DI3 (Im back O_o) - Wonderless is Wonderful

[barbslinger]

I'm thinking we need a warrior heading south like I stated in an earlier post. That warrior heading north was fine to find out there is nice land there, but contacts are critical. I've had a few beers too any right now and will look at the save tomorrow. It's Gotm29 time and I'm nearly done.

 

[microbe]

The south is blocked by France (if there is anything there). Unfortunately we don't have Embassy (Writing!) to establish RoP, so that warrior returned home. We can send it to west (through b/t Korea and France) and then turn south.

The curraghs are going to be very important in making contacts..

 

[barbslinger]

Looks like settlers, archers and money. That's what we need out of the gate right after a couple workers. Without workers where would a dynasty be?
I'll play tomorrow. Korea looks like the be-atch

 

[DisruptiveIdiot]

Dont fret guys, even if they have writing we can go for literature, we cant build the GL but the comp doesnt research lit fast; it's great to trade around. Also we should get philosophy once we reach tech parity and hope we get a free tech so we're ahead by two techs!

 

[microbe]

Originally posted by DisruptiveIdiot
Dont fret guys, even if they have writing we can go for literature, we cant build the GL but the comp doesnt research lit fast; it's great to trade around. Also we should get philosophy once we reach tech parity and hope we get a free tech so we're ahead by two techs!

Agree with Lit, but our chance of getting Philosophy first is almost zero.

 

[barbslinger]

DI – Changing the Satsuma curragh build to worker to help hook up ivory and other tasks in the future. I had an epiphany realizing all this time I’ve loved looking at units that were 4000 years old I’ve probably had workers that were older. We can get IW for 217g from France. I’d prefer she be my trading partner besides Korea but I’m hoping to meet someone within a few turns and lower the price. We’re not building any swords anyway so we can wait. We are weak to both but that will show that this early if they have 2-3 units more than us. Kyoto to archer for growth and Osaka to settler to allow an extra pop. It would take some work to turn Osaka into a settler factory, i.e. more workers. French warrior can, if he desires, step into Satsuma in 2 turns.

IT – Frenchie goes SE looking things over. If it was me I would take the city.

[1] 1475 – Wishing the current curagh was going CCW because our warrior will see the lands it is heading for.

IT – Gems come online and our 1st barb horse appears SE of Kyoto.

[2] 1450 – Decide to swap Tokyo production from Curagh to barracks. I can’t see spending 1gpt for a unit that, looking at the map will take 25 or so turns to get CCW to ‘perhaps’ another civ. We will be plenty busy with the civs in our neighborhood before then. Vets will help.

IT- Kyoto – Archer > archer. We may need him with the barb horsie ready to pillage us.

[3] 1425 - We have a vet archer now after killing the barb. I’m mining Osaka with the 2 workers. BTW, the southern warrior has found nothing but a ton of nice lands. Osaka up to 4 pop and no turf to work. Settler due next turn and I’m contemplating sending him EAST of Kyoto to get some production NOW.

IT – Joan wants 31g. I tell her what I will be doing to her in the future and she turns away blushing, but she decides against war. Whew, close one, but I think she likes me.
Osaka – Settler > warrior for MP

[4] 1400 – Nothing

IT – Nada

[5] 1375 - Still no sight of other civs.

IT – We get writing but I don’t think we have ay chance of getting Phil. Set to lit. We will get trade value for that and hopefully the, hold on wait a minute, no GL. Can we build it and then destroy our city because those people are bad? J/k. Embassie with Seoul shows 1 pop, no resources(yea!) and building the oracle in 79. They have 2 spears. Smells ripe!

IT – Kyoto – Archer > Brax in 3 now. Tokyo – Brax > Temple
[6] 1350 – Irrigation in Tokyo finishes. More irrigation ordered. Just realized I don’t know how many turns to play. Going to web. 20 turns coming up. Is that forever? War will actually be hell!

IT – Wang offers Myst for 150g. I told his emissary come back when another century.

[7] 1325 – Southern warior spots a goody hut but I have to double back. Switch Osaka to archer since we have brax.

IT – Korea has a city N of the lake. Boy are they going to get it!!!

[8] 1300 – We learn HBR from a hut. Woo-hoo. Better than the bad haircut the warrior expected when he walked into town. I goofed not upping the research to 100% when had the chance earlier. We’re there now at –6gpt with lit in 16. New city coming soon. I decided on early production to the east.

IT – Kyoto –Brax > Settler.

[9] 1275 MM Osaka for the 4 shields required for archer next turn. Mines are done in Osaka and Kyoto gets the next lovin’ of workers.

IT - Osaka – Archer > archer

[10] 1250 – Southern warrior is getting bored looking for another civ.

[11] – 1225 Settler ready to plant next turn. Kyoto ready to riot. 10% lux.

IT – Nada

[12] 1200- We find Isabella. Joanie will be jealous. The AI’s want 220g for IW now?? Up from the 217 on turn 1. Izzy is annoyed. She’ll change her mind soon. Back to 0% with archer MP.

IT – Joanie asks our curragh to vacate the waters in tours to satisfy the press. I stay another hour and then jump on the ship and sail south after hearing about this Issabella chick.

