws ( right after we finish Writing) and trade it to Alphabet ( somebody should learn it at that time and AI always trade Alphabet ) and then trade everything else.
Sounds good, right?

 

[Heathcliff]

Good luck, Brussels on the marble is a good spot. Southeast on the stone is also possible.

 

[krikav]

I was abit sceptical about NE on the marble since it has fewer usable tiles. But when I counted SiP has 3 coastal tiles and a peak, while on the marble has 4 coastal tiles.
SiP has the wheat improved one turn earlier though, and the riverside grassland marble is a sweet tile, so I think I slightly prefer SiP.
Another slight benefit of settlement on the marble is that it will faster claim the wheat and the copper east of berlin. More resources is always nice.

Do you plan to build pyramids w/o stone, or have you forgotten to place masonry in your techplan?
I like the idea of oracling CoL, the holy city 5 culture is helpful.

 

[Donald Duck1]

This finish expected about next year summer.

 

[NothingBesideRemains]

On the Marble has the benefit of getting some resource roduction bonus from oracle, if you can get masonry before you finish it. Not sure how quick oracle usually goes on this map; you might want to see if you can find some stats on that. Unfortunately looks like AH would be required as only dry wheat for AG Resources. If you can defer bronze working that might help as well.

Any chance at going early writing off AH, popping a G Sci, bulbing math and oracling Civil Service?

 

[Fippy]

I don't like SH or Oracle much in occ, priest points are among the worst imo.
Or if Oracle at least trying for something big like CS.

 

[NothingBesideRemains]

Also - if you are thinking of any other wonders (like Mids), I think SiP might be best, as the early production would really be a bottlneck. Remember you can't count on Berlin's pigs until some heavy borser pops, so that food bonus is deferred.

Horse, Marble, Stone are all great early hammer tiles.

 

[NothingBesideRemains]

I don't like SH or Oracle much in occ, priest points are among the worst imo.
Or if Oracle at least trying for something big like CS.

Isabella will surely try to spread Buddhism; have to decide if you want to try to throw Confu into the mix for diplo shenanigans. If that's a goal, an early shrine can really help.

 

[mscellaneous]

Initially I'd also settle on the marble, but then production is really poor. SIP seems way better, more forests to chop as well. As for wonders I'd skip Stonehenge, really do not see any benefits. How about taking MC from Oracle? Cheap Forge and early Engineer GPP

 

[valergrad]

Do you plan to build pyramids w/o stone, or have you forgotten to place masonry in your techplan?

Oh, yeah, forgot the masonry, of course.

Not sure how quick oracle usually goes on this map; you might want to see if you can find some stats on that.

That is a very good question. I have seen this: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/wonderdates.656787/
It shows that Oracle appears around 50-60 moves on deity ( probably because AI's don't like Priesthood ).
We have 6 religious leaders, but, luckily enough, none of them has marble.

Unfortunately looks like AH would be required as only dry wheat for AG Resources. If you can defer bronze working that might help as well.
Any chance at going early writing off AH, popping a G Sci, bulbing math and oracling Civil Service?

I thought about this. But this looks like tooo late on deity. You need in this research manually AH -> Writing -> Alphabet. 1014 bulbs in total, even if everything else you'll trade. And then build an Oracle - around 8 moves.
With mysticism -> masonry -> meditation -> priesthood you need just 536 bulbs to start building an Oracle. And then 234 bulbs to get writing.
This is something to think about... Oracling CS would be a fantastic speed up. Can we somehow understand Oracle arrival date from AI assuming we know the map?
I know there is some random in AI techs, but I believe 90% of it is not random.

I don't like SH or Oracle much in occ, priest points are among the worst imo.
Or if Oracle at least trying for something big like CS.

I am having doubts about SH too. The only reason to include it in plan - is the cultural war between Paris, Berlin, London and one additional city that will be down from Spain/Italy.
Can't understand do we need Stonehenge or not yet.

Also - if you are thinking of any other wonders (like Mids), I think SiP might be best, as the early production would really be a bottlneck. Remember you can't count on Berlin's pigs until some heavy borser pops, so that food bonus is deferred.

Horse, Marble, Stone are all great early hammer tiles.

To be honest, I don't see medieval wonders useful for this map. Do you have anything particular in mind?

Isabella will surely try to spread Buddhism; have to decide if you want to try to throw Confu into the mix for diplo shenanigans. If that's a goal, an early shrine can really help.

Yeah, agree, Isabella gets buddism and myself Confu - would be an ideal situation. With this density in this region, we soon will be one big buddhist gang, and early religion bonus also nice. And then I could spread confu to civs I don't like and want to stop, for example, China or Mongolia. ( I am not racist, they just have too much space! )

As for wonders I'd skip Stonehenge, really do not see any benefits.

Thinking about it. But we need to win cultural fight that could be a tough if Isabella will get buddhism.

How about taking MC from Oracle? Cheap Forge and early Engineer GPP

But why do we want engineers gpp? Isn't scientist's better on this map?