that made me giggle. you want to see the 10% that wont even happen?
edit 1: ok, never mind. I misread it, hehe. read "10% less victory". too early, need some coffee.
Deity Toku
- Thread starter Dirk1302
- Start date
that made me giggle. you want to see the 10% that wont even happen?
edit 1: ok, never mind. I misread it, hehe. read "10% less victory". too early, need some coffee.
nice idea......
what about an aw game? in my opinion thats best to learn how to live with horsehockey (getting declared) starts
. before playing a lot of aw games (mainly teamgames together with obsolete against deity teams) ironman mode (no reloading and such... ...not possible in a teamgame, so you cant even be tempted
), i also thought early declarations usually end in you getting killed... ...but then, well then, my opinion changed slowly (it was a brutal and painfull learning curve, i have to say
)maybe a pangea map, normal size, natural shoreline (lots of peninsulas and you usually start in one of them, so you can defend in 2-3 strat. placed cities), 1 less ai and no techtrading for the ais? that should be doable with a decent leader and a good start. maybe even unrestricted leaders? wangkon of mali
... ...my alltime favorite for aw games
What's wrong with Toku? I like protective leaders. Monty is a nice neighbor, he tends to found a religion and become friend after DOW. Stone and Marble, I never care about them. Oracle is essential a no resource wonder. Is coastal start satisfy your forests requirement? BTW, I do care about Oil and Gold.
I do reload in every winning game I have played!
Because I am not able to finish any game in one session, so I save and reload in ~2 hours. Is that a problem? At least I have played many Game of Month this way.I saw you complained very often about luck. I have some suggestions for you.
Dealing with deity DOW in any stage is the basic kill to play deity games.
Don't easily question about things that you have never tried. I used pure mount units for war when most of the players were still favoring cannon and artillery. People also felt strange when I mentioned the cavalry and bomber combo. Have you played AW and deity team game in naturally maps? Have you played map full of warmongers? See Dirk's signature? Try the 2nd one if you have interest, that's also a Toku game.
shyuhe
Deity
Mmmm, Duckweed is reminding me of that crazy 1 vs. 2 vs. 2 vs. 2 deity game we played in the SG forum. Boy was that one crazy.
AbsoluteZero
Deity
What's wrong with Toku? I like protective leaders. Monty is a nice neighbor, he tends to found a religion and become friend after DOW. Stone and Marble, I never care about them. Oracle is essential a no resource wonder. Is coastal start satisfy your forests requirement? BTW, I do care about Oil and Gold.
I do reload in every winning game I have played!
I saw you complained very often about luck. I have some suggestions for you.
Dealing with deity DOW in any stage is the basic kill to play deity games.
Don't easily question about things that you have never tried. I used pure mount units for war when most of the players were still favoring cannon and artillery. People also felt strange when I mentioned the cavalry and bomber combo. Have you played AW and deity team game in naturally maps? Have you played map full of warmongers? See Dirk's signature? Try the 2nd one if you have interest, that's also a Toku game.
Most of this post strikes me as hubris, or irrelevant stuff like "have you done this? I have
"No matter how good you play some games will turn out as a loss.
I guess you think you could play this map blind and come out a winner 100% of the time. Well my hats off to you then.
Dirk1302
Deity
^I'd say take him up on that OCC challenge Toku no marble/stone. 1 Gold in BFC and oil. I have no experience with OCC games myself but that must be pretty tough.
He'll probably play it roughly like this: Fend off early attacks, set Ais on each other while building up, researching to tanks/bombers. Then Conquer the whole map as the ais are very silly in the modern age. Might just work but a lot can go wrong along the way.
He'll probably play it roughly like this: Fend off early attacks, set Ais on each other while building up, researching to tanks/bombers. Then Conquer the whole map as the ais are very silly in the modern age. Might just work but a lot can go wrong along the way.
What's wrong with Toku? I like protective leaders. Monty is a nice neighbor, he tends to found a religion and become friend after DOW. Stone and Marble, I never care about them. Oracle is essential a no resource wonder. Is coastal start satisfy your forests requirement? BTW, I do care about Oil and Gold.
I do reload in every winning game I have played!
I saw you complained very often about luck. I have some suggestions for you.
Dealing with deity DOW in any stage is the basic kill to play deity games.
Don't easily question about things that you have never tried. I used pure mount units for war when most of the players were still favoring cannon and artillery. People also felt strange when I mentioned the cavalry and bomber combo. Have you played AW and deity team game in naturally maps? Have you played map full of warmongers? See Dirk's signature? Try the 2nd one if you have interest, that's also a Toku game.
