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Deity Plus 1 Classic Succession Game Sign-Up

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Stories & Tales' started by Andu Indorin, May 24, 2002.

  1. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

    Jun 17, 2001
    Hey SunTzu! It would be great to have you in a game! It looks like this one will be done soon.

    @ kev: OK, I'll play it on Saturday Morning & post tomorrow on it.

    @ Viking: Hope ya left me some Zulu to kill ;).

    Looking great, I have not had time to look at the game, but will later today!!!

    Me too :D. I may write a lot in some of my posts, but in the company of the talented writers in this Succession game, I'm the Creative Writing midget! And actually, not teh most voluminous either ;) ;).............

    If anyone has input to the general style we'd like to do (e.g., esp. Kev, who comes next), let me know by posting, and I'll try to accomodate. Otherwise, my gut (from reading Andu's and Viking's progress), I'm likely to go and get Magellan and wipe out as much AI infestation as possible.

    Flight will be the last possible tech in my science, due to loss of trade bonus. Radio and instant Airports in key inter-empire trade cities will likely result. Until then, all cities that trade will get SHs or not deliver their freight (if any). Any navy ships I make will be vets, one way or another. But I have not looked at the game yet, so those are my general tendencies: Crush, Build, and Trade.

    10 turns now, right? Any more and Kev would not have much left, metheenks.


    @ DoY: hey dude, when are you going to get a cheap PC & Civ II to join us in a game? ;) Civ 2 runs on really slow machines okie dokie, ya know. I'll post some screenies tomorrow.

    PS, and to think at one point I was worried we'd eventually need to nuke out way out of the Diety+1 hole, LOL....
  2. seanwel

    seanwel Emperor

    Jun 27, 2002
    This game is great, and the posts have been a joy to read.
  3. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

    Jun 17, 2001
    The campaign is progressing well. Some freight topped 2,000. One advance comes each day, and the TSL is 70-0-30. The Empire is growing fast. At the moment, over 3,200 net gold is taxed each turn. All the Vet Battleships have been IRB'd for about 700 in tiny frontline Port Facility cities, and some are pretty beat up after shelling AI defenders.

    In an advance or two, we will be forced to take Flight, and then begins the distant inter-empire trade routes between our big cities that have Airports and SHs... until then, the trade is most profitable with the AI civs, due to the higher bonus and Colossus. Superhighways, Colossus, and all trade squares is a real steamroller...

    The Capital: Size 36 will be it (it's 34 now), since anything larger contributes no TSL to the empire.

    The Zulu Campaign (Magellans is not captured):

    The Indian Campaign:

    Writeup to come later today, when I can get back to it.
  4. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

    Jun 17, 2001
    Here are some AD1830 stats:

    - We net over 3,200 gold per turn
    - One scientist, 0% science equals one advance per day, with massive freight fo 1,500 to alomst 2,100 (pre-flight w/colossus & SHs).
    - We have 7 Vet BBs (they cost about 700 gold each, because they are made in size one cities with Port Facilities at the front).
    - We have 80 cities now.
    - We have 73 Advances. No gifting (to obtain more gold from freight; after flight, we may want to gift the Purple somewhat).
    - 27 Factories.

    Here are the Demographics:

    And the Defense Status:

    And the Powergraph:
  5. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

    Jun 17, 2001

    ... as beaten from the scribes.

    AD1812 Mass Transit; S-Mobile Warfare; Spent 2,000 Make Vet BB, Build Roads, build freight, build SH.

