Democratic Succesion Game

[dutchfire]

Meh, it's really starting to be time for me to fix my installation, it doesn't want to open the save.

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

If you reinstall BTS, it will still keep your scenarios, mods, and saves, as long as you reinstall in the same directory.

As for Bombay. I agree. Work that hill! I like having the naval option, but in this case, going for the choke point makes allot of sense. Now...Ivory or horses first, hmmmm...

 

[Methos]

Turn 0, 2280 BC: Bombay switches to the grass forested hill which shaves four turns off the monument.
IT- Bombay Worker -> Settler

Turn 1, 22?? BC: The just finished worker moves 1SE to help chop the settler. The other worker continues working on connecting Bombay and Delhi.

Turn 4, 2120 BC: We meet Wang Kon. Asia is filling out. Since we're so close to seeing Qin's research I up his :spy: weight to 1. Once we can see his research (which should be fairly soon), we can even them back out. FYI, Qin is putting all his :spy: towards Wang.
IT- Research Writing -> Fishing
Qin asks for this and I accept. We can always back out if a settler heads our way:

Turn 7, 2000 BC: A wolf attacked our scouting warror. Guess we're having wolf tonight. A barb warrior shows up near Delhi as our borders pop. He then moves to the grass hill 1SW of Bombay to chop/mine. The worker finishes connecting Delhi and Bombay.
IT- Our passive espionage is showing that Qin is researching Iron Working. We also get this popup:

Turn 8, 1960 BC:

I stopped here as we have several possibilities to discuss:

Delhi build queue:

• Warrior: Currently the queue is set to a warrior, but that's not what I'm pushing. We may not need the escort for the current settler, though we do have at least one barbarian wondering around.
• Worker: We're about to build our third city and we only have two workers, so the more the better. Granted Delhi grows in three turns, so I'd be tempted to wait until after growth.
• Library: Not worth it IMO. Once the mine is complete next turn Delhi will earn a total of 4 /turn, meaning the library would gain us +1 :beaker:/turn. Not worth it, at least not yet.
• Barracks: High possibility, though something could be slotted in before it, depending on where we settle. If we wait on the settler then we're looking at two turns to complete the monument, tend turns to pop borders to grab the copper, and several more turns to complete the mine (we should have a road in place prior to this). Therefore a barracks could wait a bit before being slotted in the queue. If we're going to settle the horse city next (and soon) than building the barracks now would be best.
• Workboat: We won't be able to build this until next turn, but if we build the horse/clam city we need to get a workboat up there for the clams.
• Stonehenge: It'll take 15 turns, though this late in the game I'm surprised someone else hasn't completed it. With everything else that is going on, I don't think it would be wise to build this.

Bombay build queue:

• Library: Due to the gold and what may be our northern border, this will definitely be a build we want to build soon. We're going to need the push, unless we're able to expand further. I'm not sure this is the best build right now though.
• Barracks: With the copper coming on line soon (and possibly horses), we may want to build this next.

Espionage:

• We're above the passive 'See Research' mark with Qin (though only by two), so I dropped Qin's weight back to zero. Plus as was seen in the Thief economy SG, when you raise the weight that AI will raise theirs too, which he did. I'm hoping by dropping ours he'll drop his, which will still keep us above him and work on Wang. Make sure you watch Qin though, if he keeps his up for a few turns, we should raise our weight back up too. Currently Qin will complete IW in eighteen turns.

Dot Map:

• Here's what I'm currently thinking, though it's definitely up for discussion:
  
  
• Horse/Clam: It would be nice to have more than just axe's.
• Deer/Beaver: The +1 would really help. When Delhi grows in three turns she'll be at her limit. Plus the extra beaver will grant us a trade option. Technically the beaver are already in our borders, so we really don't need this city for the resources, but the would be nice.
• Wheat/Cow: Would be nice to have eventually, but not right now.
• Cow/Clam: I'm not sure about this one. I'd like to see what's up north, as settling there and grabbing both these might be best.
• For the current settler I'm thinking horse/clam or deer/beave. As I mentioned earlier, I'm not sure we need an escort.

Make sure we have the copper connected prior to the borders popping. Same with the horses if we go that route. No sense in wasting turns.

Roster:

• dutchfire - Up!
• Joe Harker - On Deck
• kwarriorpoet
• DaveShack
• Methos - Just Played

Here's the 1960 BC save.

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

Methos, you've done a great job managing the espionage with Qin! I admit that I tend to just set the slider to 10% and ignore it for probably too long.

