Dewey Must Die!

Seriously though, is there any reason to maintain the Dewey Decimal system anymore other than the fact that it would take libraries a lot of effort to rearrange their books?

Given the advent of modern search algorithms, I just can't find a use for Dewey anymore other than the tremendous inertia behind it. I'm not discounting that and in fact I know it won't go away if for no other reason reason than the inertia but what value does it bring anymore?

What value does Dewey have in our modern world?
It lets people find what they're looking for. The public library in my city uses Dewey, and so did my high school. I'd be very surprised if there are any school libraries here that don't use Dewey.

The college library uses Library of Congress, and it drove me nuts. After working in a library for two years and basically memorizing the most-often used areas of the Dewey system (social studies/history, English, and science), I ended up looking at alphabet soup and wondering which floor I was supposed to go to, never mind which section once I got there.

Dewey is intuitive, as long as you know your numbers and alphabet (for the authors' names and book titles).

It is way better than Library of Congress for sorting fiction. Whoever thought that you should spread out a single author's fiction all over the place really didn't understand people's reading habits. I've never understood why some fiction is categorized as non-fiction though.
Some authors' works are hard to pin down into a specific genre. For example, is Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover series science fiction or fantasy? It's got strong elements of both.

Some authors write in quite a variety of different genres or types of books. Barbara Hambly, for instance, has written science fiction, fantasy, and TV tie-in (ie. Star Trek). So in my own collection, I do differentiate where I put her books. Star Trek stuff is kept together. SF is kept together. Fantasy is kept together. Mystery is kept together. Historical mysteries are kept separate from plain historical fiction.

I'm in the process of keeping track of it in my Library Thing account (an online site where you can catalogue your books and there are several methods you can use to sort them). Once upon a time I used to keep track of my books in a couple of small notebooks that got weekly updates. But that's basically impossible now, since I've got so many, in so many different genres.

It sounds like you don't want any system, though, hobbs. We need a system because many people like to browse. I like to flip through a bunch of books before deciding which, if any, I want to check out. It is different when doing academic research, of course, but for everyday life, a search algorithm can't beat just poking around.
Yep. There have been days when I've been in the public library and decided to read something, rather than work on my own writing, so if I'm in the mood for science or art, I just go to the relevant sections and start browsing the shelves.

I ended up reading a really fascinating book about crows, by doing that.

It's generally better to remove obsolete systems to avoid confusion. I'm in favor of removing Imperial unit system too.
It would be nice if the U.S. would at least use celsius for their temperatures. When American members here talk about the weather and mention temperatures, I sometimes have no idea what they're actually experiencing. It's been 45 years since I started using metric for weather, and find it so much easier to understand.

On one hand I am a follower of the Russian philosophy of "If it works, don't change it"

But on the other I know absolutely nothing about the Dewey decimal system. I guess probably mainly because I haven't set foot in a library in forever. So I really have no idea if it's good or bad or if it works well. I prefer to have my fiction sorted by the author's last name, and then either chronologically or by title or a combination of both. My non-fiction collection is small enough for me to not need a system for it
Which systems did your schools use in Poland and Germany? If you attended any pre-college/university schools in Canada, your school would very likely have used the Dewey system.

In distribution/mail/internet order companies product is put on a random shelf and that identified location is linked to the item in the computer system. When an item is needed, you just query it and the system tells you where it is at the moment. In a library, books could be shelved anywhere and when you want to find it, you just query the system and it tells you where to go. Of course, browsing the shelves would be more difficult if one were focused on a topic.
No. Just. NO.

I can just see the senior citizens and new immigrants trying to figure that out here (as in it would result in mass confusion). The main library here has 4 floors. The basement is a combination of small art gallery/meeting rooms/special events room. The main floor has a small coffee & lunch place, it's where books are signed out, and there's a small room where they sell donated books, music, and DVDs. The children's library is also on the main floor (and it uses the Dewey system for the nonfiction books).

The second floor is where the fiction books are kept, and they're sorted by genre and author's last name.

The third floor has offices, meeting rooms, and a place for teens to hang out.