Do you wear a teacher-cap in your free time? Geez..this is one guy i'll try to avoid
@ mylene:
it would have been possible to wrap it into a more diplomatic way, but basically duckweed is right. most players (including those that think of themselves beeing "top" players) an still learn quite a bit from duckweed.
the learning curve is more or less like this, if you start to play strictly without reloading:
1. stop neglecting early defence on deity (everything else is luck dependent)
2. win most deity games (you cant win them all, even if you can stop an early dow... ...2 early dows will still get you killed)
3. try deity aw
4. loose them
5. loose some more of them
6. win 1 after something like 10000000 tries (best is to pick another deity player as partner an play them as teamgames. much more fun and helps in not giving up along the way)
7. start winning more deity aw games (im at a stage right now, with a decent start, where i think im able to win 1 out of 3 aw games without map knowledge and reloading)
...
i will post a deity aw game somewhen later with the following settings:
1. unrestricted leaders, we start with wangkong of mali
2. pangea, natural shoreline (most important)
3. no techtrading for the ais
4. 1 less ai
these are "easier" (although easy might not be totally the right attribute here) settings for deity aw.
...
hopefully some of the players involved here will give it a try, so we can see how they do. its no rule NOT to save/reload or retry (helps learning to deal with aw, especially if you are new to it), but if you do so, please say so.
it would have been possible to wrap it into a more diplomatic way, but basically duckweed is right. most players (including those that think of themselves beeing "top" players) an still learn quite a bit from duckweed.
the learning curve is more or less like this, if you start to play strictly without reloading:
1. stop neglecting early defence on deity (everything else is luck dependent)
2. win most deity games (you cant win them all, even if you can stop an early dow... ...2 early dows will still get you killed
)3. try deity aw
4. loose them
5. loose some more of them
6. win 1 after something like 10000000 tries (best is to pick another deity player as partner an play them as teamgames. much more fun and helps in not giving up along the way)
7. start winning more deity aw games (im at a stage right now, with a decent start, where i think im able to win 1 out of 3 aw games without map knowledge and reloading)
...
i will post a deity aw game somewhen later with the following settings:
1. unrestricted leaders, we start with wangkong of mali
2. pangea, natural shoreline (most important)
3. no techtrading for the ais
4. 1 less ai
these are "easier" (although easy might not be totally the right attribute here) settings for deity aw.
...
hopefully some of the players involved here will give it a try, so we can see how they do. its no rule NOT to save/reload or retry (helps learning to deal with aw, especially if you are new to it), but if you do so, please say so.
AbsoluteZero
Deity
Where are these deity AW games?
I've seen the Toku one and wasn't really impressed given the edited map. Wheres the ones with non-edited maps on pangea?
I've seen the Toku one and wasn't really impressed given the edited map. Wheres the ones with non-edited maps on pangea?
Dirk1302
Deity
^Don't think there are much. AW is rather hard on immortal already, i think most of the deity ones will be lost without rigged settings. I'm pretty impressed actually by Snaaty's 1 out of 3 win rate.
@Snaaty, i look forward to that map, i have some experience with AW but not as much as you i think.
@Duckweed, some bold claims there. I find it a bit hard to believe you can win these deity OCC maps consistently so i'd like to see you winning one. I'll put up a random generated OCC map for you. Anymore wishes than:
- Gold in BFC
- Oil in neighborhood
I can easily imagine that you don't want to be coastal either in a situation like this (although lots of trade commerce if you are of course).
@Snaaty, i look forward to that map, i have some experience with AW but not as much as you i think.
@Duckweed, some bold claims there. I find it a bit hard to believe you can win these deity OCC maps consistently so i'd like to see you winning one. I'll put up a random generated OCC map for you. Anymore wishes than:
- Gold in BFC
- Oil in neighborhood
I can easily imagine that you don't want to be coastal either in a situation like this (although lots of trade commerce if you are of course).
I don't want to learn why protective should be good, cos it isn't cept for maybe X-Bow rushes and these occ i try to stay faaar away from.
I can defend myself just fine with regular archers if needed
Dirk1302
Deity
I'm not the one trying Deity OCC here very soon as well but someone else is . However protective is a good trait,in that Toku game which you closed because of the capital site i was able to get CGIII MG's (upgraded from grens) which helped a lot against all that artillery Monty brought in that game. Also on this map it's a good trait if you get declared on early, prefer it to financial actually in this situation as cottages get pillaged anyway.
. However protective is a good trait,in that Toku game which you closed because of the capital site i was able to get CGIII MG's (upgraded from grens) which helped a lot against all that artillery Monty brought in that game. Also on this map it's a good trait if you get declared on early, prefer it to financial actually in this situation as cottages get pillaged anyway.@Dirk
I did not say that deity OCC is winnable constantly. Even a normal deity game is not 100% winnable. In a game where no AI could win culture or launch before 1850AD, the chance is much better. You are right, the war will be launched in modern era, with Carriers + Fighters, Transports + Marines, and some battleships and destroyers for escort and bombardment. So the key point is when you can have the stack ready and how many turns are left for conquering. I played that game in epic speed.
@Mylene
I have no interest in teaching anyone. You can play any game in any way you like. I won't bother to say anything when no one questions in front of my nose, in a nice way like what you did.
