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[BNW] Deity Random map Continents

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by dwcole78, Jan 29, 2019.

  1. Blatc

    Blatc Chieftain

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    If a decent faith pantheon and religion isn't an option, shrines should be a lower priority after scouts, monument (if needed), Granary, Worker (if needed), Settlers, etc.

    Techs that reveal items on map (Animal Husbandry-Horses and Bronze Working-Iron) help identify good locations to found cities and help generate income through trade deals. I would prioritize BW over The Wheel in tech order: roads won't be needed for a while and you are not looking to rush a unit The Wheel unlocks (as Egypt and The Huns might do).

    Your empire will grow quicker if you get more cities up before building things like a Library or caravan in the capital; typically, grow to ~3 pop while improving relevant production tiles (horses, sheep, hills as terrain, worker availability, and tile expansion allows), then switch to building multiple Settlers, then move on to further infrastructure (Library, caravan, etc.). If you lack a 2nd 2+ food tile, it is okay to build a Settler at 2-pop rather than wait a long, long time before expanding. You can also switch back and forth between different builds, say if you have a worker improving sheep for a 2nd 2-food tile or a tile expansion coming up with another 2+ food tile (or gold to buy it); you could start building a Settler at 2-pop, switch production (Granary?) when you have a 2nd 2-food tile available to grow to 3 pop, and then switch back to Settler(s). If you are really close to finishing the Granary, do so before switching production back to Settlers as certain amounts of food do contribute to Settler production (play around with the tiles to observe and learn about this).

    ~15 turns out from reaching Philosophy, I would want to have all core expo cities out, with at least 1 worker each, and all currently building Libraries or finishing up Granary and about to start Library. Cutting down a nearby forest to speed up Granary production can *sometimes* be a better use of workers then tile improvements, as a Granary with at least 1 relevant resource gives 3+ value (food) upon completion.
     
  2. dwcole78

    dwcole78 Chieftain

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    So spoilers for this game in this thread do not read if you want to play my save.


    I am on an island by myself - so no competing for space. Hence I can build the Granary and Library first. Doing this so I can build the college hopefully for cheap start catching up in tech early (aka build national college when only have two cities) then spring quickly to universities. Monuments get from culture doing tradition. Interesting the focus on production early I have always focused on pop growth in cites early improved food tiles first. Is this not what is normally done? Any particular advice on this map city placement and such pantheon choice?

    Thanks!
     
  3. beetle

    beetle Chieftain

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    Wow, that turns out to be an ugly start! I hate when I spawn three/four hexes from the coast. Inland starts are okay, but I don’t like feeling like I was tricked!

    Are you sure the setting is Continents and not Small Continents. It is pretty unusual to be as isolated as you are.

    Why are you at war with two CS?
     
  4. Grendeldef

    Grendeldef Trancerelic

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    Sadly, yes - reroll would be my advice as this is about to become very different even from a normal Continents game.

    I don't know whether Pangaea is any sort of standard but it's just what most people seem to prefer whether it's a personal preference or hunting for fast VC.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  5. dwcole78

    dwcole78 Chieftain

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    weird I love this start...expect I will keep playing it see what happens. Is continents not small continents. Will continue to post as develops. I can get a lot of good cites on this island with no competition.
     
  6. Grendeldef

    Grendeldef Trancerelic

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    Love for a map is very different from being able to win on it hence my soon to become standard answer.

    Also, I look at the world through Liberty tinted glasses so the severe lack of luxes is a big no-no as you'll need to get the happiness somewhere else. The isolated start itself distorts the start quite a bit so this will be an unusual game in any case. A winnable - for sure, a winnable entry to Deity I doubt but good luck anyway. I'm the last person to blame someone for playing sub-optimally as I've mostly just been screwing up and/or handicapping myself on purpose to make the game more interesting.
     
  7. mbbcam

    mbbcam Chieftain

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    The competition is somewhere else on the map, happily building enormous empires that you will know nothing about - and can do nothing about - until you either find them (when you may discover that Washington has 24 cities and a lead of nine Techs), or until one of them, say England, turns up on your doorstep out of the blue with 15 Frigates and 3 Privateers. Good luck surviving that!
     
  8. Nizef

    Nizef Chieftain

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    Dwcole!
    Even with my Tradition tinted glasses I am worried about the lack of luxuries and the isolated start. It is exactly with Deity Civ 5 as with the song about the lemon tree: "isolation is not good for me" because each AI you meet will lower your tech cost. I think that Gren and the rest of us are just worried that the start will lead to failure and we would like to help you. But of course there is one thing that I can´t argue with: if you like this start, you should obviously play it. After all, the purpose of the game is to have fun.

    If you want to turtle and if you are open for suggestions, I could recommend GotM160. It is an archipelago map with Babylon and you will be able to settle 3 decent cities on your island/continent and all you need to do is to build one trireme and you will find the AIs. Build some cargo ships and use them for internal trade routes and your cities will grow fast. Build a few galleasses and you will be able to defend yourself and it is a map where you are almost guaranteed to get a good religion. That setup is as friendly as it gets on Deity.
     
  9. raider980

    raider980 Chieftain

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    I played up until I saw the whole island. I do like isolated starts sometimes, especially with Korea. In fact, the only proper Deity game I've ever won was Korea on an isolated island.

    However, I do not like this island, just my opinion though. There aren't any really good city spots, just some ok ones. The CS are in annoying locations. And the lack of luxuries worries me. I guess you will be able to get the CS luxes because there's no competition. I may continue with it after the Mongol game.
     
  10. GenuineRisk

    GenuineRisk Chieftain

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    I think that seems to be exactly what the problem is.
     
  11. Nizef

    Nizef Chieftain

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    Or maybe it is all a joke?
     