    AD1814 Pollution-Veii; Cruiser-Vet-Sink 3; No Damage; DC-Bombay(Dye,1488,D); Buying Everything... Down to Zilch gold; DC-Bombay (Dye,744,N...Ooops, assumed a Repeater, and obviously only 700 means yup, sure enough, those basturds quite demanding dye ); Set 70-0-30; Build more roads

    AD1816 Mobile Warfare; S-Genetic (No more sea barbs anymore! hurrah... ); Germans & Indians sign Hanover Pact to contain American Aggression; Senate forces Cease Fire with Indians. Buy MT in DC (Taxmen); DC-Kohlpur (Dye,1524,D); Killed Barb Leader @ Valladid; DC-Rome(Silver,565,D); DC-Veii (Silver,542,D); Making Barracks; No City on map can making Silk; 1 makes Coal,Copper; 1st Vet BB produced

    AD1818 Gen Eng; S-Miniaturization; CURE FOR CANCER; Set 70-0-30; Buying Vet BBs for 700 gold each; HUT-Advanced Tribe (Sz3; Sell Granary); Pushed Kolhapur citizens into Ocean for better trade.; DC-Kolhapur (Cu,1578,D); DC-Kolhapur (Wool,1578,D); Factories coming online; Setting up Indian Chain; Spy: No Coastal Fort in Naples or Umtata (Vet BB in position now)

    AD 1820 Miniaturization; S-Computers; Germans-Japs sign Nagoyne pact; 20 Factories now; DC now has 94 trade (all tiles generate trade) & it will be size 38 with no transformations; Omaha Pollution; Met Zulu-CF?(NO!); Senate resolves; Zunguin (131g,Fundy,Anarchy); Sunk Zulu Transport (3); DC-Karachi (Dye,1620,D); DC-Calcutta(Dye,1786,D); Roading; Starting RR in Indian empire for Artillery attack soon

    AD 1822 Computers; S-robotics; Pollution-Rome; Capture - Naples(170,MK,AQ,sz9); DC-Madras(Gold,1813,D); DC-Bangalore(Beads, 1416,D); 1st Vet Tank!!;

    AD 1824 Robotics; S-Guerilla Warfare; Pollution Veii; Indians warned us to leave, then snuck attacked our non-Vet cruiser with a destroyer with a destroyer and WON; Our cruiser attacks Frigate, kills 4 (now vet); Our Vet BB cleaned all defenders out of Lahore; DC-Bombay(1734x2); Capture Lahore (LB,HB); Capture Bombay w/Armor! (116,GR,MK,AQ,SW,KRC); Calcutta w/Artillery (145,LB,W,HB); Working hard on Boston while DC grows.

    AD 1826 Gue War; S-Recycling; Fortified Vet Forest Alpine is killing tons of Zulu knights and cannon; Blasting lots of Indian navy out of water; DC-Madras(Gold,1913,D); Capture Magela (Magellans!,CL); Senate passed Peacekeeping against Zulu, Germans. Capture Kolhpur (167,LB,W,BN,HB,CL); DC-Bangalore (Beads,1416,D); Lost a Vet Cruiser shelling Gnome;

    AD 1828 Recycling; S-Labor Union; Capture-Ngome (180g,CL); DC-Delhi(Dye,1680,D); DC-karachi (1620,Wool,D); DC-Madras (Gold,1940,D); capture Madras (118,LB,CL,HB), Capture Karachi (158,BK,LB,CW,BN,UN,CL); Capture-Delhi (141,LB,CW,HB,BN,GW,LH); Senate signs Cease Fire behind my back with Indians; Build more roads

    AD 1830 Labor Union; S-Atomic Theory (no choice); Philly Pollution; HUT-Horde of Barbs(Partisans up north); DC-Bangalore (Wine,1770,D); DC-Bangalore (Beads,1416,D); Indians declared war on US; Zul Alliance; Captured Swazi (148g,CL); Capture Umfolzi (440,GR,MK,AQ,SW); Senate Forced Zulu Cease Fire; Did not force a Peace; Zulus snuck in and built an empty size one city, Genoa, next to Delhi. DC-Jaipur (2064,Silk,D); Indians activate alliance with Zulus..l. Zulus declare war! Take precharged engineers from mainland, make instant RR to Hyerabad; DC-Hyderabad (1638,Dye,D); DC-Hyderabad (2047,Silver,D); Capture Hyderabad (58,GR,MK,AQ,SW, was 2nd Capital, 7 Defenders, Sz19); Indians want Audience, I refuse, nothing more; Capture Jaipur(17,AQ,MK,GR, Sz7); Met Indian; Senate forced Cease Fire, did not force peace; The AI has no respect for treaties, but then we are "atrocious" . . .