The fourth floor is where I prefer to be when I go there - get my lunch downstairs, and take it up to the quiet area in the reference section (we're allowed to eat there as long as we clean up after ourselves). That's where the computers are, it's where the reference books and newspapers are, the magazines, atlases, and has a great view of City Hall Park. And if I want to read one of their books instead of my own, all I need to do is look it up in the card catalogue (online; I'm old enough to remember when the card catalogue was a collection of little cards in a set of drawers), write down the Dewey numbers, go to the section of the library where those books are, and there's the book.

No running around from floor to floor is necessary, and if a book is on one floor on one day, that's where it will always be shelved, unless they decide to switch things around (can't see that happening for less than reasons of maintenance/renovation).


Here's a tip for anyone who has a lot of books and someone offers to help you sort them: Explain to them the difference between fiction and nonfiction (I seriously had to do that with a couple of social workers who presumably went to college to get their degrees). Explain the difference between authors and editors. Explain that not all the yellow-spined books go together, because that yellow spine just means they all had the same publisher and they're really supposed to be separated by author/series (whichever may apply).

That said, I've had to make compromises. Some of my books are where they are just because that's where they physically fit. Or if it's a heavy book, it goes on a shelf that can support it. When I moved in here, my helper just put books anywhere, so I've got a lot of hardcovers to move from the lighter metal shelves to the more sturdy wooden shelves, and several hundred fanzines, comics, magazines, and pattern books to sort.
 
But as I posted above what happens when one of the library users put the books back at random.
A smart system would identify the item on that shelf and adjust its position in the system. Library check out systems do that now. You put the book on the checkout pad and it identifies the book and links it to your card for check out. Smart shelves are needed.

A.) Items at those companies aren't actually placed on a random shelf, right? that would be absurd.
B.) I think you'd be hard pressed to either fund such a program at a library or to demonstrate that such a program would be more efficient for librarians and users.
In the commercial world the most bought/used items get space close to the packing areas to save picker and travel time, but once you get to the less needed items, random placement will work just fine.

Funding is one problem and would probably require a benefactor to implement it. Over time it would save money with reduced labor time needed to shelve books in specific places. A pilot program would be pretty easy to set up. Training borrowers and library staff would be a bigger problem, but I think that everyone would grow to love such an arrangement. Our human need for orderliness and control will be disrupted and will need to be replaced by trust in a computer to know where things are. The same needs to happen with driverless cars. A telephone like app linked to the library system will quickly direct patrons and librarians to all the locations of a specific title so one can go the closest. GPS mapping? Use a mini map like those that are used in games to show where you are and where the book is, along with the path to get there.

They would be placed on the first available shelf that could take the packet that the forklift came too with exceptions such as fire risk, high value, small items etc
Exactly.

So they aren't random?
No, but in a library they could be for general release books.

Issues: Browsing by author or topic gets difficult and best done through a computer. Patrons might have to do a lot of walking (actually a good thing).
 
Why does everyone keep picking on poor Dewey?
latest
 
Part of the problem is that Dewey is a numbering system.
The Dewey Decimal Classification organizes library materials by discipline or field of study. Main divisions include philosophy, social sciences, science, technology, and history. The scheme is made up of ten classes, each divided into ten divisions, each having ten sections. The system's notation uses Arabic numbers, with three whole numbers making up the main classes and sub-classes and decimals creating further divisions. The classification structure is hierarchical and the notation follows the same hierarchy. Libraries not needing the full level of detail of the classification can trim right-most decimal digits from the class number to obtain a more general classification.[40] For example:

500 Natural sciences and mathematics
510 Mathematics
516 Geometry
516.3 Analytic geometries
516.37 Metric differential geometries
516.375 Finsler geometry
The classification was originally enumerative, meaning that it listed all of the classes explicitly in the schedules. Over time it added some aspects of a faceted classification scheme, allowing classifiers to construct a number by combining a class number for a topic with an entry from a separate table. Tables cover commonly used elements such as geographical and temporal aspects, language, and bibliographic forms. For example, a class number could be constructed using 330 for economics +&nbps;.9 for geographic treatment + .04 for Europe to create the class 330.94 European economy. Or one could combine the class 973 for United States + .05 for periodical publications on the topic to arrive at the number 973.05 for periodicals concerning the United States generally. The classification also makes use of mnemonics in some areas, such that the number 5 represents the country Italy in classification numbers like 945 (history of Italy), 450 (Italian language), 195 (Italian philosophy). The combination of faceting and mnemonics makes the classification synthetic in nature, with meaning built into parts of the classification number.[41]

