Design: Improvements

[Sureshot]

I was thinking itd be neat to be able to make sentry towers, and that inn idea is really neat too. Building forts on forests would help the situation for sure.

 

[Kael]

I was thinking itd be neat to be able to make sentry towers, and that inn idea is really neat too. Building forts on forests would help the situation for sure.

I once planned to have a whole line of defences. I imagined countries would be able to build walls around their empires complete with guard towers and gates. But the problem with it is that the AI doesnt understand appropriate use of them. So I couldnt make the improvements that strategic (hence the random sentry towers instead of the ability to build them).

 

[QES]

Floating Island: Units In Square are unattackable except by Air Units. Units in square slowly lose health (Lack of food) Only Able to be created by a high level Arcane spell caster.

Graveyard: Necromancy Only. Plains or Grassland or Desert or Tundra. Square will randomly generate Skelitons as Barbarians in Good or Neutral or unowned land, as owned Units In Evil Land.

Eagles Nest: On Peaks only (Dont ask me how to get up there to build it). Randomly Generates Giant Eagles that will engage enemy Troops (Like Valourous promotion)

Infernal Pit: Sacrifice Unit In Pit to have a chance at being given a Demon Unit. (Any Evil Land)

Fortress: (Up to 3 kinds.) 50% Bonus on defence AND Bonus v. Calvary. / Bonus V. Archery. / Zone of Control like Civ2.

Sand Kings: Desert Only (Desert Peoples can build only) +2 Gold from Carcases, -20% Str any enemy unit standing in square.

Arcane Island: Water Improvement(Possible?) Buildable only By Arcane Barge. +2 Hammers -3 gold. (OO civs only?)

 

[loki1232]

-Deleted-

I have an idea for the malakim: Whenever they build a road across a desert, their is a chance of discovering an oasis.

 

[QES]

-Deleted-

I have an idea for the malakim: Whenever they build a road across a desert, their is a chance of discovering an oasis.

Oh this is so much better of an idea than "improving" the desert tiles. Just every road construction like a X% chance. Yes!
Now if it was also HARDER for other civs to manage / negotiate desert, all the better.
-Qes

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Don't forget incense usually appears in deserts, and is a valuable strategic resource, so we can't cripple other civs too much in them without changing that.

 

[Jono]

Don't oasises take an additional movement point?

 

[vorshlumpf]

Yup.

- Niilo

 

[bdmarti]

Possible forrest improvement -- Brambles.

There is ample opportunity for mobility in the game, but little one can do to slow down their opponents.
I suggest the addition of a brambles improvement to forrest plots with the following effects:

+2 movement cost
+1 food

and, if it is possible to hurt an enemy entering a plot,
5% damage to living units entering or attacking into plot

This improvement could supply users with forrest plots that feed themselves and it would add an interesting mechanic to counter all the fast moving units in the game.

 

[BCalchet]

Whaling Boats. They really need a huge boost, I'd say.

As rare as those whales are, I'd like to see something like 333 from an improved whale ocean tile, or a maximum of 534 for Hannah with a lighthouse.

 

[KaNeaGE]

not sure if its possible , but what if deserts gave +1 Hammer +1 Commerce but only Malikim can use/see the tile for what it gives. then allow malikim to build a few improvements on them. Perhaps some Malikim exclusive improvements similar to the elven improvements. Malikim Farms that use oasis as freshwater irrigation for farms.

Cottage is also a good improvement but i think they should be capped at hamlet or village while in a desert. in a normal tile they can/should be able to grow up to town but not in a desert.

likewise i think this should hold true for elves. Town+Ancient Forest is ridiculous so why not cap it off at hamlet/village. towns need space and they are building in a limited area (forest)

 

[Maniac]

Instead of wanting to give the Malakim permanent desert production boni, why not simply see them as people who start out as desert nomads, but what they really want is create a fertile paradise (eg like those Dune guys)? Them continuing to worship the sun during a desert nomad -> garden of Eden evolution still makes sense, as the sun makes plants grow.

 

[loki1232]

I liek that- Perhaps all of the deserts under their rule have a small chance each turn of becoming grasslands?

 

[Maniac]

Or just give them water mana, if a minor change is preferred?

 

[QES]

I just had a crazy idea for deserts and Malakim.

An improvement that has absolutely no phsycial representation on the map.

Bare with me.

Call it "Obolisk" (working title)
It could only be built by adepts or disciples units, or mayhaps that torch guy thing. (If the AI Needs it...then <sigh> workers)

The "Obolisk" improvement would provide 1 and 2 and 2 . Essentially it'd be desert that would be productive only for the malakim, and wouldnt create any sort of "improvment sprawl" that plagues ffh. It'd be barly visable, or NOT visable. It should, regardless, Be pillageable.

The excuse could be that the "Obolisk" improvement is some small shrine that allows the growth of wonderous material Amanita Muscaria (Halluciagenic Egyptian Mushroom considered the "food of the gods") and this Amanita Muscaria provides the above incomes. It is ONLY useable by the malakim in ceramonies and the like, so its not a tradeable/valueable resource.