    We now have 73 Advances.

    The scribes estimate the world to consist of this:

  6. Kev

    Kev Hired Goon

    Feb 23, 2001
    Ringwood, NJ USA
    My goodness.

    When last I played this game I was laying siege to Rome with crusaders and trying to hold it with legions!

    You guys are SO good when it comes to freight that it borders on scary. It must take a better mind than mine to be able to micromanage like you guys, that's all I have to say.

    Hey, will they have to start a new section in the HOF that includes Deity +1?

    Anyway, I'll try to play today or tomorrow at the latest. Will there be anything left for the next person...?

    Great job, all.
  7. Andu Indorin

    Andu Indorin Retired Druid

    Jan 15, 2001
    Colorado Spgs, CO
    Good job Starlifter. Looks like we've got a Power Democracy up and running. Any opportunities to use the "Emissary's Ploy" (which you can add to the Technique Thread in the GOTM thread).

    It's not so much a question of mental ability; but rather one of patience.
  8. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

    Jun 17, 2001
    Your trade will dip once you are forced to discover Flight. I recommend you Pre-Build in your major cities, like DC, do you can make an Airport on the 2nd turn after Flight (e.g, Discover Flight, Start Radio, Deliver Freight, Finish Radio, and the RB the Airports where you plan to deliver next turn).

    The overseas trade value will drop by over 50% (from 66% to 33%) with the advent of Flight, plus the source city for Overseas trade (DC) will lose 21 trade arrows (about 22%).

    Most infrastructure is pretty much under control, and only a couple cities are making significant PI's (I wanted Vet Tanks ASAP, and have only now addressed MT's in a couple cities).

    Our Military is strong, and can self-sustain the production of units in the Front Lines (with gold & RBs). The existing military is beat up in some places, esp. the BB's in the Zulu theater. They will get well quick in the cities (RB a Port Facility if you want). The Indian continent has lots of units, and I've begun converting one Vet Artillery per day into Vet Howies in the Indian cities with Barracks. The Size 1 Indian city should grow quickly to Size 2 and then 3, so you can capture it without is being destroyed. It was stuck for a long time, until I killed the Engineers is was supporting. Now it has excess food, and a microscopic food box to fill, with only one defender in it.

    In the Zulu theater, I made a couple Vet Spies by Sabotage, before I remembered we can't bribe cities. So vet spies are pretty much un-special in this game.

    BTW, you can't finish the conquering in 10 turns (hehe, or CAN you?!). But the next player probably will.

    This game is probably one of the first D+1 games that is publicly posted. I've never played above Deity before. I thought this was going to be much harder than it turned out to be, but I'm not complaining, as it was a challenge!!

    About Freight, I will say this. It took me a very very very long time to play my 10 turns. It was so hard. I almost decided to rename all the cities, but I know how much some people like real names.... but jumping in & out of a game, and knowing the location of all those new cities, is quite hard. I have a system of trade that speeds it up, esp. after Airports, but it requires naming in related groups (e.g, A01, A02, A03.... R01, R02, R03, etc...). But the system for now is when a freight is produced anywhere, send it to the capital and:

    1. Deliver it (if needed by source, source has SH, and DC demands it)
    2. Rehome it and send it to India (if demanded) or soon, Germany.
    3. Store it in related piles for future use.
    4. Rehome it and send it to a city for used after Radio, if extremely valuable (like Oil). A couple of these are awaiting the construction of Airports, outside their intended Roman cities.

    With Radio (Airports everywhere that you trade with yourself), there will be no restricted deliveries (e.g., enemy fighters that block airlifts). Just use Trade Advisor to lift the Freight to the destination, then deliver it next turn.

    In any event, there are enough stored freight to give at least 5 or 6 advances after Flight. It takes 2 or 3 freight for an advance in AD1830. At least the Capital need no micromanagement... it is totally set, after it gets an Airport (just buy the thing after it gets 40 shields).

