Department of Turnplay

[RickFGS]

For all their craftiness, Council and Free are outthinking themselves. I forgot we can just trade TGL to BABE once the other two have passed on their knowledge to each other (ie, after we learn education). Then BABEs learn everything and give it to us anyways.

Excellent! We should gift the G Lib 1/2 turns after we learn education though just to make sure the F/C axis really traded Astro/Chemistry around.

Another sugestion: We could even wait a few more turn and trade TGL to BABE in 10 turns after that to get Magnetism/Mil Tra/Theory of Gravity (just getting over-excited here in how to maiximize our exploit)

Of course, will this work, i´v never even tryied this before....

 

[jb1964]

For all their craftiness, Council and Free are outthinking themselves. I forgot we can just trade TGL to BABE once the other two have passed on their knowledge to each other (ie, after we learn education). Then BABEs learn everything and give it to us anyways.

Holy Cow! That's a banner idea. How many of the infrastructure buildings do we loose in that case?

Can the GLib be swapped back and forth for continuous techs?

This seems like a huge exploit. Are we comfortable with this?

 

[killercane]

Well its just a variation on gifting Leos that everyone was comfortable with. And FC is exploiting TGL by getting around it by not trading so I think its fair game.

 

[Daghdha]

I'd say that if island fortress defense is ok (not in rule set), then our idea of a "wondershop" is ok (not in rule set). Remember, shared joy is double joy

 

[jb1964]

Hooking up w/ the Babes was certainly a good idea but I'm beginning to feel like we're tied at the hip w/ the one guy int the neighborhood that's hell bent on holding a grudge and causing trouble.

As time goes on Saber, like it or not, is going to become a threat and we'll continue to face the prospect of a 3v2 game.

We'll almost certainly wind up in a confrontation w/ FREE and I would like that to proceed w/o having to watch my back door for the likes of Saber.

At some point we may have to find some way of shaking hands w/ Saber even if it drives the Babes nuts.

 

[RickFGS]

I think SABER will unite with COUNCIL to land BABES leaving FREE alone to attack us, so we will prob need to assist Babes in ther island while fighting FREE at the same time.

If we are to win this our alliance must not fall back in techs.

We have this message from SABER asking for a quick reply:

"We are about to get the save from The Council and would like to know now what you will be offering Education for. This is very time sensitive. Please repy with a solid answer. Thanks."

Also: I agree. It's not enough to haggle over. jb says forget about the gold. So we'll expect to see contact w/Free for the FROF on luxs in the next save WITH an accept button.

We have a deal set up already w/Council for Engineering and Theology. That may be written in stone, I'll see. After that, the field is open. Education, Invention, Banking, Gunpowder, the works. I'll try to give you lowball prices. I'll be in touch.

Cyc
Saber Ambassador

This is real shame since we dont have education yet, i sugest we delay them and say something like "We well send you Education in 2/3 turns for X gold"

As for peace with SABER what was our reply to this:

GONG,
Thank you for the reply. It all sounds good, but we are trying to be extra careful what entanglements we become involved in. We definitely would not have a problem in a long-term peace with the GONG team, but not indefinitely. Let's say maybe a peace treaty that coincides with this equitable Tech trading deal (to include our Middle Age freebie) for a set amount of turns. We could work with you on this.

We've just completed a Tech deal with Council, but we have no long -term deals with Frouncil. Because of the tension in negotiation with FRouncil, our current peace treaty with Council may be up for re-consideration shortly. That remains to be seen.

So a SABONG deal may look good in a turn or 2. What are your thoughts on this?

Cyc
Saber Ambassador

 

[RFHolloway]

In my view

X >= the amount of cash that would enable us to do a full burn on astro as soon as edu comes in. In my view we want that as soon as possible after edu.

Lets take it to the seas!

The Irish Rover
Traditional
On the fourth of July eighteen hundred and six
We set sail from the sweet cove of Cork
We were sailing away with a cargo of bricks
For the grand city hall in New York
'Twas a wonderful craft, she was rigged fore-and-aft
And oh, how the wild winds drove her.
She'd got several blasts, she'd twenty-seven masts
And we called her the Irish Rover.

We had one million bales of the best Sligo rags
We had two million barrels of stones
We had three million sides of old blind horses hides,
We had four million barrels of bones.
We had five million hogs, we had six million dogs,
Seven million barrels of porter.
We had eight million bails of old nanny goats' tails,
In the hold of the Irish Rover.