[13] 1175 – Mining Bg in Kyoto. Heading settler North. Temple in Tokyo finishes next turn. I was going to pop rush a few turns ago but we need growth bad.

IT – Tokyo – Temple > worker. Aztecs complete the Oracle.

[14] 1150 – Southern warrior hits a deadend in Spain territory. I’m going through. We are falling further behind on tech. Lit will catch us up at least 3 techs.

IT – Osaka – Archer > worker
[15] 1125 – Getting ready to cross Izzy territory.

IT – Kyoto – Archer > Settler

[16] 1100 – Kyoto mine finishes and were roading, also looking to hook up ivory now. Swap Satsuma to temple to be pop rushed.

IT – Osaka – Worker > archer. Tokyo – Worker> Archer.

[17] 1075 – We continue across Izzy’s border. Settler heading north is a tugh call but I’m thinking fish.

IT – Nada

[18] 1050 - Step our southern scout right at the doorstep of Madrid. I think I’ll get kicked out now. Barb horse S of Kyoto 4 tiles away.

IT – Barbs trying to make an impression.

[19] 1025 – We get the boot from Izzy but it’s on the other side of her country. That scout knew how to work Izzy. Pop-rush Satsuma temple at 19 shields left.

IT – Barbs getting frisky. Kyoto – Settler > Archer. I think I may have screwed up on the MM because we are down to 2 pop. Satsuma – Temple > Brax. Madrd completes te Collosus in Madrid after my visit with Izzy.

[20] Kill two barbs with one promo to elite in Kyoto. NW of Satsuma we are threatened now with 2 barb horsies. I’m pulling settler warrior pair back to meet with archer.

Notes: - I might pull the settler group back. I have a feeling there is a barb camp further north due to the horses. Lit will pull techs from the others and since we are wonderless trade at a premium price. Hopefully to parity. :fingers crossed: Our land and logistics look crappy but it will clean up after the first Korean war. Archers moving in. Get 6 and jump on him. Good luck!
>> THE SAVE <<

 

[barbslinger]

I'm thinking something along these lines.

 

[microbe]

[2] 1450 ¨C Decide to swap Tokyo production from Curagh to barracks. We will be plenty busy with the civs in our neighborhood before then. Vets will help.

I strongly disagree with this.

In my post I made it very clear that those curraghs are important in making contacts. We need them to catch up.

I can¡¯t see spending 1gpt for a unit that, looking at the map will take 25 or so turns to get CCW to ¡®perhaps¡¯ another civ.

We cannot trade communications until Printing Press. Contacts won't come to you by itself. We have, what, one warrior exploring? That's not enough. And soon it will have RoP issues, which curraghs don't have (AI cannot force you to leave).

Plus, are we over our unit support limit yet? Why are you so worried about 1gpt for it? If later we have exceeded our limit (which I doubt in despotism) and the curragh has fullfilled its commission, you can always send it to the ocean to let it sink - unlike warriors, you would have to pay its 1gpt until it returns home, which may be never (unless you sign RoP with everybody along the way).

Sorry for the harsh words, but I am really disappointed at your decision. Those curraghs (and galleys later) are cheap long-term investment and if anyone of them makes a new contact it pays off big. In my recent demigod game I get 8 techs and a bunch of gold out of NOTHING just because I have more contacts than anyone else.

I also don't agree with building so many archers. We need defense first.

 

[barbslinger]

However, we have bigger problems facing us right now. With our slow expansion we are soon to be out of land and facing a Korean force that will bring it. We have to get some cities and become dominant in the Northern half of our map. Right now they have relatively low defense in all cities except Seoul. If we can strike them and get 2 cities perhaps 3 we can turn this around and then get tech for peace. In a Demigod game I started last night I had the same problem with the Iro's. I knew I had to get to them prior to them getting MW's. They had 12 cities to my 5. I did have iron and 2 swords but the primary attack force were archers taking out 2 spears in each city. I captured 4 cities got tech and cities. Next war took them down to 2 cities with help.
Though I strongly want more contacts too I thnk the pressing matter of Korean expansion has to be addressed NOW. If we can get Joanie in on the second war we should be able to take the upper half and with a leader get our palace near the lake.
I'm afraid if we lay back and expand to where, cities N of new Korean cities, and hope that we can geet contact we may get those cities taken from us defense or no defense.

 

[DisruptiveIdiot]

I agree, we need to kill the Koreans fast or we will fall. We need to expand FAST. Plus we have relatively crappy land as of now with the jungle in 3 of our cities. Plus Korea has damn nice land

 

[barbslinger]

I for get how many archers we have to attack with but it will be a tough call on trading lit to Korea for tech. See what is available and try to get to a tech that will expose higher level techs. IW ould be nice to see iron situation. Hoping for Tokyo/Satsuma iron :fingers crossed: We may need 20 turns to set up enough archers, and perhaps swords, for attacks to be guaranteed success.
I think this is the best plan, but of course, it is up to next leader.