    Militarily, I've yet to find any cites with Coastal Fortresses, so the BBs and the Cruisers have had a filed day. Well, except for one Cruiser that died when shelling Ngome (must have been attacking a vet & and a sloppy crew). A couple time, a single vet BB cleaned out 3 or more defenders on one turn! I always Spy on a city before shelling it... but the Zulus never caught on.

    I'd say we can sell our Coastal Fortresses if we get strapped for cash. There is a 2nd University somewhere that we can sell. I didn't find it, but it shows up in Trade Advisor. If you start allocating science (mine was always zero because of all the Freight science), then the Univ. might pay its way.

    We've done well with city growth, and I've put a lot of gold into Mkts, SHs, and Banks. In general, I build a Mass Transit before Offshore & Factory to eliminate pollution. Only Omaha really needs a recycling Plant (Omaha generates over 50 shields per turn). I have build no Manufacturing Plants, as more basic needs should be done before a 720 gold improvement.

    Several cities have names on them, like HOWIES, TANKS, or DUMP. Almost all cities are carefully balanced with production and trade, and no overlap anywhere is random. It is all planned, and all specifically adjusted, esp. in the 40s cities (the purple dots in the map I posted).

    Furthermore, I am converting the food in some cities into gold by using Taxmen. I do not allow a citizen to squat on a 1-food terrain. Even if there is a food deficit as a result, that citizen will be making gold or be shot. No one squats on a one food tile! Make that citizen into an Engineer, if necessary, but no lazy one food citizens.

    Many cities (esp. the ones with "extra" names) need to have their output re-homed in order to keep the right shield multiple and/or celebration. Cities that max out their population & are relatively unimportant can become DUMPs, and take a dozen or more tanks and howies in support. As long as the city does not have more unhappy than happy, it is OK.... that is why some cities have lots of Red dudes... concentrate the bad boys. We just got Shakespeare's Theatre in India, but the units in the Field have not been rehomed to it as they are busy killing the enemy. Remember, Shakespeare will stop unhappiness, but not prevent the Erosion of happy citizens necessary for the ST city to grow via WLTP.... keep that in mind ;).

    Well, so much for my non-exciting writeup..... apologies for being much duller that the rest of you. Andu and Kev in particular are veritable fountains of Creativity!!!!! Hopefully, my humdrum detail and learning how to make graphics will help atone ;) ;).


    Shall we:

    1. Continue the game to a high Deity+1 score?
    2. Build a SS & end it?
    3. Or conquer and end?
    4. Something else?

    We have 73 techs, and are getting one per day. There are about 14 techs remaining, and allowing for a skipped day while Airports get built, that likely means the player after Kev will finish the Tech Tree. Within 7 turns, we will have Space Flight & can likely make a full SS in one (or two) turns. It will take some "real time" on the construction to make sure 39-8/8-4/4/4 parts are choreographed (Kev!!), but it doable. We could postpone it if we want a higher game score.

    Well, that's about it :)

    Looking forward to the Final Solution to the German Problem (is that PC to say?! :eek: ).....
  9. Kev

    Kev Hired Goon

    Feb 23, 2001
    Ringwood, NJ USA
    Therein lies MY problem.

    This is me when contemplating playing 10 minute turns to max trade:
    :crazyeye: :confused: :mad: :cry: :p :rolleyes:

    That translates to: I give the effort, get bored, get mad, get sad, then say the heck with it and just do what I want anyway.

    This is starlifter under the same circumstances:

    Ah, just bustin' ya, starlifter - though you'd probably admit it's true. LOL

    Remember, succession games are processes that involve having different players play to their styles rather than everyone trying to play to an agreed-upon strategy. I'm usually very "macro" in my approach and enjoy the establishing of my civ and the fighting that is usually necessary in the early and mid game. I find that I totally lose it when I get to the end game, and in my own SP games I'll normally abandon the whole darn thing in order to start a whole new enterprise.