Net Results - A possible 2 2 2 square that would be pretty tasty to malakim civs. The Downside? They dislike Shade, give them -1 in all forest types, and -1 in jungle.

The natural inclination would be for the malakim to spread to more open areas, and away from conjested woods and jungle.

Perhaps also provide a building, that could only be built ON a desert square, I.e. the city has to be ON the desert. This building would provide the city center with +1 and +2

This would also increase the wish for malakim players to scorch the living daylights out of everything. Downside? Maybe -1 from mines?

-Qes

EDIT: I know i said earlier i didnt want the Desert to ever be "useful" but there really isnt ever a push for the malakim to be IN desert, this could push them in that direction.

EDIT2: Renamed the improvement "obolisk" personally i think that the thing in city centers could also be called the "monolith". Obolisks in SMAC provided 2 nutriants, 2 mineral, and 2 energy, exactly what this would supply. it was a be-all standard for a good tile, but not a highly worthy tile late game.

 

[Maniac]

EDIT: I know i said earlier i didnt want the Desert to ever be "useful" but there really isnt ever a push for the malakim to be IN desert, this could push them in that direction.

The Malakim don't want to destroy the world. It just doesn't make sense to give the Malakim boni to desertify. People live in marginal lands because they have no other choice, not because they want to.

 

[loki1232]

The Malakim don't want to destroy the world. It just doesn't make sense to give the Malakim boni to desertify. People live in marginal lands because they have no other choice, not because they want to.

yes. The malakim connection with deserts is fighitng capability.

 

[QES]

The Malakim don't want to destroy the world. It just doesn't make sense to give the Malakim boni to desertify. People live in marginal lands because they have no other choice, not because they want to.

I agree. But the association of desert and malakim is really underplayed in FfH, at least so i feel.

To have a legitimate reason to have the malakim IN desert, would require some excuse for how they adapted to it. Giving them production boni pushes the envelope, i know, but also creates a reason for seeing the malakim IN the desert.

Otherwise, the Malakim will be in goregeous grassland/forest expanses just like everyone else. Not a lot of diversity when everyone has the same thing.

Perhaps if everyone wanted the same thing, but not all could have the same, thing, that'd be good. But as is, everyone terraforms, and everyone eventually GETs grasslands and forests.
-Qes

EDIT: @loki, Exactly. I want it to be limited to that too. But what reason would the Malakim ever be in desert if they didnt have to be? IF they're flavor comes from being desert folk type survivors, and their coolness from enduring harsh conditions. If they're never IN those conditions, because they dont willingly expand into Those conditions, why are they specialized for those conditions? Sort of an evolution vs design, vs opportunity issue.

Does the land make a people? Or the people make a land? I always believed the former. But with civ, we dont have blank-slate civilizations becoming specific "honed" civilizations. We have honed civilizations fit to a profile, one that they may not actually embody in any given game.

The Landlocked Lanun. The Desert Doviello, The Lushvale Malakim, The Forest flat-land dwarves, the Mountainous highland elves. While, cool for an "offkilter" sort of feel, unless each civilization is driven to WANT to be in their particular set of lands through boni etc, then they will chose to expand to wherever is "best" for them, which may NOT be what they are specialized (or flavorly intended) to be specialists for.

EDIT2: If the civs started in their appropriate lands, then it wouldnt matter, it would be self-defining. But when its random and they start wherever, willynilly, then there really isnt a reason for their specialization. Why would the malakim be excellent at traversing desert, if they'd not seen one till the 600th turn? Why are the doviello more frosty, if they spawned from hot steamy jungles? Why are dwarven mines so wonderful if most of their civilzation has grown up in plains and fields? Why do the Lanun have superb ships if they only reach the sea after 400 turns? These questions become blaring without reasons for expanse, or careful map placement.

 

[Maniac]

I'd suggest to play with dreiche2's map scripts which give certain civs fitting starting conditions, including the Malakim in a desert area. Then the goal for them rightly so becomes not to actively seek out deserts, but get out of them asap.

 

[QES]

I'd suggest to play with dreiche2's map scripts which give certain civs fitting starting conditions, including the Malakim in a desert area. Then the goal for them rightly so becomes not to actively seek out deserts, but get out of them asap.

I hope that these map scripts are enhanced and continued to be improved.

But, fundamentally, the nature of specaialization occurs because of the adaptation, necessetated generally from lack of other options, to a given condition.

Assuming the Malakim were able to escape the deserts, perhaps with but ONE city in or near them. Why are they specialized? Does mere contact beget specialization?

Would the Lanun holding one port city legitimize their expertise in shipcraft?

My arguement is fundamentally that not only must specialization include access, but more than that, majority of a civilziation to aquire that much adaptation to a given condition. Therefore, Dwarves must pursue mountains, elves forests, Lanun the sea, Malakim the deserts, and the Doviello the frosty parts of the globe (when not raping and/or pillaging).

Elsewise, we've still very weak excuses as to why specialization occurs.
-Qes