I must also admit that I like what I am seeing in our team! Even the comments from people who aren't playing has already made me rethink some of my typical early game decisions.

What does your experience tell you, concerning an AI gunning for Iron Working so early? Even from Qin this is a little early, no? It could mean in my mind one of three things: 1) There is allot of Jungle near him. 2) Wang Kong is extremely close to him. 3) Qin has no copper nearby.

I know that sighting Ivory doesn't necessarily mean that there's jungle land nearby, just that you're at the right lattitude for it to show up. However, I'm leaning toward Qin starting with hills and sea food nearby and possibly even iron in a hill near the capital. Also, I'm willing to bet that he is not far into that fog, following the coast to the west from Bombay. Wang Kon is no doubt N, possibly, NNE of Qin, and there is probably allot of jungle on the west coast of our continent.

That being said, if we can race up to the Ivory soon, we may succeed in grabbing the sweet spot on our continent.

All that conjecture out of the way, I vote for the clam and horses being our third city, and needing some more exploration to the North by the cows and clams site and the ivory plains to make a decision on a fourth city.

Also, I would rather build a barracks in Bombay now, defend it, hook up horses and copper, and make ourselves appear to be too hard of a target for Qin. We will need catapults to take him down I think, and it would be great if we could get Wang Kon to fight with us.

I would also recommend (mostly in line what Methos has said)
Delhi: Warrior -> Workboat/Settler (2T on workboat, then switch to Settler when Delhi gets to size 5) -> Barracks (I agree to ignore Stonehenge.)
Bombay: Finish Monument -> Barracks/Worker (Start Worker when Bombay size 3) Library soon, but defense first.

 

[Methos]

Whoops, just realized I forgot to mention we have a settler in Delhi. I haven't moved him, as that was part of the reason I stopped for discussion.

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

Sweet! Send the settler to the horses clams Dutchfire!

 

[DaveShack]

Cool info on espionage, I haven't really paid that close attention to how it works. I was puzzled why our ratio with Qin was so big, given we would have started at the same time. The data implies he met Wang Kon right after us, right?

That ivory looks pretty nice, but thinking we should try to know where the others borders are first. Horse/clam sounds OK for now.

What to y'all like to do with research at this point? I almost always go for CoL to get culture somewhere and the ability to build a courthouse in the furthest away city when the 4th one is added or when maint costs kick in.

 

[Methos]

I was puzzled why our ratio with Qin was so big, given we would have started at the same time. The data implies he met Wang Kon right after us, right?

Qin has a large number of espionage points towards Wang, so I would guess Qin met Wang before us. I've forgotten the exact numbers, but I seem to recall that Qin has a lot more espionage points invested in Wang than we do in him, which would mean he's earning more /turn.

That ivory looks pretty nice, but thinking we should try to know where the others borders are first.

It does look nice and I would enjoy grabbing it, but I'm worried about maintenance costs. That far away may be a bit expensive. All the close cities in my dot map would be fairly cheap, so we should be able to grab a third and fourth city very soon without affecting our research much. The ivory city is a bit far away and with our lack of income right now, it'll probably be rather expensive. Note, I've been very busy the past couple of months so my civ time has been very limited, so I may be remembering some of this incorrectly. Feel free to correct me.

 

[dutchfire]

Roster:
dutchfire - skipped until BtS installation gets fixed
Joe Harker - up
kwarriorpoet
DaveShack
Methos - played

I think the cow/corn site is the best we've got at this moment. I think it should build a monument while growing to size two, and then it can contribute workers/settlers.

We do need another worker soon, I'd wait until Delhi has 5 pop to start it though. The new worker should improve the new city.

Let's try to get a warrior near the northern clamsite to fogbust there, I wouldn't want a barb axeman to pop up.

For the Great Lighthouse (if that's still what we're gunning for), we need sailing and masonry. It's best to get sailing first, since we'd need to build a lighthouse first anyway.



I sadly don't know how long it will take to fix my installation. I originally couldn't install it because there seems to be something wrong with updating DirectX. I get some error with DirectX.
So, being unable to install the game the normal way, I used an unconventional way. I installed it on another computer, and transferred the files to my computer with a usb-flash-drive. I didn't transfer the registry entries though so my computer doesn't recognize the game as installed. That also means I can't patch the game. So I'm currently looking at ways to fix this problem.

edit: I have now transferred some registry files, and windows recognizes the game, but the patch-installer still doesn't. It looks like this is going to take some time.