    Anyway, what I'm getting at here is that I hope you all won't be disappointed if I DON'T garner a tech every turn or build all the right airports and stuff in all the right cities. I'll try to do what's best for us the Americans, but in the immortal words of Austin Powers:

    "Thats just not my bag, baby!"

    I'm more interested in creating a storyline that I can put into text and have fun writing about. :)

    As far as how we'd like to take the end game - my thought is to do what we can and launch a ship and then see if we can't get this group together again (with maybe the addition of Sun Tzu or others) and see if we can take on Deity +2, 3, or higher!!!!
  10. Andu Indorin

    Andu Indorin Retired Druid

    Jan 15, 2001
    Colorado Spgs, CO
    Actually, I don't think that I set up this game with the Space Ship option. So, it's probably conquest or else.

    As for another game, I'm in. But, come August 10th or so, I'm moving from my benighted Colorado to the Penn State vicinity; given the logistics, I'll be out of action for about 3 or 4 weeks. (Although, State College is, more or less, driving distance from New Jersey; and Kev, you still owe me a beer:goodjob: I'll probably need one after my initial failures at a brand new job search.)

    Just hope there's a bit of the world left for me to write about.
  11. Kev

    Kev Hired Goon

    Feb 23, 2001
    Ringwood, NJ USA
    How funny as I have a business trip planned in March of 2003 that was going to take me to Colorado. I was going to make good on the beer then.

    State College is a pretty easy drive, and I'd be happy to make good on what I owe. Best of luck with your move and with your new job. Is it by chance a professor of writing at Penn State?

    Go Lions!

    I'll try to post this evening regarding the game.
  12. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

    Jun 17, 2001
    by Kev:
    If I told you how long it took me, esp. the first couple turns, to play a day in that last round, you'd probably croak. I went thru every city and every freight, but that was not the hard part. My brain is just not wired up to retain minutia like unrelated city names to geographic locations. This caused me to quit the game twice over the weekend (and is why I did not complete it on Saturday like I originally assumed I would do).

    For me, until very late game, I will not deliver any freight (or caravans) without knowing the demand locations, what similar freight is coming online, what the science beaker situation is (e.g., I must compute what the cost of teh current advance is and compare it to how much I will deliver without excessive waste), routing considerations (two freight are stuck on the Kev / Jersey island, as I never could spare the resources for a transport for them), etc. etc.

    I won't proceed in a game of strategy (even the ones we play in the Military) until I understand the field of battle... and getting spun up (e.g., up to speed) in AD1810 was a pain. To be honest, I have not played late games unless I was the one that got it to that point (e.g., I have a system in place).

    I have learned something very unexpected as a result.... I now understand why some people that can play Democracy (e.g., in the GOTMs) don't do it with more efficiency. It would take 2 months to play a full game with full trade, without using ways like city naming patterns and airports to get thru the turn quickly. Quickly to me is less than 30 minutes, with massive trade.

    BTW, GOTM18 is bogged down for me in the post AD1000 timeframe (mostly due to trade, improvement RB/PRBs, and needless Engineer micromanagement that results from not being able to use airfields anymore), and I have not touched it in a week as a result :eek: ....

    So, the real answer is that I love modern combat, love 2000g freight, love huge cities... but choke on getting going in a large game :). One thing that really saved some time was whoever before me that built the Rome to India RR.... that segment works with the GOTO function both ways. The mainland RR crosses the dateline and a single GOTO will not work from many places to the Capital. This adds a great deal of time with my style of moving freight. But with Airports, all that is pretty much moot.

    Well, we are in good shape, thanks not to my own game turns, but to the foundation laid by the players preceeding my turn. The really fun part is pounding the AI... our Battleships are not fast enought (even with Magellans) to keep up with the advancing war front.