There was awl Mickey Coote who played hard on his flute
When the ladies lined up for his set
He was tootin' with skill for each sparkling quadrille
Though the dancers were fluther'd and bet
With his sparse witty talk he was cock of the walk
As he rolled the dames under and over
They all knew at a glance when he took up his stance
And he sailed in the Irish Rover

There was Barney McGee from the banks of the Lee,
There was Hogan from County Tyrone
There was Jimmy McGurk who was scarred stiff of work
And a man from Westmeath called Malone
There was Slugger O'Toole who was drunk as a rule
And fighting Bill Tracey from Dover
And your man Mick McCann from the banks of the Bann
Was the skipper of the Irish Rover

We had sailed seven years when the measles broke out
And the ship lost it's way in a fog.
And that whale of the crew was reduced down to two,
Just meself and the captain's old dog.
Then the ship struck a rock, oh Lord what a shock
The bulkhead was turned right over
Turned nine times around, and the poor dog was drowned
I'm the last of the Irish Rover

 

[jb1964]

Turn 130 came in last night.

Rick, do you want to pick up some of the diplo duties?

 

[RickFGS]

Hum, i´m not much of a diplomat....i´ll leave it to you if you dont mind....

We got Education from the F/C Council meaning they have developed Astro/Chemistry.

DSOTM should go to BABES to get techs from F/C after Cath is rdy (4 more turns), and then start on a prebuild for Cope´s/Newton´s or JS Bach´s. Bach´s could be a replacement for Sistines....just a thought....

There are some cities rioting or about to riot.

 

[killercane]

A cath will disappear there if we do the GLibe trick. We might produce a worker there or a few to add back in since it will starve when we give it to BABEs (unavoidable I think).

Council wants to know how much we will sell techs for. So...? What do you guys think?

 

[RickFGS]

I´m saying let the cath finish, its only 4 turns and then give it to BABE.

"They are saying 33% of monopoly costs" - Council Offer

As for SABER we can make a counter-council-proposal of 25% of monopoly cost? Meaning more or less 250 gold per tech? is that correct?

Note: Our current culture per turn is 276 and estimated win is 1735AD

 

[RFHolloway]

I´m saying let the cath finish, its only 4 turns and then give it to BABE.

but the cath will dissappear on gifting - so no point - the only point is to wait until the others feel safe and have traded

 

[killercane]

If someone can pick up the save, please do so. Otherwise I will play it in the morning. I think all there is to do is change DSOTM to a galley or something, and fix unhappies with taxmen.

 

[RickFGS]

but the cath will dissappear on gifting - so no point - the only point is to wait until the others feel safe and have traded

Oh, i didnt knew that, i guess i´m not much of a gifter of cities....

 

[RFHolloway]

I think it will anyway - It certainly will on conquering - so in my view not worth taking the risk.

 

[jb1964]

It's also looking like it's time to switch back to Rep. CAII is showing a boost to income by moving to Rep.

 

[jb1964]

Cost of swapping wonders.

Assuming the tech is traded between Frouncil
Tech Values:
Astro: 1296
Chem: 1388
Total: 2684g
Shield value: 671s

Now factor in the fact that we're splitting the costs of research w/ the Babes and our gain is 1342g or 335s.

Sugar Mountain (Great Gong Lib)
Cath (80), Temp(30), Racks(40), Granary(60), Lib(80) for a total of 290s

If we swap them DSoTM (Leo's & Pyramids) we also lose 290s worth of structures.
FP(200), Temp(30), Gran(60)

However, there's at least the following...
Can we rebuild the FP?
Do we lose out on culture doubling?

I think the answer to both of these questions is "yes".


Anyway, this is sort of a work in progress. I'm I little muddled at the moment and need to get out the door to work.

 

[RickFGS]

Or.... im thinking maybe we could wait more and then net some 4-6 techs , that would allow us to do 0% tech research and BABE could go Democracy/ Economy and other not priority but not so bad techs from the upper tier tech tree....because they are after all in golden age and must use that advantage to research, what you guys think...

With Democracy we could switch to the best government instead of Republic he he he, less corruption, more money, better workers = faster railroads! We are religious lets take advantage of it.

 

[killercane]

I would like to wait and get more out of it, maybe Chemistry and Nav/Banking. We will be able to see when they get Chem. For some reason I was under the impression TGL was in DSOTM not Sugar. Indeed that does suck since we are building workers from DSOTM, and need to just build a cath there now. Sugar however can rebuild everything quickly if we gift it. So I think it is better to go ahead and gift Sugar rather than Leos, they will have to do without that. I am fine either way however; the only problem is that we will have a hard time researching while still growing.

Democracy would kill us with the unit support, and we dont need the fast workers since everything is almost already cleared. Maybe when we get to Steampower that would be useful?

 

[jb1964]

If we do want to wait for more techs then rather than workers out of DSOTM we could put a racks and pump out some spears? I don't think it would be hard to get it to 20spt.

My concern is that the others will gain enough tech and muscle to pay us a very unwelcome and painful visit. We still don't have the sea lanes blocked and that has to be a top priority.

If I had to guess the threat is low. Council has to concentrate on Babe and FREE is as weak as we are. Saber is starting to become a problem. They're strong and they've been very silent despite several messages to them regarding a peace agreement.