Deity Pangea - easy mode (no cottage)
- Thread starter soundjata
- Start date
Mainly agree, but faster development is good in iso, too. Weaker post-T40 
is compensated by having more 
which leads to working more cottages, earlier. I'd expect settling on gold re-takeover in by 1000AD at the latest, but of course depends on specifics.
is compensated by having more which leads to working more cottages, earlier. I'd expect settling on gold re-takeover in by 1000AD at the latest, but of course depends on specifics.
drewisfat
King
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I think the big commerce snowball is more significant than the smaller production/food snowball. It's basically a doubling of your commerce. Will let you rush eco techs that allow you to compound the advantage with even more multipliers. Or will let you rush a HA rush or construction rush. Or can be enough to give you some early wonder options like GLH or make the more dubious Oracle viable.
People mentioned the need to whip out of the capital. To me that usually means one early whip in for the first settler, but this can be replaced by just chopping and slow building saving the turn of anarchy without a huge efficiency loss. I don't consider the food a huge loss, because with a capital I often want to work every tile up to its happy cap. Or as Fippy said you could swap the gold back and forth between a helper city if that allows both to get some whip use in.
People mentioned the need to whip out of the capital. To me that usually means one early whip in for the first settler, but this can be replaced by just chopping and slow building saving the turn of anarchy without a huge efficiency loss. I don't consider the food a huge loss, because with a capital I often want to work every tile up to its happy cap. Or as Fippy said you could swap the gold back and forth between a helper city if that allows both to get some whip use in.
I don't think the commerce snowball is big and it isn't more significant or bigger than food/production snowball. Actually it's a melting snowball, since more cottages worked means it will catch up, so you need to use your advantage. Food/production are much more important at least pre-T50, because faster expansion snowballs to win huge amounts of /
. What eco techs are there to rush? Pottery, hardly an issue, for any leader. Yes, you'll be faster to HBR but with a weaker empire due to much slower expansion.
I don't know who mentioned the need to whip out of the capital. There is no need, but depending on the tiles it's really good especially when IMP. Chopping is not infinite and it's not like your chosen line is somehow better for chopping, you are the one using 5 worker turns for improving the gold (plus getting the worker out 2T later, so you are 7wT behind). There is no anarchy, we are SPI. It doesn't matter whether you consider the food a huge loss or not, the fact is that more food is better. Yes you can work the gold from another city, but that is forcing you to found that city and then that city is stuck working it i.e. it can't grow.
I may sound a bit annoyed here. It's because I feel I'm getting substantially underestimated and you think you can just bludgeon the pros and ignore the cons. I'd appreciate real analysis, especially from a player of your caliber.
/. What eco techs are there to rush? Pottery, hardly an issue, for any leader. Yes, you'll be faster to HBR but with a weaker empire due to much slower expansion.I don't know who mentioned the need to whip out of the capital. There is no need, but depending on the tiles it's really good especially when IMP. Chopping is not infinite and it's not like your chosen line is somehow better for chopping, you are the one using 5 worker turns for improving the gold (plus getting the worker out 2T later, so you are 7wT behind). There is no anarchy, we are SPI. It doesn't matter whether you consider the food a huge loss or not, the fact is that more food is better. Yes you can work the gold from another city, but that is forcing you to found that city and then that city is stuck working it i.e. it can't grow.
I may sound a bit annoyed here. It's because I feel I'm getting substantially underestimated and you think you can just bludgeon the pros and ignore the cons. I'd appreciate real analysis, especially from a player of your caliber.
drewisfat
King
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You're the second person to talk about my caliber in this thread, which I can't help but take as sarcasm, because I've only shared a few games won with sheer stubborn determination more than anything else. More people agree with you so far than me....so IDK why you feel like you're the dismissed one here. Certainly wasn't my intent.
My gut tells me strongly to work gold and that gold is game changing because I won't stall with low commerce. Maybe that's more of a personal weakness.
Soundjata mentioned whip issues. I imagined 4-2 being mentioned.
SPI in this particular case but I thought we were talking more generally at that point, after all we're not even allowed to cottage here.