  12. dr_s

    dr_s Chieftain

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    I play Immortal mostly but will throw in my two cents.

    I don't like Busan as the second city. Low production and you don't have masonry so you can't immediately improve the stone or clear the marsh. Also, if you're not going for a religion, why are you building a shrine there? I would have probably put my second city on the north coast, 1 NE of the iron (assuming it was already revealed), or on the SW coast, on the hill by the buffalo.

    Seoul is pop 5, about to be pop 6, but you have 7 improved tiles and two workers. One of those workers should be at Busan, improving the sheep and cotton.

    You also might think about being more aggressive about buying tiles with resources, rather than improving riverside plains tiles.

    Based on the screenshot, it's possible you're not truly isolated; there's a bit of land in the NE corner. You might want to prioritize fishing so you can find out.
     
  13. Blatc

    Blatc Chieftain

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    I realize that you do not appear to be competing for space; my advice remains unchanged. Consider as an extreme, hypothetical example: would you rather have 4 cities up on turn 10 or turn 50? Your early game science is derived primarily from population, and you get faster pop growth early on in a given city (pop 1-5).

    You won't be able to catch up in tech unless you:
    *have enough happiness to grow a decent number of cities, which may be an issue on this map
    *meet the other civs, the sooner the better, which may be an issue on this map
    *have good terrain for your cities, which may be an issue on this map and/or with the location(s) you have chosen

    Personally, I would not waste my time with this map and suggest moving to a Pangaea, all standard map with hand-picked (peaceful) opponents.
     
  14. dwcole78

    dwcole78 Chieftain

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    heh I am open to suggestions of course but will play this one out. Pangea hand picked opponents is a no go for me. Why do you say finding each new civ will lower tech costs that isn't one I know about. Reason I love island starts is the AI will be over on other continents competing with and beating each other up and I can grow without anyone fighting me - I can build no military except ships and can wait on those!

    I agree the lack of luxes especially on this level is bad. I am interested one of you always plays liberty though - I thought on higher levels tradition since you could every only have six cities effectively was the way to go.
     
  15. mbbcam

    mbbcam Chieftain

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    @dwcole78 I don't think you understand the quality of the advice you are getting. Blatc has a T188 Science victory to his name, if I'm not mistaken. I'm a nobody, but he must be among the best players ever to have played this game. So is Acken, in my view.

    I think you have a lot to un-learn. Playing at lower levels can give you mistaken ideas about what Deity is going to be like.

    My own personal prediction is that if you play this through, you will lose to an AI achieving a Science victory, or perhaps one of them achieving a Cultural victory, depending on who else is in the game. But I wouldn't be surprised if you got killed by a massive invasion before then. The Deity AI gets massive bonuses. You can find a list of them here:

    https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Difficulty_level_(Civ5)
     
  16. Blatc

    Blatc Chieftain

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    Isn't the point of this thread to learn about the game through the input of more experienced players? To do so, you need to accept new information being shared with you.

    I suggest you search and read through the many helpful threads already on this forum, including Fastest Science Victory:
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/fastest-science-victory.563022/

    Successful Deity play involves finding ways to benefit from the AIs bonuses, as mentioned by mbbcam, which requires meeting the AI - sooner rather than later - and includes:
    *stealing workers
    *benefiting from lower tech costs, having met civs that already have that tech
    *benefiting from trade routes (gold and science); adjusting your tech progress to maximize trade route science is one of many useful forms of micromanaging
    *trading to receive luxuries to increase your total happiness, resolve a city state quest, or enter a We Love the King Day
    *trading excess resources for gold is VERY important on Deity

    If you love this start, that's cool - have fun. Afterwards, I encourage you to participate in one of the most recent Community Deity Games; interact with the other active players and learn from their input.
     
    beetle and aafritz17 like this.
  17. Nizef

    Nizef Chieftain

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    The science needed for each tech gets lower for each player that has researched it. But you only get this reduced science requirement, if you have met the player who has researched it. Start a Deity game and see for yourself: on t0 all first tier techs you can research have a science cost of 40, meet your closest neighbour and this cost will be reduced to 39 and meet a second one and it will go down to 38 and so on (and it is a certain percentage of the tech cost, which means it scales with eras). This is particularly true in the early game because all AIs start way ahead of you, In fact, AIs start with all four first tier techs and in addition also the wheel.

    If you want to study this mechanic further you can for example look at: https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Difficulty_level_(Civ5)

    I would also strongly recommend that you look at some gameplays on Youtube. They are quite instructive and I know I learnt a lot by watching superb players like Acken (rezoacken) or Filthyrobot, just to name two.
     
  18. aafritz17

    aafritz17 Chieftain Hall of Fame Staff Supporter

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    The Fastest Science Victory thread @Blatc references is 36 pages of discussion (or Q&A) between (or with) very high level players. And it's all less than 3 years old (for 2 more days!), so it is VERY relevant.
     
  19. beetle

    beetle Chieftain

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    @dwcole78, you did not answer my earlier question:
    The other problem with being on a small continent with Korea is that you cannot build Caravels, so no proper Ocean exploration until Navigation.

    I kind of like isolated starts myself, but the starting continent seems below average to me. Still, I might play the map since I also like Korea.
     
  20. dr_s

    dr_s Chieftain

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    Like I said, I play Immortal, but I thought I would play this though turn 64 to compare. I've attached a screen shot.

    I like settling on hills, so I moved the warrior north and then settled on the hill to the NE on turn 2. I usually only build one scout, so my build order was scout, monument, worker, granary, settler, settler, library. I stole one worker from Colombo.

    My tech order was AH, mining (ruins), pottery, trapping, writing, calendar, BW, philosophy. I'm four turns from Phil on turn 64.

    Spoiler :

    Screen Shot 2019-02-13 at 8.41.59 PM.png
     

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