The Dewey Decimal Classification has a number for all subjects, including fiction, although many libraries create a separate fiction section shelved by alphabetical order of the author's surname. Each assigned number consists of two parts: a class number (from the Dewey system) and a book number, which "prevents confusion of different books on the same subject." [7] A common form of the book number is called a Cutter number, which represents the author and distinguishes the book from other books on the same topic.[42]

Classes
  • 000 – Computer science, information & general works
  • 100 – Philosophy and psychology
  • 200 – Religion
  • 300 – Social sciences
  • 400 – Language
  • 500 – Pure Science
  • 600 – Technology
  • 700 – Arts & recreation
  • 800 – Literature
  • 900 – History & geography
New topics, authors, groups all require more numbers to the right of the decimal. Moving away from unique numbers to unique locations is much simpler. Dewey classification numbers could be used for sorting and grouping during a look up/search, but removed from location. Given the huge volume of new knowledge we are developing every year, we will need to separate information searches from location searches. As we move forward actual books will diminish in use and everything will go digital. Searching for a book will deliver it to you immediately. Those of us who enjoy holding the paper products will die off.
 
In the commercial world the most bought/used items get space close to the packing areas to save picker and travel time, but once you get to the less needed items, random placement will work just fine.
That only works for people who don't actually shop in person. Right now I couldn't care less where my grocery store puts stuff because I haven't shopped there in person for over 3 years. I order my stuff over the phone, one of the clerks picks the order, they phone me if/when something is sold out so I can decide what to do about it, and then the manager delivers it either that day or the next, depending on how many orders he has. So I don't need to know where anything is.

But back when I did do my own in-person shopping, random placement of things from time to time just drives me nuts. For in-person shopping, unless I'm taking a leisurely stroll through a bookstore, game store, or craft store and expect to spend a couple of hours there, I want to be in and out ASAP. I don't want to have to wonder where something is when I can't find it where it was the last time.

Training borrowers and library staff would be a bigger problem, but I think that everyone would grow to love such an arrangement. Our human need for orderliness and control will be disrupted and will need to be replaced by trust in a computer to know where things are.
Trust in computers is what led to the Butlerian Jihad. I prefer not to give myself any more excuse to allow my memory to get lazy. What will people do when the computer isn't working? This is an exercise in promoting illiteracy.

GPS mapping? Use a mini map like those that are used in games to show where you are and where the book is, along with the path to get there.
Oh, for crying out loud. Use a GPS map in a library to tell me how to get to the books I want to use? Is the library supposed to spend $$$$$ to supply these to the patrons, or are all patrons supposed to buy smartphones to use this?

No. I look them up in the card catalogue, write down the numbers, and go find them myself. It's not hard if you know how to count to 10 and know how to read. The online catalogue says if the book is available, and if it's not on the shelf, that's what the librarians are for - to tell me if it's just delayed being returned to the shelf or if it's one of the "staff suggests" books on display. There are signs all over that we're not supposed to reshelve books, but that's because most people don't actually care if they put it back in the right place. I put them back, though, since I do know how to do it correctly.

That sounds confusing, but I suppose the problem is that there are too many categories.. or something? Why not just stick all the books on Forestry Statistics on one shelf and order them by author though?
Not all forestry statistics books are only about forestry statistics, and depending on what kind of library you're in and who the patrons are, there would be either too many for one shelf, or not enough.

It's simple enough to just stick the correct Dewey label on them, shelve them, and they're available for whoever wants to read them.

Part of the problem is that Dewey is a numbering system.
So?