I did not say that deity OCC is winnable constantly. Even a normal deity game is not 100% winnable. In a game where no AI could win culture or launch before 1850AD, the chance is much better. You are right, the war will be launched in modern era, with Carriers + Fighters, Transports + Marines, and some battleships and destroyers for escort and bombardment. So the key point is when you can have the stack ready and how many turns are left for conquering. I played that game in epic speed.
@Mylene
I have no interest in teaching anyone. You can play any game in any way you like. I won't bother to say anything when no one questions in front of my nose, in a nice way like what you did.
Dirk1302
Deity
I realize that you didn't say that. But still i'd like to see how close you can come, more so since you lecture AZ,who is a strong and very original player as can be seen from his video's, about luck and basic skills. Gives you something to proof i feel. I'll try it myself as well but i don't think i can win it also because the strongest point about my own game is timely expansion. I can understand Mylene's reaction, i don't think you meant it that way but that post of yours to AZ was a bit harsh imo.
in this forum, there are is actually only ONE
deity aw game that i know of without heavily rigged settings (i checked the map before posting it, so the humans didnt start in the middle of the map and that some islands were available + and took care of enough early happy... ...the inslands got never settled btw, if i remember right, cause the ai simply was faster, but well...). and this wasnt even finished here, but in the german forum via an SG...king of the hill 2
just follow the link in the post towards the german forum. since obs joined the sg team there at some point, the language there got switched to english
king of the hill 1 is also an aw game, but it had a handmade start...
...
there is another deity aw SG in the german forum (www.civforum.de) that has been won, but that one is only in german...
...
edith adds:
i will put online the deity aw game shortly
edith 2 says:
the deity aw game is online now
@Dirk
Don't bother to make the map. I have tried many ways to challenge myself in old days, however, for now I am half retired from CIV 4 and have very little interest in playing games in S&T forum. Occasionally I will play some xOTMs to the end. SGOTM is the only place I have enthusiasm on.
BTW, playing OCC is very different from normal setting, but kind of boring to repeat mostly the same thing in every game.
Don't bother to make the map. I have tried many ways to challenge myself in old days, however, for now I am half retired from CIV 4 and have very little interest in playing games in S&T forum. Occasionally I will play some xOTMs to the end. SGOTM is the only place I have enthusiasm on.
BTW, playing OCC is very different from normal setting, but kind of boring to repeat mostly the same thing in every game.
@Snaaty looked at that German forum game, closed it after reading "We got Feudalism with the oracle due to a lucky hut...".
That is a main factor making this winnable IMO.
Why do you think "pangea, natural shoreline (most important)" is most important?
That is a main factor making this winnable IMO.
Why do you think "pangea, natural shoreline (most important)" is most important?
Dirk1302
Deity
I played this map out but with an early dow from Monty. At first everything went alright, Monty wasn't really dangerous. He lost 40 units, Jags/axes mainly. I lost 4 archers. I got 2 GG's in the process giving me the ability to build cr2 cats. Got construction around 450 BC, not one slice of luck here, i had to self research math. Here the trouble started however.....Compared to the game where I wasn't dowed:
I had one good city and several forests less
Got construction a bit later
Didn't have as many workers
Justin had lb's, also he wasn't at war with Shaka so he was just stronger overall and more focused on me once i declared.
I had to wait until 100 AD to evade an AP peace decision
In short it didn't really work out, every time i made some progress he had some new stacks popping up from out of nowhere forcing me to defend again. I tried a few times, i could take 2 cities tops but not his cap. He also gets engineering rather fast which really ends it all (castle in Constantinopel).
I'm not 100% convinced it's unplayable with an early dow against you, it slowed me down but i believe Justin not being dragged down by war against the Zulu's for 1000 years as in my first game was as important. Overall i can agree with AZ's assessment that this map is very difficult after an early dow. It's not only the dow itself imo but the total lack of room on this map which is extreme even for Deity Pangaea. 1-2 cities more and i would have been in business i think.
I had one good city and several forests less
Got construction a bit later
Didn't have as many workers
Justin had lb's, also he wasn't at war with Shaka so he was just stronger overall and more focused on me once i declared.
I had to wait until 100 AD to evade an AP peace decision
In short it didn't really work out, every time i made some progress he had some new stacks popping up from out of nowhere forcing me to defend again. I tried a few times, i could take 2 cities tops but not his cap. He also gets engineering rather fast which really ends it all (castle in Constantinopel).
I'm not 100% convinced it's unplayable with an early dow against you, it slowed me down but i believe Justin not being dragged down by war against the Zulu's for 1000 years as in my first game was as important. Overall i can agree with AZ's assessment that this map is very difficult after an early dow. It's not only the dow itself imo but the total lack of room on this map which is extreme even for Deity Pangaea. 1-2 cities more and i would have been in business i think.
