Design Thread - For Discussion and Review

[Uighur_Caesar]

If I had to split the Mongols entirely I would do Genghis as the warmonger, the Yuan Dynasty with trade and using conquered people in government, the Il-Khanate with war and adopting a foreign religion, and the Golden Horde with tribute considering how they collected tribute from the Rus, Bulgarians, and other Eastern Europeans.

 

[Tarmont]

If the leader is Batu Khan, I'd give the Golden Horde some bonus about continuously conquering cities until something forces you to stop, given that they were tasked with conquering as far as the Atlantic Ocean, and like the Ilkhanate only had to stop because the Great Khan died. If the leader is Ozbeg, something about slave trade and religion. Also something related to giving food to the Capital (New Sarai). I'd aim to keep the Rus' stuff in a Golden Horde design at a bare minimum, instead of molding the entire civ around it.

 

[Filiki Eterian]

Why does everyone forget the Chagatai?

 

[Zantonius Hamm]

Because they boring!

 

[Zantonius Hamm]

Welp, anyway, in honour of my new avatar, here's a design. Rip it to shreds!

The Chaos Empire

Discord

Neverending Strife
Receive a random bonus or penalty that switches every turn.*

Random Creature
Does not replace any unit by default. Upon being constructed, it turns into a random unit from the game, with abilities depending on the current bonus or penalty.

Chaos Throne
Doubles certain bonuses and penalties for the city, unlike the Palace it replaces.

Spoiler :

*Possible bonuses/penalties include but are not limited to:
Free Social Policy
Free Technology
+15 XP to all military units
Free random Great Person
Meet all civs
Lose all military units
All cities enter resistance for five turns
X Citizens are converted to a random religion
Lose all citizens in a city

(There are so many I could do )

Yes, this is a civ I want to do.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

Does the chance of you getting a bonus/penalty depend on how good/bad it is? It would be really OP if you have the same chance to get a social policy as you do to meet all civs. Likewise, it'd be disastrous if the chance of you going into anarchy for 5 turns is as likely as having a city converted.

 

[Hoop Thrower]

Also, sounds terribly overpowered if it's every turn. I could see it being fun if it's at the start of each era. I presume My Little Pony doesn't have a funky calendar, right? It'd be nice to see the Mayan code used elsewhere...

 

[Zantonius Hamm]

Does the chance of you getting a bonus/penalty depend on how good/bad it is? It would be really OP if you have the same chance to get a social policy as you do to meet all civs. Likewise, it'd be disastrous if the chance of you going into anarchy for 5 turns is as likely as having a city converted.

I should've clarified that, there is more chance for less important things to happen (like 'lose Culture' or 'gain Culture') than for larger, more gamechanging things.

Also, I should've thought a bit before posting the potential penalties/bonuses: it should only be one turn of Resistance in every city, since the bonus only lasts that one turn.

Also, sounds terribly overpowered if it's every turn. I could see it being fun if it's at the start of each era. I presume My Little Pony doesn't have a funky calendar, right? It'd be nice to see the Mayan code used elsewhere...

Meh, the every turn stuff is supposed to represent the chaotic nature of Discord. Anyone who has watched an episode with him in (especially the Return of Harmony part 2) will know what I mean. I want playing as him to be as random as possible. One turn all land units gain +100% combat strength, the next they are all turned into workers. Stuff like that. Doing the Mayan thing would just be boring.

I guess the best thing would be to make the larger ones (for instance free techs or losing all units) unlikely.

Also, maybe some of these bonuses/penalties could last longer than one turn... hm, there is so much potential, I'm going to love this civ!

 

[Firebug]

Saying a Civ is representing something doesn't mean it isn't OP, so it will probably need changing. Unless you plan on making another MLP civ which is also OP and they are meant to be played together.

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

Okay, I've been wondering about two things related to design:

- What is better, being iconic vs historical accuracy?

- Do you make your Civs based on your playstyle or do you make your Civs something that breaks with your usual playstyle?

1. I have to say that if this were CKII or EUIV, I'm a ridiculous stickler for historical accuracy - I'm actually a member of a pretty big modding team which focuses on historical accuracy for EUIV (MEIOU&T, if anyone's heard of it?) and I've spent a long time on that. However, I also recognise that Civ 5 is a game where the Communist empire of the Goths can sack Delhi with the help of the fascist Incan kingdom striving for complete accuracy is just a bit silly and therefore being iconic is, to me, a little more important. For example, the Normans did a hell of a lot more than just create the Bayeux tapestry, but my design for them would be almost entirely based off of their conquest of England, because its iconic. Also, by focusing on iconic features and exaggurating them, it differentiates the civs a bit more. If we try and be too accurate then there's not going to be much difference between a Mamluk civ, an Ayyubid civ and a Khedivate civ - being the splits guy, finding little differences between otherwise very similar civs is pretty important to my designs

2. I like civs which change your playstyle more than anything - though I suppose my own playstyle has an impact on that, since 'different style' might mean something different to me. Either way, I think a good civ encourages you to try something new which would be impossible with other civs. Keeps things fun over time.