New topics, authors, groups all require more numbers to the right of the decimal. Moving away from unique numbers to unique locations is much simpler. Dewey classification numbers could be used for sorting and grouping during a look up/search, but removed from location. Given the huge volume of new knowledge we are developing every year, we will need to separate information searches from location searches. As we move forward actual books will diminish in use and everything will go digital. Searching for a book will deliver it to you immediately. Those of us who enjoy holding the paper products will die off.
And when the electricity goes out, the world will be screwed.

Right now, all I need to enjoy a book is to take one off my shelf, open it, and read it. As long as I have a light source, I'm good to go. And there's a great light source up in the sky that's free. Mind you it doesn't work for that many hours a day this time of year at my latitude, but that's okay. I get sunlight for some part of the day, and it's not going to run out of energy for a lot longer than I'll be alive.

If I want to read a book at the library, I just look it up in the card catalogue. If it's available (as in not signed out), I know exactly where to look for it, and can find it within minutes.

Relying solely on an online library is a recipe for censorship, as well. Don't want anyone to read 1984? Just delete it. If people don't have it saved elsewhere or have a hard copy, they won't be able to read it anymore.

Computers are useful tools, but they must never become the bosses or the keepers of our memories and knowledge of how to do things. They're only as good as their programming, and if the programming is off, either by human error or human malevolence, I'd hate to see the people who can't cope with that.
 
But that is the fault of the software, not the system.
Agreed, but the software is tied to the system and it's terrible. I guess my thought process is that if we could force the libraries to ditch dewey decimal, that would likely force them to ditch their very specialized software systems and adopt something better based on modern search programs.

But you are correct, my hatred is directed at the software and not as much the system itself. Even still, what function does the system really serve anymore? As noted, many private libraries use their own systems. Just alphabetize the books (or categorize and alphabetize within the categories) and be done with it.
 
That only works for people who don't actually shop in person. Right now I couldn't care less where my grocery store puts stuff because I haven't shopped there in person for over 3 years. I order my stuff over the phone, one of the clerks picks the order, they phone me if/when something is sold out so I can decide what to do about it, and then the manager delivers it either that day or the next, depending on how many orders he has. So I don't need to know where anything is.

But back when I did do my own in-person shopping, random placement of things from time to time just drives me nuts. For in-person shopping, unless I'm taking a leisurely stroll through a bookstore, game store, or craft store and expect to spend a couple of hours there, I want to be in and out ASAP. I don't want to have to wonder where something is when I can't find it where it was the last time.


Trust in computers is what led to the Butlerian Jihad. I prefer not to give myself any more excuse to allow my memory to get lazy. What will people do when the computer isn't working? This is an exercise in promoting illiteracy.


Oh, for crying out loud. Use a GPS map in a library to tell me how to get to the books I want to use? Is the library supposed to spend $$$$$ to supply these to the patrons, or are all patrons supposed to buy smartphones to use this?

No. I look them up in the card catalogue, write down the numbers, and go find them myself. It's not hard if you know how to count to 10 and know how to read. The online catalogue says if the book is available, and if it's not on the shelf, that's what the librarians are for - to tell me if it's just delayed being returned to the shelf or if it's one of the "staff suggests" books on display. There are signs all over that we're not supposed to reshelve books, but that's because most people don't actually care if they put it back in the right place. I put them back, though, since I do know how to do it correctly.

Shopping in person encompasses a variety of experiences depending upon the store and the products. We are talking about libraries not grocery stores. Like you I use the library. Finding the book you want is not anything like choosing apples or sliced turkey from bins or shelves. Don't pretend that they are. Library shelves are just a storage place where a book can sit untouched for years and prices and quality don't change.

Your personal shopping quirks are irrelevant. We are talking about finding books in a library. You want to get in and out quickly you say. The system I'm talking about would enable that. You would find your book in the catalog (just like you do now) and it would give you the shelf address. You then would walk to that shelf and get your book.No change for you. Big improvements for the library.

Butlerian Jihad? Fictional backstory references is a lousy source for anything. They are just made up to support more fiction. You should stick to real events. Luddites? Again your personal efforts to retain memory skills is irrelevant. You can do those things anyway.