 

[Yom]

I see it, but I have a big exam tomorrow, so I won't get it to tomorrow. I think we need to settle our cities fast and get out some quick curraghs before we go to war. I agree that we need to get ready for Korea soon, but I doubt they'll spontaneously attack us that quickly. I've had much less military and not gotten attacked before. We may want to raze and resettle the Korean cities, depending on their placement, what do you guys think?

Edit: I don't see any iron on any of those mountains in the picture. Do we have Iron Working yet? If not, that should be a priority, just to see where to settle, if not for swordsmen for our war.

 

[gozpel]

Hey, by looking at the map Korea seem to have aound 10 cities! We can't be that optimistic we can take on the BIG dog with archers?

The other civs has known IW for a long time by now and probably hooked up their sources as well. So archers will be met by swordsmen and horses, not exactly a great scenario.

France seem to be fairly weak compared to Korea and they sit on OUR horses. We will need horses sooner or later and I would prefer getting them first.

We attack France (Paris)with a decent stack of archers and then sit tight or maybe take/destroy another town or two, so we can demand some techs for peace.

And how do we go about this? We have that settler near Kyoto, he can found a city where the korean warriors stands SW of Osaka and we move every available archer into that city. 10-12 archers will take Paris and we grab those horses.

 

[barbslinger]

Couple things to consider if going after weaker France instead.

1) Sacking Paris or keeping it gives us a city that will be hard to defend and not part of our future core. Doing this leads our future into trying to develop a core in the jungle/marsh.

2) Paris WILL be defended with more than 2 spears. Koreas outer cities will not have muskets for a while. Seoul will and other cities may if they have a stategic resource.

3) If we take paris suing for peace will not give us many concessions unless we can threaten/take other cities. The logistics are much more cumbersome.

4) It does not stop the Korean expansion into nice lands.

5) It does not give us expansion into the nice lands.

Signing France up against Korea and then going defense with archers for a few turns while Joanie attacks will pull Wangs forces to the south. I really would rather have the Korean lands and take France out later.

 

[DisruptiveIdiot]

Originally posted by gozpel
Hey, by looking at the map Korea seem to have aound 10 cities! We can't be that optimistic we can take on the BIG dog with archers?

The other civs has known IW for a long time by now and probably hooked up their sources as well. So archers will be met by swordsmen and horses, not exactly a great scenario.

France seem to be fairly weak compared to Korea and they sit on OUR horses. We will need horses sooner or later and I would prefer getting them first.

We attack France (Paris)with a decent stack of archers and then sit tight or maybe take/destroy another town or two, so we can demand some techs for peace.

And how do we go about this? We have that settler near Kyoto, he can found a city where the korean warriors stands SW of Osaka and we move every available archer into that city. 10-12 archers will take Paris and we grab those horses.

Dont worry, I took on a big dog (400+ units) in a modern war where he had mech infantry and all I had was TOWs. It can be done... we could use catapults! Catapults, spearmen, and archers are superior to swordsmen.

 

[barbslinger]

I'm saying 6 archers but I don't think they will all be used and they can regroup for another assault. In my recent demigod game I was facing 2 3hp spears in outer cities and was winning with 4 archers. If we take some cats along for the ride it could be even better. After the lit trade for IW and others it may change our minds though and all this prior discussion could be moot points.
We'll all have to rely on Yom's take of Iron locations as to which way to proceed. Either way I am up for war to get land back and preferrably the lake area.

 

[DisruptiveIdiot]

Also remember, if we place our units strategically swordsmen wont hurt us. A spear on a hill has a pretty even chance of fending off. Notice how there are plenty of mountains next to Korean cities It's a safe war, especially if we can drag france into it. This is great terrain to use fortifications as well, AI avoids them so we can "funnel" them into unfavorable positions where they're out in the open. Since we lack the power of wonders we're going to have to push our capabilities to the max.

 

[barbslinger]

Originally posted by DisruptiveIdiot
Also remember, if we place our units strategically swordsmen wont hurt us. A spear on a hill has a pretty even chance of fending off. Notice how there are plenty of mountains next to Korean cities It's a safe war, especially if we can drag france into it. This is great terrain to use fortifications as well, AI avoids them so we can "funnel" them into unfavorable positions where they're out in the open. Since we lack the power of wonders we're going to have to push our capabilities to the max.

Absolutely. Thats why my battle plans go through the mountains, hills and forest.

 

[gozpel]

And we raze korean cities? I can't see any cities which will keep a pop enough to keep anyways, except the capital. Other cities will whip extra spears and autoraze.

If your idea is to attack and raze, then I follow your plan. Then we need a fair bunch of spears and cat's, together with the archers. The idea of dragging France against Korea is good in Tolkien scenarios I bet They are 5-6 techs ahead of us and a couple of hundred gold won't make Joan wet her panties of excitement.

I fear we will have France against us too, just because Korea is leading the pack. But I won't say "I told you so..." later on. I'm for what the team decides and if it is Korea, then we focus on that task. *mutters something about Samurais without horses...*

 

[gozpel]

Point taken. I should shut up like everyone else?

Fine!

I do that.

Right now.

Did you hear me?

I shut up!

Ok.

Then.