I was thinking of eco techs like writing, currency, civil service, and any trade bait. Could think even shorter term and of situations where the sudden commerce boost can come back around to boost production/. Like being able to build pastures right away instead of mining pigs because I didn't need to skip AH. Or getting BW quicker for faster chops and the possibility of a faster great copper tile.
Chops may not be infinite but if I'm working gold early, then immediately going for quick chops make sense to hedge how far behind my settler or second worker is.
If I've resigned myself to not whip from the capital then all I need from a food surplus is to get me to the happy cap size roughly in line with when I can improve tiles.
My gut tells me strongly to work gold and that gold is game changing because I won't stall with low commerce. Maybe that's more of a personal weakness.
Soundjata mentioned whip issues. I imagined 4-2 being mentioned.
SPI in this particular case but I thought we were talking more generally at that point, after all we're not even allowed to cottage here.
I was thinking of eco techs like writing, currency, civil service, and any trade bait. Could think even shorter term and of situations where the sudden commerce boost can come back around to boost production
/. Like being able to build pastures right away instead of mining pigs because I didn't need to skip AH. Or getting BW quicker for faster chops and the possibility of a faster great copper tile.Chops may not be infinite but if I'm working gold early, then immediately going for quick chops make sense to hedge how far behind my settler or second worker is.
If I've resigned myself to not whip from the capital then all I need from a food surplus is to get me to the happy cap size roughly in line with when I can improve tiles.
Fippy
Mycro Junkie
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Guess i struggle with why one -2 tile slows down expansion snowballs and things like that?
I sometimes drop gold if it feels too slow, we are not forced to always work specific tiles.
And something else i wanted to say about Iso, happy cap comes into play there.
At some point gold will automatically be very good, when there's no need for more growth cos it cannot be supported.
xpost with Drew, was replying to Sampsa.
tile slows down expansion snowballs and things like that?I sometimes drop gold if it feels too slow, we are not forced to always work specific tiles.
And something else i wanted to say about Iso, happy cap comes into play there.
At some point gold will automatically be very good, when there's no need for more growth cos it cannot be supported.
xpost with Drew, was replying to Sampsa.
Pangaea
Rock N Roller
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I find it interesting that so many Hall of Fame games have heavily gimped themselves by using gold starts.
Very different to the premise of this thread, but I was actually thinking about a no slavery game. Interesting I then go and check the forum and see this thing. Don't now if I'll actually bother, but it would be rather different than the usual stuff.
Very different to the premise of this thread, but I was actually thinking about a no slavery game. Interesting I then go and check the forum and see this thing. Don't now if I'll actually bother, but it would be rather different than the usual stuff.
Well, if we are not allowed to cottage, then I think settling on gold is just bad. In my mind already my first post cleared that up. I get the feeling several topics were getting mixed in the discussion (this exact game with restrictions, without restrictions, without another food resource or just in general) which caused confusion (at least to me).
It doesn't. The expansion snowball you refer (I think) comes from +1Guess i struggle with why one -2
I sometimes drop gold if it feels too slow, we are not forced to always work specific tiles.
+1cc and 2T faster worker. If we could have both (the tile and extras on cc), of course we'd take it. My comment on gold tile being "junk" was clearly made tongue in cheek, I hope that was already clear.Oh they certainly haven't heavily gimped themselves. In HOF play, you can have everything. Food, better cc, gold. And because in HOF play you don't usually build workers, perhaps the effect of snowballing you gain from extra
on cc is mitigated. This discussion was about something completely else.
; 5 cities, 4 of which having gran+lib+racks.
Sorry soundjata, not really interested in the restriction, but maybe I'll play without. I remember Duckweed saying that he'd rather have strong infrastructure than cottages. I'm pretty sure most if not all modern players disagree with that.
.
-trades as my strategy would considerably gain in strength with more happies. Buddhism in one city, soon two.@soundjata
Spoiler :
rate is strong. I need to make my attack work against the biggest turtle in the game AND keep the ball rolling.
)
)
I wanted to keep my units alive by bombarding the cities to zero.
infrastructures.