So?

And when the electricity goes out, the world will be screwed.

Right now, all I need to enjoy a book is to take one off my shelf, open it, and read it. As long as I have a light source, I'm good to go. And there's a great light source up in the sky that's free. Mind you it doesn't work for that many hours a day this time of year at my latitude, but that's okay. I get sunlight for some part of the day, and it's not going to run out of energy for a lot longer than I'll be alive.

If I want to read a book at the library, I just look it up in the card catalogue. If it's available (as in not signed out), I know exactly where to look for it, and can find it within minutes.

Relying solely on an online library is a recipe for censorship, as well. Don't want anyone to read 1984? Just delete it. If people don't have it saved elsewhere or have a hard copy, they won't be able to read it anymore.

Computers are useful tools, but they must never become the bosses or the keepers of our memories and knowledge of how to do things. They're only as good as their programming, and if the programming is off, either by human error or human malevolence, I'd hate to see the people who can't cope with that.
So? Well, new material requires new numbers; numbers that are often between other numbers that often require more and more diligence in keeping things orderly and in order. Smart shelving to track location eliminates all of this nostalgic nonsense. You inquire about a book and the system tells you exactly were it is. The fact that it has a Dewey number of 936.5671 doesn't matter.

Power failures are a completely different problem altogether. More than the failure of a library book tracking system is at stake. The Dewey system is not related to that. Without power your local library will be closed anyway.

You get to keep you personal library in any order you want. So what?

If you want to read a book at the library...nothing changes. You look it up, locate it and go get it within minutes.

Censorship? Sure books can be deleted from a system. They can now. Your library has an electronic catalog right? Those dedicated to removing books can do so most easily by taking a book off the shelf and dropping it in the trash. Poof! its gone.

Computers already control our lives. Maybe not yours if you are using XP, but you are a dying breed (figuratively); you can struggle along in your own fashion, but that is not going to stop what is coming. Are you opposed to driverless cars? Planes flying on auto pilot? Do you use a credit card? Shop through the internet? Narrow AI is already here. Your reluctance to participate is a personal decision.
 
If I am only going to the library to find one specific book, a new system might be better. If I am just browsing for something new to read, the 'random spot' system sounds terrible. Browsing through a list of books on a screen just isn't the same as browsing through real books I can see, touch and read a couple pages of.

As to the distribution center comparison:

In a food warehouse, there are temperature concerns to keep in mind, so products are categorized that way. If the pallets aren't being shipped out as full pallets, like they came in as (100 cases on a pallet, and a typical store/customer orders 1 or 10 of those cases) those pallets will need to taken from the storage spot (on the upper levels of the racking) and put on the ground into a 'pick slot' where someone will pick those pallets apart to fill the customer/store order. It makes sense to store the full pallets close to where the pick slots are, and not 3 football fields-length away. So the products are again categorized so that the products are close to where they would go, whether it's categorized by type of food (water, cereal, canned food, etc.) or by size of the box (easier stacking), it's still categories. Once you get a pallet limited to a category, then yes, finally an ideal system does select the next available open spot (closest to where the pick slot is).

Putting high quantity items near the packaging area doesn't really matter, someone has to take it from the receiving dock to where ever it is going anyway (going from A to B and B to C is still the same distance as A to C, though I guess this really depends on where A and C are and the exact setup of the warehouse. If A is on the north side of the building and C is on the south, it doesn't make sense to put all the high quantity stuff way off to the east or west, but in the middle somewhere.)
 
That sounds confusing, but I suppose the problem is that there are too many categories.. or something? Why not just stick all the books on Forestry Statistics on one shelf and order them by author though?
Exactly! Dewey made sense before you had the means to digital record, sort, recall and file information. It's pointless now. There are better ways to do this.
If I am only going to the library to find one specific book, a new system might be better. If I am just browsing for something new to read, the 'random spot' system sounds terrible. Browsing through a list of books on a screen just isn't the same as browsing through real books I can see, touch and read a couple pages of.