    Because of the distance to the front now that the Indian campaign is almost done, the city of "Vet Battleship" can probably sell it's Port Facility, and that little Indian city at the south tip near Germany can IRB a PF and make 700g Vet BBs for the German Campaign, if you want a navy. The cost of RBing those BBs will drop DRASTICALLY when you hit Advance Flight, because of incremental cost of 80 --> 120 --> 160, versus the 480g that 80 --> 160 costs. Rocketry will drop it even more with the 100s AEGIS.

    Whoop those backstabbing Zulu for us... and finish the treacherous Indians. They Sneak Attacked one of your non-Vet Cruisers with a destroyer, and sunk it in the opening battle of Ironbottom Sound (see map). I could not believe it... the Cruiser was 100% healthy, and the Indian destroyer had over 33% health left when done. :eek:

    Well, have fun Kev!

  13. Kev

    Kev Hired Goon

    Feb 23, 2001
    Ringwood, NJ USA
    WHAT IF… Edgar Allen Poe had been born in the America that we created and then became president.


    By Edgar Allen Kev

    Once upon an 1830
    While I pondered weak and weary
    O’er plans for an ever-expanding war
    I could hardly keep from laughing
    For these civs that I was slapping
    Just as easily as napping
    Were as stupid as my chamber door
    An IQ of zero and nothing more


    In this year there was announcing
    In two Zulu cities we were trouncing
    With names not worth pronouncing
    When the Zulus asked us to cease
    They must have seen Gandhi praying
    While Bengal we were razing
    And figured we were brazen
    And saw they would have no release
    Quoth the Zulus: give us peace


    We have now discovered flying
    And toward radio we’re trying
    When a sudden Zulus take recycling
    From a city near the shore
    Knowing they’d be torn asunder
    It was such a stupid blunder
    For that tech ranked well under
    So many, many more
    Quoth the Americans: This is war


    So while the world was quaking
    Chittagong we felt like taking
    And for thirst of violence slaking
    We took Gandhi’s Issus as well
    How nicely I’ll remember
    The smelly Zulu messenger
    Who begged that we be tender
    As upon his knees he fell
    Begged for all the Zulus that we might treat them well
    Quoth the Americans: Go to hell


    Now with Radio in hand
    More flying was our demand
    So bombers could through the clouds then soar
    We then took Bonn and left a sentry
    As this city gave us entry
    Though small and elementary
    To an island we’ve not been before
    With dark blue cities, there were German targets galore


    As SETI reached completion
    This year saw the depletion
    Of the defenses in Cunaxa that the Zulus once fought for
    Give them credit – they kept on fighting
    And with cavalry they thought of smiting
    Cities where Americans were riding
    Tanks, which they had never seen before
    How could they fight these things that have never come before?
    Quoth the Zulus: We’re done for


    After taking four Zulu cities
    The Senate that always pities
    Called an end to this very frightful war
    We still took the German palace
    Figuring there’d be malice
    From the Zulus, harsh and callous
    And they’d attack like they’ve done so many times before
    Sure enough, there was war


    With all their cities dying
    The Zulus came on crying
    And asked if we would kindly leave
    The Germans tried as well
    And for each a city fell
    So each any everyone could tell
    There would be no reprieve
    It would be they who would this world leave


    With the Zulu palace taken
    And the Zulu people shaken
    Again they pleaded for surcease
    That stupid Senate kept on talking
    How the Americans should be balking
    Instead of former hawking
    So they offered the Zulus peace
    Did they think that this would appease?

    To keep the war in motion
    There was begun a revolution
    That became a good solution
    To the Senate’s lack of sight
    More Zulu cities fell
    And a German one as well
    So soon would toll the bell
    For Shaka will it toll as he finds an endless night
    Quoth the Americans: Let’s keep up the fight


    With a push in Germans lands
    Their fate is in our hands
    As the Zulu’s end doth also seem to be
    With the two towns left in sight
    We took them with our might
    But confirmed our one and only fright
    The Zulus still ran free
    They had a city left that we just could not see
    ‘Twill have to be my successor who avenges me


    Yup, I was right about doing a poor job in the science category. I only discovered flight (only choice), advanced flight, radio, and started combined arms. I was having some fun with the fighting, however.

