Design: Improvements
- Thread starter Kael
- Start date
Chalid
Black Dragon
Right now pillaging your own nodes allows the player to optimze their own Adepts. I think we should prevent that.
As mechanism i would propose the following.
Upon pillaging not the orginal mana resource is produced but a kind of discharged Mana.
This Resource allows to build an Improvemnt that needs about 20 Turns to grow. When grown a normal Mana resource is generated. The growth might be either automatic or need the tile to be worked (which i would prefer, but it might complicate things for the AI) So Pillaging Nodes is still a valid strategy but comes with a cost (Mana not available for 20 Turns and one bad Plot must be worked).
As mechanism i would propose the following.
Upon pillaging not the orginal mana resource is produced but a kind of discharged Mana.
This Resource allows to build an Improvemnt that needs about 20 Turns to grow. When grown a normal Mana resource is generated. The growth might be either automatic or need the tile to be worked (which i would prefer, but it might complicate things for the AI) So Pillaging Nodes is still a valid strategy but comes with a cost (Mana not available for 20 Turns and one bad Plot must be worked).
Chalid
Black Dragon
Im adding a speacial treatment for the mana resources at the moment. This will be triggerd by setting the Bonusclass of unimproves mana to BONUSCLASS_RAWMANA and the bonusclass of improved mana to BONUSCLASS_MANA. This makes ist easy to add additional mana types, add tooltips and AI-behavior without hardcoding the manas tehemselves and without adding additional XMLTags.
Chalid said:
Thats cool, Im not sure what the relationship is between the bonusclass and the map maker. If there isn't one then this is fine. Basically as long as the random map generator is still randomly depostiting mana nodes then this sounds great.
Chalid
Black Dragon
PriestOfDiscord said:
At the moment the resource goes instanly back to a neutral mana node. We might change this and add an deactivated mana resource that will have to be activated with an improvement, maybe like a town or something (needding 10 to 20 turns to become an mana resource again). Because otherwise you could tailor each adept by pillaging and rebuilding nodes to your wishes.
Thats my proposal anyway.
wilboman
Hibernorse Frost Giant
The problem with requiring the tile to be reworked in order to regenerate, is that that would mean that if some barbarian pillaged a mana resource out of range of your towns, it would not come back unless you went and built a town there for that express purpose!
I know that would annoy me.
I know that would annoy me.
Chalid
Black Dragon
You are absolutely right. How about: when you have placed the improvement you get a chance for reactivation each turn? Like with the growth of ancient forests.
wilboman
Hibernorse Frost Giant
So you could get it back next turn, or you could get it back in 30 turns? That might work, but the problem with that is that some people would just reload and reload until they got the desired result.
Is there a way of making the resource disappear when pillaged, then reappear in the same square after a set amount of time?
Is there a way of making the resource disappear when pillaged, then reappear in the same square after a set amount of time?
Chalid
Black Dragon
I dont think that people will klick end of the turn so long but i have another idea. we do it like towns (fixed number of turns) but count up one each turn regardless if the improvement is worked. should not be too difficult
wilboman
Hibernorse Frost Giant
That sounds like the best option to me. But set the turn requirement to about 10 turns, not 20. That would make rebuilding mana resources hard as heck if you lose some in a war.
Chalid
Black Dragon
Mana does not turn to Raw Mane when the node is overbuilt. Either we prohibit overbuilding or we have to think of something clever/include it somewhere in the SDK (Might want to do this after we included the AIBonusAndMana Module).
Kael shall i incorporate some code for this into it? Maybe the deactivated Mana resources as well?
Kael shall i incorporate some code for this into it? Maybe the deactivated Mana resources as well?
Chalid said:
I'll wipe the raw mana node in python. It will only be one line.
Im not to worried about tailoring adepts because the build time is so long to improve nodes that it isnt worthwile to do. Maybe we just add a small chance (5%) that nodes are destroyed entirely on pillage? That should scare anyone off playign with them, and force players to protect them a little more.