As to the distribution center comparison:

In a food warehouse, there are temperature concerns to keep in mind, so products are categorized that way. If the pallets aren't being shipped out as full pallets, like they came in as (100 cases on a pallet, and a typical store/customer orders 1 or 10 of those cases) those pallets will need to taken from the storage spot (on the upper levels of the racking) and put on the ground into a 'pick slot' where someone will pick those pallets apart to fill the customer/store order. It makes sense to store the full pallets close to where the pick slots are, and not 3 football fields-length away. So the products are again categorized so that the products are close to where they would go, whether it's categorized by type of food (water, cereal, canned food, etc.) or by size of the box (easier stacking), it's still categories. Once you get a pallet limited to a category, then yes, finally an ideal system does select the next available open spot (closest to where the pick slot is).

Putting high quantity items near the packaging area doesn't really matter, someone has to take it from the receiving dock to where ever it is going anyway (going from A to B and B to C is still the same distance as A to C, though I guess this really depends on where A and C are and the exact setup of the warehouse. If A is on the north side of the building and C is on the south, it doesn't make sense to put all the high quantity stuff way off to the east or west, but in the middle somewhere.)
I guess it's a good thing then that sorting books doesn't require as many considerations as storing spoil-able foodstuffs. Really, there are a million ways to physical store books that are rational and easier for people to browse that aren't tied to Dewey. Secondhand bookstores I've been too almost always store them by subject and then alphabetize within the subjects either by author or book title (usually author).
 
What a rude post, Birdjaguar. :huh: Re-read your sig. One of the ways I would interpret "Be kind" is "don't be rude."

Shopping in person encompasses a variety of experiences depending upon the store and the products. We are talking about libraries not grocery stores. Like you I use the library. Finding the book you want is not anything like choosing apples or sliced turkey from bins or shelves. Don't pretend that they are. Library shelves are just a storage place where a book can sit untouched for years and prices and quality don't change.
You're the one who used the analogy of commercial spaces, along with the terms "packing" and "picker." Neither term is used in libraries, but both are used for commercial space and when an employee picks an order for a customer.

Unless using the reserve system, I've never asked a librarian to fetch a book for me. I can do that myself.

Your personal shopping quirks are irrelevant. We are talking about finding books in a library. You want to get in and out quickly you say. The system I'm talking about would enable that. You would find your book in the catalog (just like you do now) and it would give you the shelf address. You then would walk to that shelf and get your book.No change for you. Big improvements for the library.
1. It's a good thing that you went into management, rather than clerking. That attitude would lose customers for you. My shopping preferences are not "quirks" and everyone's shopping preferences are relevant when it comes to what the customer wants and what the store (or library) is willing to provide. The library I use is well-organized and I know where to go to find things. Interaction with the librarians is minimal, as there's not much I need help with.

2. I want in and out ASAP when I'm doing normal shopping. It's a totally different thing for libraries. I don't actually borrow books from the library. I go there to read books, to work on my writing projects, to relax with a word puzzle book, attend a public meeting or election forum, or to take advantage of the adult coloring program they have. Sometimes all I want is to check out their book sales or to have a bowl of soup for lunch. Most times when I go there, I spend 2-3 hours at least.

And when I want to find a book, I expect it to be where the Dewey system says it is - on the fourth floor, in the relevant section, on the relevant shelf. I don't want to have to go different places on different days.

There's a reason for that that I haven't mentioned yet, although it should have clicked for people who know I'm mobility challenged. If the elevator is out of order or busy, I don't have the option to use the stairs. Most of what I want in that building is either on the 2nd floor (fiction) or 4th floor (non-fiction). Accessibility matters, and I am NOT going to ask a librarian to run and fetch for me any more than I absolutely have to.

Butlerian Jihad? Fictional backstory references is a lousy source for anything. They are just made up to support more fiction. You should stick to real events. Luddites? Again your personal efforts to retain memory skills is irrelevant. You can do those things anyway.
Quote the part of my post where I used the term "luddites."

Oh, wait. You're the one who used it, presumably to turn your nose up at people who choose not to turn their lives over to computers. Since you've at least heard of the term "Butlerian Jihad", do I need to spell out what Frank Herbert meant by it? You might be content to let a machine to your remembering for you and hold your hand with every little everyday thing, but I'm not.