 

[DoctorMcGann]

I don't see how Hamm's idea's OP. If you have an equal chance to gain a free tech and lose your entire army...I mean...Yeah.

 

[Natan35]

Okay, I've been wondering about two things related to design:

- What is better, being iconic vs historical accuracy?

- Do you make your Civs based on your playstyle or do you make your Civs something that breaks with your usual playstyle?

I think historical accuracy is good.... But I also think civs should be fun, and not restricted to the boundaries of history.... I can into English

I make my civs mine. I like playing with them as I always play, unless there's a damn good reason for me why not to(like with the Huns).

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

I've started a new project with Eli Khaliif that's focused on native peoples of America, Asia, and Australia. I have two designs finished right now and I'd like to get some feedback on them.

Apache

Leader: Geronimo

UA: Desert Raiders: All units gain a 20% combat bonus when attacking during the first 5 turns of a war. Cities being razed generate no unhappiness and give gold every turn they are being razed.

UU: Renegade: Replaces Rifleman. +1 movement, ignores rough terrain movement penalties, and no movement cost when pillaging.

UU: War Band: Replaces Cavalry. +1 movement. Heals 25 HP when capturing a civilian unit. Gains 20% more combat strength from flanking bonuses.

The Apache are all about quick warfare. They'll be able to do damage quickly and their invasion won't be set back by unhappiness penalties from cities that are being razed. The UUs are faster to make the most out of those first few turns of combat.

Taino

Leader: Agueybana II

UA: Slash and Burn: Workers clear Jungles/Forests and build Farms/Plantations 50% faster. +1 faith from farms and plantations and +1 food if they were built on cleared Forest or Jungle.

UGP: Cacique: Replaces Great General. When garrisoned, costs no maintenance and increases food production by 10%. Combat bonus to nearby units is 50% greater during defensive wars. 20% of your culture contributes to Cacique generation.

UB: Batey: Replaces Colosseum. +2 faith. +1 culture for every two citizens.

The Taino are a peaceful people that specialize in food production. The UA represents their agricultural techniques and their religion. Since they're peaceful, they can earn Caciques through culture and Caciques are useful during times of peace and extra effective when defending your territory. The Batey gives culture from population, which is very effective since the civ is all about growth.

I just finalized the Apache design so I haven't gotten any feedback on it. I got two comments about the Taino possibly being too strong. +1 faith from plantations is also used by Leugi's Haiti so maybe giving faith from farms only could be a good nerf. The building can also be very strong. I'm thinking about reducing it to 1 culture for every 4 pop. What do you guys think about them?

 

[Natan35]

Korea split!!!

Silla(Muyeol)

Spoiler :

UA: Sacred Bones
Specialist slots filled for more than X points become sacred bone* specialists. Whenever a new citizen is born, gain true bone** points based on the number of specialists in the city. During wars, the birth of new citizens also contributes production towards units(per each enemy).

UU: Hwarang
Replaces great general. Unlike it, may purchased with faith. It has combat strength***, and receives starting XP equal to the home city's faith output. May transfer XP to friendly units.

UU: Sodang
Replaces swordsman. Slightly stronger(15 ). Has the "Between Three Kingdoms" promotion, granting it +15% strength per each enemy you have(up to 45%). Also has the "Royal Guard" promotion, which causes it to reduce local unhappiness when stationed in a city.

*sacred bones act as a specialist of your choice(may be changed every X turns), and additionally yield 2 faith. They also contribute more production towards units and more true bone points upon the birth of new citizen.
**true bones may be used for 50% longer golden ages, or for a lump sum of faith.
***based on technologies that unlock melee units. Max. Strength 100(after nanotechnology).

Goryeo(Seongjong)

Spoiler :

UA: Tripitaka Koreana
+2 faith from great works and +3 faith from great person improvements. Scientific and religious buildings may be bought with faith, and increase great people generation by 10% if purchased this way(max. 30%).

UB: Seon School
Replaces temple. In addition to its effects, it yields +1 faith for each follower of your religion in the city, and contains a monk specialist.

UU: Great Monk
Replaces great prophet. Whenever stationed in a city, grants the benefits of his religion, and may create unique great works of writing. Additionally, it may found Mountain Monasteries (as opposed to holy sites), that yield 1 faith and science per each follower of your religion in the city, and also provide religious pressure.

