Deity Questions

[TheLazyHase]

Care to explain how you steal without having writing? I would like to improve my strategies...

I had writing. I suppose it will not help your strategies a lot.

 

[Dirk1302]

instead i will say this - 99.9 percent of "diety" wins posted are by those that regenerate the map and reload about 50 billion times. Computer guys can do anything so any "failsafe" against such in a HOF post is dubious at best - in short- to win at diety as do others- cheat

How would you know? Seems like an unfounded statement to me.

Obsolete's right imo, forum is free but it seems a bit silly to go about commenting from prince experiences when the actual level being discussed is deity.

I'm intrigued by USun's comments (excellent advice btw) regarding moving the settler. It was a favorite tactic of Snaaty ,who actually plays deity, in the past but i think he dropped this tactic in more recent games on BTS. In hindsight this is a bit strange since more than on warlords/vanilla blocking the ais is important on BTS.

 

[troytheface]

"No!! This is a bigger disaster than Isaac Newton accidentally burning his manuscripts"

lol

look- alot of diety wins are " i am playing mansa on a small map "

"I am Jao on a Archewhatevera map "- certain victory conditions ect

not impressed- and don't care if your playing at diety plus 1 - (the Attacko level at random all by the way)

 

[bestsss]

Care to explain how you steal without having writing? I would like to improve my strategies...

You merely need anyone to gift you a spy and then you can steal. Simple as that.

 

[TheLazyHase]

Obsolete's right imo, forum is free but it seems a bit silly to go about commenting from prince experiences when the actual level being discussed is deity.

But, it's also a bit silly to discuss event-on or barbarian games* if you play without them. It's also a bit silly to talk about an XXX civ if you never play it. And so on.

The actual level thingie tend not to impress me. I have far more respect for people like PieceOfMind or TheMeInTheTeam that actually back theirs affirmation with explanation, than with obsolete. Not that Obsolete play badly, I don't know, but simply put saying "you're ashaming yourself" or "you play on too low a level" does not impress me.

In in any case, I love how a lot of persons attack specifics point, and nobody say anything against the core of the post, that was " some civ, like sumerian, can begin toying with espionnage a lot sooner than other". Maybe because that's true. Maybe because I had express it so badly that nobody had understand what I meant.

*To be clear : this does not implie that I believe Obsolete, or anybody, play specifically without barbarian, since I just don't know who play with or without barbarian. I do believe Obsolete play most of the time without event

 

[Soirana]

I had writing. I suppose it will not help your strategies a lot.

So you recommend stealing archery on Deity after obtaining writing [and presumably Alphabet]. I am very interested what you gain under such twist...

 

[troytheface]

lol

"How to Win at Diety and Impress the Stupid and the Young"

- play a spiritual leader- choose the enemy civs- turn off all victory conditions except diplo
tweak the map, regenerate if it sux- reload if you lose battles-ect- no events- no anything that you can't cope with- show screen shots as proof of your integrity -post your win.

 

[Dirk1302]

@Troy, still don't know what you're talking about. I've played a lot of challenges here on the forum on maps ranging from pretty good to pretty bad, no Joao's on archips or dual mansa maps ,almost all of them normal speed,standard map size, fractal or pangae. Duckweed reloaded the map sometimes to make the game harder instead of easier.

@OP, best advice i can give you is read Snaaty's article "BTS on higher levels" and look for those challenges posted by USun,Duckweed,ABigCivFan,DMOC,Gliese,obsolete (if you like to build wonders like no tomorrow), myself and a few others which i have temporarily forgotten. Rusten posted some very good walkthoughs as well ~2 years ago.

 

[TheLazyHase]

So you recommend stealing archery on Deity after obtaining writing [and presumably Alphabet]. I am very interested what you gain under such twist...

I never, ever said so. I never gave advise on the sumerian way to do research, I simply have stated what you can do. Reading problem perhaps ?

I say "Sumerian can begin to steal tech a lot sooner". I specifically talked about archery because there is case where it's low priority AND it's cheap to steal. Just like fishing : sometime you want it immediatly, sometime it's low priority. I may have not explained my point very well, but twisting what I said does not prove anything.

 

[troytheface]

lol- so i type in on the google thing up top "diety win in Civ4"
this is the first thing that comes up. lol


My civ: Roman
Level: Deity (lower level means easier, of course)
Map type: Random Standard “Pangaea” World (smaller map size means easier, of course)
Climate: Temperate
Optional check boxes: No barbarian, No city razing, and No cheating. Default settings for the rest. (After you have won your first Deity game, you can move up a level by turning on barbarian setting)
Epic or Marathon game speed
Minimum of 4 AI players. My favorite adversaries are Spain, Russia, Egypt, England, and America.
Game version: Patch 1.52 or later

 

[Sidney Magal]

troy, the problem is that you're looking for the diet wins. Try searching for deity next time.

 

[Soirana]

I never, ever said so. I never gave advise on the sumerian way to do research, I simply have stated what you can do.

Who ever said we discuss sumeria? Topic is stated clearly 'Deity questions' so any post here should be towards deity play unless poster specifies otherwise.