So? Well, new material requires new numbers; numbers that are often between other numbers that often require more and more diligence in keeping things orderly and in order. Smart shelving to track location eliminates all of this nostalgic nonsense. You inquire about a book and the system tells you exactly were it is. The fact that it has a Dewey number of 936.5671 doesn't matter.
If I wanted a book with that exact Dewey number (and the library had it), I would be able to find it with no problem.

You get to keep you personal library in any order you want. So what?
So after working in a library, I got so used to the Dewey system that it just makes sense to me. It feels disorganized to have my nonfiction books on shelves according to where and how they fit. It's functional for the circumstances, but not how I'd do it if I had proper shelf space.

If you want to read a book at the library...nothing changes. You look it up, locate it and go get it within minutes.
The thing is, I shouldn't have to look it up to figure out which floor it's on. If it's available, it should be where it's always been.

Censorship? Sure books can be deleted from a system. They can now. Your library has an electronic catalog right? Those dedicated to removing books can do so most easily by taking a book off the shelf and dropping it in the trash. Poof! its gone.
And of course no other library has it, and all the copies in the world would disappear at that point as well?

Nope. The loss of one book from one library is usually not something that means there are no more copies of that book anywhere.

Funny thing about censorship. An MLA here tried to have the book Of Mice and Men banned back in the '90s. Seems someone complained about all the swearing in it. So next thing you know, there wasn't a copy of that book to be found anywhere in this riding. The library's copies were all reserved for months, the bookstores were sold out (even the second-hand bookstores), and this was pre-Amazon. Everyone wanted to read the book to see what all the fuss was about, so they either had to wait months for the library copies or weeks to order a copy.

If there's a book I want, I buy it. If I don't want to own it, I'll go to the library and read their copy, but in most cases I prefer my own physical copy, so that what happens to it is up to me. If all digital records of that book are deleted, I've still got my hard copy.

Computers already control our lives. Maybe not yours if you are using XP, but you are a dying breed (figuratively); you can struggle along in your own fashion, but that is not going to stop what is coming. Are you opposed to driverless cars? Planes flying on auto pilot? Do you use a credit card? Shop through the internet? Narrow AI is already here. Your reluctance to participate is a personal decision.
:rolleyes:

I bought a refurbished XP so I could continue to play Civ II and my older computer games. When the Windows 8.1 ran into trouble, I was able to get by with the XP. Now it's in trouble, so I'm using Windows 10. When I upgrade, it's because of necessity, not because I want the latest gadget. I suppose you're going to insult me because I don't own a cell phone or smart phone, or whatever the current terminology is. My landline has worked well for years, and I'll consider an upgrade when it dies.

Driverless cars? It would be handy, since I don't drive, provided they're disabled-accessible. But until they're 100% foolproof in all Alberta weather and road conditions, every day of the year, you won't get me into one.

Planes are a moot point since I don't fly. My financial arrangements are not your concern; do I ask you about your own financial arrangements? No, because it's none of my business.

Yes, I shop online. That's another way I get some of my groceries; just put in an order to Walmart yesterday. I'm nearly out of cat milk and hopefully the order comes sooner rather than later, since Maddy will definitely let me know of her displeasure once the last remaining box is gone.
 
I think libraries should sort books by color. It'd be much prettier that way.
Somebody actually did sort my books that way. All the yellow-spined books were put together, which meant I had to spend several hours sorting them out again, into the proper genres, authors, editors, and order within the series. I had to explain that different publishers often had a common way for the covers to look, and that most of my yellow-spined books had been published by DAW. This company published both science fiction and fantasy, novels, and anthologies. I also had to explain that some authors' books were published by different companies, which is why some series have both yellow spines and other colors.

So yeah, it's pretty... pretty useless for finding anything.
 
I think libraries should sort books by color. It'd be much prettier that way.
I heartily endorse this product and/or service.
But I'd like entire rooms for individual authors...

Graham Greene
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Jorges Luis Borges

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Ayn Rand

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