    I have to say, picking up a game like this was SO different from the last time. I had no idea how the supply lines were set up and where our forces were centered and the like. I probably ruined my first few turns just trying to acclimate myself to my surroundings.

    Also, I think Starlifter turned off the city notification, so I was building things and wasn’t getting the notice of “X city has built Y” and therefore couldn’t get to the cities and change the production. I got millions of notices that cities were building stuff that they had already completed. Yikes. You must be one heck of a micromanager to do without that city notice thing ;) – unless that was a mistake.

    Anyway, I made great progress with the Zulu’s, and I even played an extra turn because I thought I’d be killing them off (the same reason I did the ‘one turn revolution’ deal). Well, they have a city named Issus out there, and that really peeved me (because I should have checked with the embassy. Duh!) I would never have done the one turn revolution otherwise. Ah, well.

    I made a great deal of progress with the Germans as well. There is a huge force on their continent so the next person should be pretty well set.

    I built SETI and managed to capture Adam Smiths as well. It was in a tiny Indian city of Naples stuck on the main Zulu continent. I don’t know HOW they got it built there, but what the hey.

    Anyway, it would seem that this is my last time of getting this game. I would really like to do another and make it even more challenging. I was surprised that this went so quickly and ended up being fairly easy.

    In succession games in the Civ3 forums, I’ve played in some that are called “Variant Games”. In these games, the players give themselves extra challenges to make the game more interesting. All players must abide by the set of rules created at the beginning.

    For example, in one game they made a rule where they were not allowed to use any units with a movement rate over 1. In another, their civ was not allowed to build ANY wonder (though they could be captured). These ideas could make things interesting for us, and there are a host of ‘variants’ that I’m sure we could come up with (we even sorta did one with the no bribing rule…).

    So onward to our next player.
  14. Flatlander Fox

    Flatlander Fox Armed Cultural Consultant

    Mar 5, 2001
    Unemployment Line
    Am I the next player? :lol:

    If so, I will warn all of you that I HATE the endgame... :)

    I am used to combat by horseback (I am a MPer!) so all of this micro stuff isn't "my bag".

    I will do the best I can though!!!
  15. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

    Jun 17, 2001
    Wow, Kev.... what a great poem!

    You dun got gud meter, rhyme, and pattern! You know how long it takes me to write poetry? Well.... longer than it takes to play late game Civ 2, that's fer sur.

    When we are done with this game, I am going to archive it somehow to preserve the writings of you guys. :)

    I have a very detailed system to speed of late game play, esp. with lots of cities. Speed up is a relative term... relative to how I assume most people would play in order to:

    1. Maximize growth.
    2. Minimize gold expenditure.
    3. Maximize shield efficiency (low waste).
    4. Maximize gold income.
    5. Minimize excess food.
    6. Waste no specialists.

    That is the normal order of management priority, once Democracy is going, esp. about in mid game. One thing that really slows me down is all those notifications.... I turn most of them off, unless I'm changing a technique (I actually have several, which are each best at certain things).

    I just reloaded that game and I see had these off:

    1. Show city improvements built.
    2. Show non-combat units.
    3. Announce order restored.
    4. Announce WLTP days.

    Sorry about that... I'll have to remember to check that when playing Succession.

    This technique is based on a real-world management technique called MBE (Management By Exception).

    Only the "exceptions" are turned on... normally, I will miss about 3% of the exceptions, mostly invalid build, which do not matter anyway, because any city I miss is not important in terms of production change, e.g., it is going from one improvement right to the next... every other turn, it will make a city improvement. This is to keep up with torrid late game democracy grwoth rates.... it is equivilent to a battle defeat if I miss even one city's growth due to lack of improvement (e.g., red face, no sewer at 12, etc.). I expect cites to grow fast, I spend lots of gold on them, and by golly, by size 20,they better be producing without pollution.... I will not allow them to languish, endlessly toiling on 2g improvements... I want units, SS parts, and wonders and I want them fasterthtanthis!! ;)

    Anyway, I didn't restore the settings to "normal".