I say "Sumerian can begin to steal tech a lot sooner".
...
I talk from what I have stolen in this case.
...
Note that stealing fishing cost as little as 200-300 point. Your PALACE alone can give thoses points

Do you want to say that sumerian palace gives more espionage?

Note that I wasn't saying "forget about archery until you have writing".
...

Originally Posted by Soirana
Care to explain how you steal without having writing? I would like to improve my strategies...

I had writing.
...
Reading problem perhaps ?

Overall i think you have thinking problems actually. You might be surprised but making posts on any forum usually does not solve these. I suggest sorting out that you are trying to say first.

 

[troytheface]

"best advice i can give you is read Snaaty's article "BTS on higher levels" and look for those challenges posted by USun,Duckweed,ABigCivFan,DMOC,Gliese,obsolete (if you like to build wonders like no tomorrow), myself and a few others which i have temporarily forgotten. Rusten posted some very good walkthoughs as well "

lol

in essence- " i win at diety but my advice is to repeat what troytheglorious said
(settler march) congratulate Snaaty for the idea like it was his - and original
and then instead of actually giving any advice say- "read these guides- and mine!)

lol

 

[Unconquered Sun]

@Dirk - You see less "move the settler" because the winning odds for deity have gone up so much there's no need to take risks.

@all - the best espionage opening is Great Wall for Great Spy - hence the best traits are Phi/Exp and Ind/Exp; the best UU is Fast Worker.

 

[babybluepants]

"Gambling" implies you risk to lose something you already have: when your deity win chances are low to nonexistant, you don't risk much.

Well put... Assuming for a moment that they're very low, as opposed to nonexistent... I guess I would still have a very low chance of winning to lose.

I was sincerely asking for slightly more detailed advice on it. From reading this thread, though, I'm thinking I'm doing some things wrong in the early game... Mostly not being quite aggressive enough in expansion. I'll just try doing things differently for a bit.

 

[Fluxx]

Something I have been wondering for a while is Deity harder on epic speed compared to normal speed?

The reasoning behind it, is because of the extra settler + worker AI's get on deity, the extra movement seems to favour the AI's, and therefor the early bonuses are bigger, therefor the AI grows faster in the beginstages, etc.

For example there was this one deity exhibition game where I shadowed. I was the only one running epic speed. In my game Hammu had a 375 AD lib date, compared to a 900 AD lib date of Dirk and other people.

 

[Silu]

Slower speed -> easier game. Deity doesn't affect that. Lib dates can vary a lot since it's very random what GPs AIs get and what techs they choose.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

"Gambling" implies you risk to lose something you already have: when your deity win chances are low to nonexistant, you don't risk much.

The hard part is determining whether moving will actually block off more land, or actually lose land because you are delaying empire-wide start for x turns. If you're coastal or walled near the tundra, it's more obvious, but even now I have trouble making a call whether I'd eventually get boxed in to <6 cities on turn 0 or 1.

@Dirk - You see less "move the settler" because the winning odds for deity have gone up so much there's no need to take risks.

So would you advocate moving in BTS deity or not? What basis would you use for deciding, other than coastal/obvious tundra/edge? Or do you only move in those circumstances in BTS (which admittedly would make sense but I want to make sure here).

I guess map script would play a role too. Coastal pangaea carries a lot more meaning than coastal archipelago...but you can only see so much with the starting units.

troy, the problem is that you're looking for the diet wins. Try searching for deity next time.

A "diet" win might be more impressive...at least compared to BTS Deity where even my poor micro has scratched up some wins. Not good % tho.

Slower speed -> easier game. Deity doesn't affect that. Lib dates can vary a lot since it's very random what GPs AIs get and what techs they choose.

Slower speeds can make otherwise viable starts unwinnable potentially...especially those where the AI can box you in insta-fast or you're almost guaranteed to roll an early DoW from your neighbor because there are so many extra turns for that war check.

Generally, slower speeds make things easier, but on deity I'd argue it makes the difficulty of games more volatile. A good UU and resource can mean winning land very early (typical in HoF deity space for example). A bad start (no copper/horse) and an aggressive neighbor can put you very, very far back or kill you outright effectively.

 

[Silu]

Slower speeds can make otherwise viable starts unwinnable potentially...especially those where the AI can box you in insta-fast or you're almost guaranteed to roll an early DoW from your neighbor because there are so many extra turns for that war check.

Generally, slower speeds make things easier, but on deity I'd argue it makes the difficulty of games more volatile. A good UU and resource can mean winning land very early (typical in HoF deity space for example). A bad start (no copper/horse) and an aggressive neighbor can put you very, very far back or kill you outright effectively.

Yeah I'd say more variance (= possibly harder early game), easier overall. Much like Agg AI (haven't tried that on Deity though). Blocking is a double edged sword though since popping border takes ages on slow speeds. Faster chopping also means you get settlers out faster. Barbs and war rolls are the biggest issues that make it harder, but slowcheese still prevails.

 

[bestsss]

Slower speed also affected extorting technologies, you can wipe like 4-5 cities, leave a single archer and the and the AI still offers mysticism and finishing.
Since rush (esp. early) basically kills your economy for a very long time, not getting any useful technologies sucks.