Joseon(Sejong)

Spoiler :

UA: Legacy of Innovations
Upon Completing a building, receive Great scientist points for each other building or improvement that provides the same yields within the cities territory. For each era passed, cities gain +1 of the yields of each improvement type in their territory.

UU: Hwacha
Replaces Trebuchet. Unlike it, does not receive any boost against cities. Much stronger(10 , 24 ). Enemies receive no terrain\ fortification bonuses against it, But the Hwacha does receive those bonuses.

UB: Seowon
Replaces University. Costs no maintenance, and increases the yields of all specialists in the city by +1.

Middle Joseon(Seonjo)

Spoiler :

UA: Righteous Army
Your units gain +1 strength for each kill they make and generate extra XP and Great general points from fighting stronger civilizations. Each enemy unit in your territory grants production towards units in the nearest city.

UU: Panokseon
Replaces Galleass. More expansive, but stronger(20 , 20 ). Starts with the Targeting I and II promotions, and with "Battle of Myeongnyang" promotion, grants friendly units 10% combat boost against enemies in the Panokseon's range.

UU: Turtle Ship
Replaces Caravel. Requires one iron, and has non of the Caravel's attributes. Though slower(3 ), it is much stronger(32 ), and has the "Iron Protection" promotion, which makes it immune to bonuses vs. Ships*. Adjacent enemies receive a vision penalty(-1).

*boarding party, Targeting, Etc.

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

GOddammit I spent ages replying to your design Uighur and then my window crashed and I lost it. Basically, I think the apache is really cool. The whole design is pretty synergistic and would definitely encourage me to kill more people. That said, it'd be nice if there were something more of an incentive to conquer, since rn it only makes it obvious that you should do it without giving you a reason to go around burning everyones stuff, Gold isn't thaat useful after a certain point. Maybe I'm just asking for too much. Also the renegade could be a tad overpowered but no more so than say, a Keshik, so thats fiine.

Taino is coool, very peaceful and quite fun looking. Minor change I'd say is to connect the GG to faith generation rather than culture generation, since thats the main focus of the civ by the looks of things. I also agree that the building is OP - per four pop sounds balanced.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

GOddammit I spent ages replying to your design Uighur and then my window crashed and I lost it. Basically, I think the apache is really cool. The whole design is pretty synergistic and would definitely encourage me to kill more people. That said, it'd be nice if there were something more of an incentive to conquer, since rn it only makes it obvious that you should do it without giving you a reason to go around burning everyones stuff, Gold isn't thaat useful after a certain point. Maybe I'm just asking for too much. Also the renegade could be a tad overpowered but no more so than say, a Keshik, so thats fiine.

Taino is coool, very peaceful and quite fun looking. Minor change I'd say is to connect the GG to faith generation rather than culture generation, since thats the main focus of the civ by the looks of things. I also agree that the building is OP - per four pop sounds balanced.

What incentive do you think could work better?

Silla(Muyeol)

Spoiler :

UA: Sacred Bones
Whenever a new citizen is born, gain points towards a True bone based on the number of specialists in the city. True bones may be consumed for large amounts of faith, or for a golden age. May use faith to create sacred bone* specialists.

UU: Hwarang
Replaces great general. Unlike it, may purchased with faith. It has combat strength**, and may gain experience. Each other*** Hwarang increases combat strength by 5%.

UU: Sodang
Replaces swordsman. Slightly stronger(15 ). Has the "Between Three Kingdoms" promotion, granting it +15% strength per each enemy you have(up to 15%). Also has the "Royal Guard" promotion, which causes it to reduce local unhappiness and enemy spy effectiveness the farther it is from the capital.

*yields 3 faith and 2 True bone points. When a new citizen is born, grants a boost towards Hwarang.
**Based on technologies that unlock mounted units. Max. Strength 36, after military science.
***units within two tiles of Hwarang gain 15% boost, and additional 5% per each other Hwarang within two tiles of them.

How exactly do the Sacred Bones work? When they are created do you have to decide between faith and a golden age immediately or can you store them for later? And I feel like the "Between 3 kingdoms" promotion is kind of weird. It gives +15% per enemy, but only up to 15%. You might as well just give them +15% combat strength period. Also, is there a limit to the number of bone specialist you can have? Besides that I think this design is good.

 

[Natan35]

I will fix it... My split is not complete yet!

 

[Hoop Thrower]

Late Joseon looks pretty weird, particularly because neither of those uniques is particularly... late. I'd actually go for Empress Myeongseong as leader, and a focus on her attempts to modernize through foreign advisers.

 

[Natan35]

Well, its more of a mid joseon... Wanted a naval focus, I like those names. Mighty Panokseon! And Kuboksons! Or whatever...

 

[Hoop Thrower]

Imjin War Korea then, yeah, Kwasons, Panokseons and Kobuksons, a killer combo.