    So city management actually takes less than half my turn, and with 2,000+ citizens, you can bet that maybe less than 5 are "overlooked" on any given turn (e.g., they are all optimally placed, esp. in overlaps and production)... most of a turn for me is spent planning moves, examining enemies, counting movement points of invasion force units, and pre-postioning Freight.

    by Flatlander Fox:
    it sounds like things are under control now :). We're probably pretty much set. BTW, don't worry about the kind of micromanagement that I sometimes talk about... everyone just play your preferred style ;).....

    Good luck!

    PS, I'll make some screenies later of Kev's game for DoY & others....
  16. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

    Mar 31, 2001
    The N hemisphere near fire and ice
    I'm back from my vacation and it's obvious that as I suspected the game will be finished before it's my turn again - amazing progress has been made. This was remarkably easy (despite D+1) once things got going and the difference from regular deity hardly noticeable once the cities became big (one extra unhappy citizen makes a much bigger difference in a small city than a big one).

    I'm definitely very interested in a new succession game once we finish this one, especially if it's made more difficult than this one. Several ideas that could be combined occur to me (the same/similar ideas have been mentioned here in the past several days):

    (1) D+2 or D+3 instead of D+1.

    (2) 'Barbarian Wrath' (IMO probably not a good idea).

    (2) Intentionally restricting our play, for instance not building any wonders, only capturing them. The only problem I see with this is that the AI is too stupid to place 'single city wonders' in the correct place (e.g. Cope/Ike/Colossus in cities with lots of trade arrows). Actually we did a bit of this in the current game (fundamentalism/bribing).

    (3) Using randomly generated maps that are then modified to make the game more difficult or interesting, such as starting on a small island, on the pole or making it extremely difficult to meet the AI early on, possibly delaying 'first contact' until several milleniums into the game. The map shape is also of significance with 200x50 with 200 in N-S instead of E-W being more difficult, round vs. flat world etc. I once created a map where I didn't meet the AI until I had 40-50 techs. It's no problem to make these maps, even if the person making them participates in the game.

    There are many more possibilities in addition to this.

    BTW I 'discovered' (this was undoubtly known before) that it seems impossible to create 'gigamaps' in Civ Classic, they only seem possible in MGE. Conversely, I was only able to get D+1, D+2 etc. to work in Classic. Somebody correct me if this is wrong.
  17. Flatlander Fox

    Flatlander Fox Armed Cultural Consultant

    Mar 5, 2001
    Unemployment Line
    Whoever is next could take my turn... I don't know if I can get to it by Monday, and I will be off the map until next Friday...

    Anyone ever though of a Scenario for the next succession game??

    I have a few ideas on which ones we could use...:)
  18. Andu Indorin

    Andu Indorin Retired Druid

    Jan 15, 2001
    Colorado Spgs, CO
    As there aren't that many cities left, I'll give you a chance to finish up the game. If we don't hear from you by Monday, then I'll go ahead and take a shot at finishing off our remaining enemies.

    What type of scenarios did you have in mind? Does that "Conquistador" scenario work for Classic?

    I am a little concerned about that pollution indicator; how long until the next Noachian Flood?

    KEV: You're a veritable poet; I've never been able to get past the first couple of couplets.
  19. Flatlander Fox

    Flatlander Fox Armed Cultural Consultant

    Mar 5, 2001
    Unemployment Line
    :(:( I forgot that it's a MGE scenario... IF my Diplomacy game tommorrow doesn't go, then I should be able to get it in.
  20. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

    Jun 17, 2001
    This is my first D+ game. What I usually do to get more competitive AI is give them certain advantages, particularly in terms of terrain and location. I also sometimes simply boost their starting units. But this is all just my own SP. I've tried a lot of different things to see if the AI can cope (e.g., properly play with certain changes), and some things have kindof surprising long term effects.

    BTW, has anyone tried a D+3 game on their own?

    You are correct, esp. with point #2. I have not tried gigamaps in 2.42.

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