Demogame Moderators and Participation

[Bill_in_PDX]

Discussion

At least one citizen has posted in the Judiciary Thread asking for a discussion on this matter.

Current Fanatikan laws state that demogame Moderator election and office holding participation is limited to positions in the Judicial branch of government.

This discussion involves the law itself. Given the leadership vacuum that exists in many parts of our game today, I would prefer that we repeal the law barring mod participation in other offices.

However, we also need to discuss if the ban on mod office holding should be extended to any mod in the CFC hierarchy.

Opinions please?

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Bill_in_PDX
Discussion

At least one citizen has posted in the Judiciary Thread asking for a discussion on this matter.

Current Fanatikan laws state that demogame Moderator election and office holding participation is limited to positions in the Judicial branch of government.

This discussion involves the law itself. Given the leadership vacuum that exists in many parts of our game today, I would prefer that we repeal the law barring mod participation in other offices.

However, we also need to discuss if the ban on mod office holding should be extended to any mod in the CFC hierarchy.

Opinions please?

Well, there is no reason to extend it to mods that effectively relinquish their powers when 'stepping' into this forum. It may be a moot point, though. If participation doesn't increase, I am going to repeal the entire law, and drag Shaitan kicking and screaming and sit him in a cabinet seat.

 

[Octavian X]

I would oppose any CFC mod from holding office. They have the power to ban people all over the fourms. Even if they can't edit posts, this is reason enough for me to be against it.

Again, I would like to state, before I make someone mad, that Chieftess, Shaitan, and eyrei are all excellent Democracy Game citizens. Not that I don't trust them, I simply feel that it all to possible for another, less trustworthy, CFC mod to take office, and abuse power.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Octavian X
I would oppose any CFC mod from holding office. They have the power to ban people all over the fourms. Even if they can't edit posts, this is reason enough for me to be against it.

Again, I would like to state, before I make someone mad, that Chieftess, Shaitan, and eyrei are all excellent Democracy Game citizens. Not that I don't trust them, I simply feel that it all to possible for another, less trustworthy, CFC mod to take office, and abuse power.

This was the primary argument against it last time. I will make you all a promise. If I ever retire my 'modhood', I will reestablish this clause in the constitution. I imagine that Shaitan will be willing to make the same promise.

Besides, they still have to be elected...

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

I think mods that arent the mods of the game should hold any position in the game and the demogame mods should hold positions such as president and judicial positions. Given that there hasnt been much participation in the game we need to do something to increase the participation, if that means mods then so be it, just because they can ban people doesnt mean they should hold a position. People cant honestly think that a mod will ban someone if the citizen doesnt agree with them that would be abusing their mod powers and TF would take away their powwa stick So let mods be leaders if this hit a poll id be voteing in favor if it thats for sure

 

[Plexus]

I feel that mods should be allowed to hold office, you have to be a pretty decent person to become a mod in the first place...

 

[Cyc]

I was originally opposed to Mods holding offices other than Judicial. This was not because I was afraid of being banned, it was mostly because I didn't want the new people feeling intimidated by the veteran players, who could basically walk in and take over the game. This is why I wanted the law to restrict all Mods.

Now I am reversing my opinion. I say let any and all apply for the position they want. We have given our new, younger leaders plenty of leeway (sp). Now we need to get this game back on track.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

I agree with Cyc in that Mods should be allowed to run for office.

It is fine to make it a campaign issue for those who are concerned, but I fear that our senior, proven leaders will be chosen for modship, and that depletes our ranks.

I am satisfied with some of our new leaders, Eklekitos especially, but I feel we should not exclude a mod just because he or she is a mod.

Bill

 

[disorganizer]

now my opinion:

we have 2 opportunities:
1) delete the law and allow moderators all access to all offices
or
2) keep the law as it is

now both will be fine with me, BUT:
if we choose 2), then we have to define something:
the law states moderators, now who is a moderator?

we defined the law for the demogame-moderators, not to exclude all cfc-moderators. but that means a clarification:
imho, moderators should be considered all persons actively posting mod-actions in the demogame subforum or the dedicated demogame moderators.

now what is the sense of this? this will force the cfc moderators which are citizens to stay out of mod action in this subforum or give up their offices. (of course proper wording is required here)

the example (and the reason why i escalated this):
ct is no dedicated demogame mod. as that she would not fall unter the law and could run for office.
but with talking as mod in the pub, she would automatically have fallen under the law as she impersonated a moderator there.
she would have to resign her office afterwards and would not be able to run for another office for the rest of the game.
this would have forced her to contact the dedicated mods instead.

why did i escelate this?
because it was time for it and because i waited for a good example to show what can happen. it was all told verbally before, but nobody seemed to have realized that it can happen.

 

[Shaitan]

I think the restriction should be removed. No matter what, every leader (including mods) have to be elected (or at least ratified if beign appointed to a vacant seat). Give the people the option. If their afraid of mods in power they'll vote for another candidate.

 

[donsig]

I have also shed my reservations regarding mods holding office. However, I am still very adamant in my feelings that mods should not be enforcing demo game rules. As long as mods only enforce forum rules there should be no problem. I also think that non-demo game mods should report forum rule infractions to eyrei or Shaitan rather than step in on their own.

 

[Eklektikos]

After one and a half terms of seeing Shaitan & Eyrei in action as combined moderators/citizens, I now number among those who no longer feel that mods should not hold elected positions.

I do agree with Donsig that mods from other CFC fora should refrain from indulging their itchy trigger fingers in the demogame fora, and report any suspected violations of CFC rules to the demogame mods instead.

 

[FortyJ]

I see no reason why a mod shouldn't be able to hold any office within the government.

 

[Padma]

I don't have any problem with the idea of a mod holding any demogame office. I think all mods know when and where to draw the line between "game" actions and forum/modship actions.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

There seems to be growing sentiment to eliminate the law.

I see Octavian's points, but wonder if any other citizens share the opposing view?

 

[FortyJ]

I too can sympathize with Octavian's concerns, but in my opinion, any mod that takes unwarranted retaliatory or punitive action against a citizen should not be a mod in the first place.

 

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by Octavian X
Again, I would like to state, before I make someone mad, that Chieftess, Shaitan, and eyrei are all excellent Democracy Game citizens. Not that I don't trust them, I simply feel that it all to possible for another, less trustworthy, CFC mod to take office, and abuse power.

I'm not worried about other mods abusing power here. Mods are answerable to the mod community in general and Thunderfall in particular. Any action on these forums is moderated by eyrei and myself. I can guarantee that if any mod abused their powers by applying them in this game that they would only get the chance to do this once.

In the worst case scenario (banning) the victim can still PM eyrei, myself or Thunderfall.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

Well, once we reach the appropriate point in the discussion timeline, I will be proposing that we strike CoF, Section F, points 3 and 4, and replace them with text indicating that Mods are not officials in the government, however they can be elected or appointed to any position in the demo game.

We'll need to wordsmith it.

 

[disorganizer]

We maybe should also state that misuse of moderator powers in the demogame forum will result in permanent exclusion from the demogame.

We also should state there that all moderating requests by a mody citizen should be directed to the dedicated moderators of the demogame forums instead of using the moddy powers thyself thus preserving the happyness of the community and prevent uproar in the populace.

 

[Shaitan]

There's no need to put explicit warnings in the rules. Behavior will always be punished appropriately either through the PI system or through moderator chanels, as appropriate.