 

[Rashiminos]

Lurker Comment:

I would hook up Bombay's resources in this order: Copper -> Corn -> Cow -> Gold (and it's also alphabetical, what a coincidence)

If you would rather have more focus on production than growth, switch the cow and corn.

 

[Joe Harker]

I can play later tonight (1900GMT)and post it tomorrow if i don't get a chance today. Is that ok or should i wait a day?

 

[Methos]

I can play later tonight (1900GMT)and post it tomorrow if i don't get a chance today. Is that ok or should i wait a day?

Whatever is most convenient for you. Our host didn't specify, so I'm going with customary SG "rules" in that you have 24 hours to claim the save (basically posting a 'Got it') and 48 hours to play the save from the time of your posted 'Got it'.

Taking your above post as a 'Got it' would mean you have 48 hours from that post to play.

 

[Joe Harker]

Cheers Methos, tonght it is then!

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

Hurry up, man, I'm itching to find out where Qin really is!

 

[Joe Harker]

I haven't forgot, playing after lunch.

 

[Joe Harker]

Right i have played, but susprise susprise, my computer won't see my thumb stick, i will try later but i should be able to do it tomorrow at college should i not be able to get it done by tonight. Sorry

 

[Joe Harker]

Here we go!, sorry for the delays.

Thought it was best to settle with cows and wheat, decent production, built road and building improvement to get beaver to allow Delhi to grow.

A few Barbs are coming up now, so we need to get that copper linked up.

Summary

Turn 0: Move warrior 1N1W
Move settler to cow/wheat site
Worker stars mine SW of Bombay
Worker builds road to beavers, trying to get the 1

Turn 1: Settled 1N3W (wheat/cow site)
Move warrior 1N1E
Barb Warrior spotted 4N4W!!!???
Finished warrior in Delhi, move to new city, started library intending to stop to build worker once population has gone up
Started monument in new city
Finished fishing, started sailing (8 turns)

Turn 2: Move warrior 1N
Barb warrior 4N3W, Qin’s archer might take it out.
Finished momument in Bombay, started barracks

Turn 3: Moved warrior 1S1W, missed hut last turn, got 30 gold
Barb: 5N2W

Turn 4: Moved warrior 1N1W
Barb warrior killed by Qin archer!

Turn 5: Met Charles de Gaulle! Considers us as his worst enemy!
Warrior moved 1W
Started worker in Delhi, in 5 turns.

Turn 6: warrior 1S1W
Barb Archer seen 6N8W
Used forest chop from the mine built SW of Bombay to build warrior in defence.

Turn 7: Archer disappears

Warrior moved 1SW
Warrior in Bombay fortified.


Turn 8 open borders with charles, he is now neutral
Building improvement 1S3E
Warrior move SE, got hut, 18gold
Barb Archer appears 8NE

Turn 9: Stop, Barb archer moved 1N.

Next please!

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

I will play tonight. Just need to know whether we prefer to try and get the ivory or turtle up now, and go for the horse/clam site first?

1) Chariots and Axemen will be great at keeping the Barbs away. On the other hand, the Ivory will help with happiness and provide us with access to War Elephants later.

2) We need to know how far Qin is from us also.

3) Do you want to start TGL after the Settler is done? (Assuming Delhi starts a Settler after worker is done)

 

[Methos]

Great turnset Joe. One suggestions (and this is something I tend to forget with BTS), is we should probably keep a fair amount of gold in our treasury for the random events. I tend to lose a lot of the good events because I don't have enough cash.

 

[Methos]

Great turnset Joe. One suggestions (and this is something I tend to forget with BTS), is we should probably keep a fair amount of gold in our treasury for the random events. I tend to lose a lot of the good events because I don't have enough cash.

Doesn't look like we can support a positive treasury right now. I'd turn down the slider btw.

A few thoughts:

We're not doing good financially. I'm thinking our next city needs to be the deer/beaver city. Working just the deer, two beaver, and our city center nets us 12 /turn. When you consider our three current cities earn a total of six /turn in tiles, that's a lot! This city is still earning +2 /turn, so we could work the coastal tiles for more commerce.

The horse/clam city could also earn some $$, though not nearly as much. Here we'd gain horses.

Our espionage against Qin has fallen so we can't see his research anymore. His points have also jumped up a lot. I notice the others have increased theirs too towards us and more than us. With our economy the way it is though, I'm thinking we should probably ignore the slider until we can build up our economy.

I'd really like to have that worker start a road on the copper before our borders pop, but that barb archer is rather threatening. Maybe he'll wander off in a turn or two.

I like the ivory city, but I'm afraid our economy won't be able to handle it.