Chalid
Black Dragon
Yeap i think that 5% chanche would be a good idea. I'll look into the cottage thing later. Now i go back to the dragon.. I'm making real good progress at the moment 
Chalid
Black Dragon
Hmm ok have an solution for the overbuilt problem. Just have to code it 
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Nikis-Knight
Deity
Battlegrounds--rare at first, with a 1% chance of being created on any tile without resources or cites when a unit dies. When improved by workers or prophet types to consecrated battlefields, +1 commerce and they could:
supply a small amount of culture each turn (like 1 or .5 if possible) centered on that square,
Any unit who gains exp. while standing on that square or attacking into it gets double the amount. (excluding hero auto exp, maybe mages too.)
or Perhaps also a 1-2% chance of spawning a nightmare each turn, controlled by that player or maybe barbs.
Dimensional Rifts--can be improved by adept class or workers into portal gates granting 3-5 exp to any unit summoned on that tile.
supply a small amount of culture each turn (like 1 or .5 if possible) centered on that square,
Any unit who gains exp. while standing on that square or attacking into it gets double the amount. (excluding hero auto exp, maybe mages too.)
or Perhaps also a 1-2% chance of spawning a nightmare each turn, controlled by that player or maybe barbs.
Dimensional Rifts--can be improved by adept class or workers into portal gates granting 3-5 exp to any unit summoned on that tile.
Nikis-Knight
Deity
sorry for the repeat post, I come up with lots of ideas at work all day.
How about traps to make recons units more fun?
Traps would:
+take 1-4 turns to set up.
+only be built by one specific recon unit
+only allow one per unit of that type, just like the skeleton summon
+be invisible to all players who don't have open borders agreement with the creator
+only be built on unimproved terrain, but borders shouldn't matter.
+would last until they effected one unit per level of the setter, unless pillaged before
+when set off, would have the same diplomatic effect of pillaging their land, i.e., other civs would declare war. (so you shouldn't set them in unclaimed land if you aren't willing to suffer the consequences, but civs with open borders could see them and should be programmed to avoid them.
Traps and effects (untested, should of course be tested and adjusted)
Scout-Snare: Would cast entangle on the next unit to enter tile (one unit per level of scout)
Hunter-Pit trap: Would do .1 damage per level of hunter, and charm any animals hit.
Ranger-Spike Pit: Would do .2 damage per level of ranger and cast entangle
Beast Master-Snake Pit: Would do .3 damage per level of beast master and cast whither
Assassain-Poison Arrow trap: Would have a 20 + Assassain level - victim strength % chance of killing unit setting it off. (Or if too complicated, set 15%)
Shadow-Scrying Arrow: Would plant a scrying stone on the target, granting the Shadow's player line of sight of that unit for 1 turn per shadow level.
Sorry if traps have been discussed, haven't seen it. Guild Wars Icons would work great here, btw.
How about traps to make recons units more fun?
Traps would:
+take 1-4 turns to set up.
+only be built by one specific recon unit
+only allow one per unit of that type, just like the skeleton summon
+be invisible to all players who don't have open borders agreement with the creator
+only be built on unimproved terrain, but borders shouldn't matter.
+would last until they effected one unit per level of the setter, unless pillaged before
+when set off, would have the same diplomatic effect of pillaging their land, i.e., other civs would declare war. (so you shouldn't set them in unclaimed land if you aren't willing to suffer the consequences, but civs with open borders could see them and should be programmed to avoid them.
Traps and effects (untested, should of course be tested and adjusted)
Scout-Snare: Would cast entangle on the next unit to enter tile (one unit per level of scout)
Hunter-Pit trap: Would do .1 damage per level of hunter, and charm any animals hit.
Ranger-Spike Pit: Would do .2 damage per level of ranger and cast entangle
Beast Master-Snake Pit: Would do .3 damage per level of beast master and cast whither
Assassain-Poison Arrow trap: Would have a 20 + Assassain level - victim strength % chance of killing unit setting it off. (Or if too complicated, set 15%)
Shadow-Scrying Arrow: Would plant a scrying stone on the target, granting the Shadow's player line of sight of that unit for 1 turn per shadow level.
Sorry if traps have been discussed, haven't seen it. Guild Wars Icons would work great here, btw.
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