Diplo for D'nut

[gmaharriet]

Sorry for the double post, but here's a link to the SIGNED treaty, complete with pic of the tech tree, and Military Tradition is circled as an agreed upon tech.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3752226&postcount=201

 

[Whomp]

I don't think there's an issue giving it to Donut.
It's more Donut exchanging it for Mag with MIA.

 

[gmaharriet]

Well, article 2.3 says:

2.3 Technologies that are researched during this period may be exchanged with another nation as long as both parties consent to this. Any technology gained in return would be shared by both parties.

We don't have to give our consent, do we?

 

[Whomp]

It turns out MIA is researching MT now. Killercane told Fe to take a flying leap when Fe told them they'd sell it to Donut for a pile of gold and some such. They'd like a permanent peace. You all ready for a space race?

Here's the conversation with Killercane.

Spoiler :

jb1964 says:
hey, i'm getting the hang of the IM stuff
Whomp says:
hehe
Whomp says:
Hi Casey
jb1964 says:
well, casey, I'm just a thread reader and occasional participant in KISS
casey j says:
how ya doin berns
jb1964 says:
These other fellows, and harriet, are the experts
Whomp says:
Good
Whomp says:
JB's been a great edition
Whomp says:
addition
Whomp says:
edition too
jb1964 says:
Mucho thanks
jb1964 says:
The way I see it is that MIA's reached a near critical mass, they're pissed that we've been swapping techs, and KISS and Nutters had better find a way of countering that or we can write this one off pretty quick.
jb1964 says:
Which is fine by me because then SGoTM10 might get moving agian
jb1964 says:


Whomp says:
Ha
Whomp says:
What the heck happened to the cats and dogs?
jb1964 says:
they're freaking sleeping
casey j says:
MIA wants MT and gold for MT anyways, screw em
jb1964 says:
then again SW is dodging hezbola rockets
Whomp says:
are they researching MT?
jb1964 says:
So, are the going to give you Physics?
jb1964 says:
Seems they're holding out on that one
casey j says:
we already have it
casey j says:
one turn from ToG
Whomp says:
ok
jb1964 says:
Kewl, didn't know
casey j says:
if i dont accrue some more gold
Whomp says:
how should we proceed with these guys?
casey j says:
we cant attack until turn 177
Whomp says:
i'm wondering what they got from their IA tech
casey j says:
if they are still researching MT then get after them asap
casey j says:
i saw that magnetism was still 2040 beakers
Whomp says:
weird cuz bede said the workers had suspenders
casey j says:
are they going industrial this turn, is that how the turn system works?
jb1964 says:
that doesn't seem right
casey j says:
it might just put the suspenders on and then wait until next turn
casey j says:
weird pbem stuff i take it
Whomp says:
dunno
Whomp says:
they're all hot and bothered
jb1964 says:
what do you use to check on tech values?
Whomp says:
civassist 2
casey j says:
ha what did they say
Whomp says:
that they played honorably
casey j says:
i told feau to stick the MT tradition up their ass today since they were *****ing at me
casey j says:
lol
jb1964 says:
Whomp, have we passed along a treaty offer to the big nuts?
Whomp says:
that's what they're saying
Whomp says:
we did
Whomp says:
I want to be fair on the land Case
jb1964 says:
so do you think it will be KISS and DNuts in the end or will MIA sink us both?
Whomp says:
Does that line make sense?
casey j says:
yeah diagonally from nw to se right
Whomp says:
MIA can't sink us if we're together
casey j says:
i think the land deal is good to go
Whomp says:
ok cool
Whomp says:
should i get someone to make it look official?
Whomp says:
Tubby's good at that junk
casey j says:
i want to work out some tech specifics though
casey j says:
robi is on that
Whomp says:
IA techs?
casey j says:
yeah
Whomp says:
ok cool
casey j says:
of course nobody has professed any desire towards whatever so i will make some executive decisions
Whomp says:

Whomp says:
TOE?
casey j says:
yeah toe is a possibility but i dont know if MIA wont get there first with a proper prebuild
Whomp says:
aren't they going for Newts?
casey j says:
they should have it any time yeah
Whomp says:
that makes things interesting
casey j says:
do you have a prebuild for toe or are you waiting for factories
Whomp says:
We haven't started any
casey j says:
us neither
Whomp says:
We're working on getting cavs up with Leos
casey j says:
thats why i think if they plan they could get it
casey j says:
but it wont matter when we smack em
Whomp says:


Whomp says:
are you going to load cavs in the army?
casey j says:
yeah we havent received mt yet
Whomp says:
we'll send it this turn
casey j says:
have about 1500 gold
casey j says:
so we should make short work of TNT
casey j says:
what do you think about permanent peace as part of the treaty
Whomp says:
how do you want to end it?
Whomp says:
space?
jb1964 says:
Casey, how do you see the turns up to 177
casey j says:
yeah
Whomp says:
I think we'd go for that
casey j says:
we get MT tradition-161
casey j says:
eliminate TNT by turn 163
casey j says:
you shuffle your troops back home
casey j says:
MIA wars with you around turn 170 if not sooner
Whomp says:
unless they declare
casey j says:
unless you have to give them a 5 turn heads up or something
Whomp says:
i'd like to know if they have boats looming out there
Whomp says:
no heads up
Whomp says:
peace ends
casey j says:
in deep ocean?
Whomp says:
i'm wondering
jb1964 says:
Do you have to give MIA a ten turn heads up for the end of your treaty?
Whomp says:
caravels?
casey j says:
they have a caravel off our west coast, im sure it has settlers in it
Whomp says:
ok
casey j says:
jb- i dont remember
casey j says:
i can check
Whomp says:
We're 50 turns. that's it. period. fin.
jb1964 says:
well, nutters and kiss should find a way to agree to a long term agreement that ends w/ MIA gone and us on even footing
jb1964 says:
but I'm just a pleeb
Whomp says:
i would have no problem ending with space
Whomp says:
once MIA is gone then we part ways techwise?
casey j says:
yep
Whomp says:
ok i think we'd like that
Whomp says:
no nukes
Whomp says:
JB you like space?
jb1964 says:
Big Star Trek fan. Ya, it's kewl
jb1964 says:
So how are you to deal w/ MIA now that they have their panties in a wad?
casey j says:
we are just going to cut them off
jb1964 says:
that pretty much settles it
casey j says:
no techs and take a hard stance which i kind of already have done
jb1964 says:
they very much want both us and them to stop dealing you anything
jb1964 says:
but that would pretty much leave both of us dead
casey j says:
yep
casey j says:
they are very annoying
jb1964 says:
so I think KISS has to turn a blind eye
casey j says:
sending "URGENT" pms and whatnot about our settlers going wherever, ridiculous
jb1964 says:
Well, they do seem to be coming across w/ a certain amount of righteous indignation
jb1964 says:
I tried to come up w/ a joke here but I'm drawing a blank.
casey j says:
robi is drafting a treaty right now i think so you should have something soon
Whomp says:
From my perspective they lost all respect from me when they chose TNT to be their partner
Whomp says:
ok cool
jb1964 says:
ppfpfttfppt
Whomp says:
That double scientific free tech was nice
Whomp says:
but very short sighted
jb1964 says:
Well, whomper, I would tell Bede to cool his jets until we hammer things out w/ the Big Nuts.
Whomp says:
i'm shocked they haven't done it again
Whomp says:
Simon wants nothing to do with them either
Whomp says:
that cracks me up
casey j says:
yeah i dont know why not
Whomp says:
he's pissed at them
casey j says:
i dont know how they have pissed everyone off but they have, pretty funny
Whomp says:
hehe
casey j says:
ha
casey j says:
well i have to run gents
jb1964 says:
g'day
casey j says:
but i will talk to ya soon
Whomp says:
You got it
casey j says:
see ya jb/bernie

casey j has left the conversation.

 

[Tubby Rower]

another war. good thing WW doesn't transfer from one civ to another

 

[CommandoBob]

Let me see if I understand this:

1. Our current agreement will cover the destruction of TNT and so is not part of the extension (war has already been declared and we both are at war with TNT).
   
2. The extension guarentees mutual protection/aggression when either one of the Quick is at war with MIA.
   
3. We have a permanent peace with Team Doughnut, even after MIA is KIA.
   
4. We have a space race.
   
5. We have a space race without Gandhi.

Point #1 I am sort of fuzzy on, but to me it is not that critical. We have already reached an understanding with Team Doughnut on the fate of TNT and the division of the spoils.
Points #2, 3 and 4 seem to be pretty straightforward from reading the previous spoiler and the link to the Simpsons Protocols.
Point #5 is just gravy.

Sounds good to me.

'Let lose the Idiots of War!'

 

[Bede]

So if read this right MilTrad goes to Homer on the next turn. What do we get in return?

The consensus seems to be the Nana is ours regardless of who captures it and that the line of demarcation runs just to the south of the unexpanded Nana border. If that is the case then I will proceed to shell the whoop out the Nana next turn.

Will killer offer us a small loan (gift?) of some of that cash hoard they are holding? It won't help with TNT but will do us some good at home.

 

[Whomp]

So if read this right MilTrad goes to Homer on the next turn. What do we get in return?

The consensus seems to be the Nana is ours regardless of who captures it and that the line of demarcation runs just to the south of the unexpanded Nana border. If that is the case then I will proceed to shell the whoop out the Nana next turn.

Will killer offer us a small loan (gift?) of some of that cash hoard they are holding? It won't help with TNT but will do us some good at home.

They will research mag. I think it would be reasonable to ask them for some gold. I'd like to see what they've actually researched this age. It can't be much.

 

[Bede]

Draft of a PM to killercasey. Needs to be sent soon as the save is in as of 10:56PM

I may put my foot in it here as I am not the diplomat that Whomper is, so I will apologize in advance if my plain speaking treads on any toes

I will be more than happy to ship MilTrad to Simpsons on T160 and start the reduction of the TNT defenses but we need an understanding on at least three points before I do.

1) Military Tradition is not shipped to MIA

2) Dancing Banana will be part of the KISS Republic either through direct capture, or as a gift from Simpsons in part compensation for Military Tradition should your forces deliver the final blow.

3) Also as part compensation for Military Tradition Simpsons will pay KISS the sum of 750 gold pieces.

It is clear that MIA (the Dead) are heading into direct conflict with the KISS and Simpsons (the Quick). Since KISS will bear the brunt of their aggression It would be a boon to us all if Simpsons can support KISS in getting ready for it, as of course KISS will do whatever we can to aid your team in that conflict

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Send it!(10)

 

[Bede]

Done and done (13)

 

[Daghdha]

casey j says:
eliminate TNT by turn 163
casey j says:
you shuffle your troops back home

Space w D'nuts has for some time been my favourite so that's cool. Permanent peace should of course be included. The thing that bothers me w the quote is that if we drain Battle Island of troops and Nutters fill our continent with offensive units (fighting MIA), then they will later be in a position where they can break our treaty and win by domination in about a NY sec. I would leave a reasonable defensive force over there, just in case...

 

[Tubby Rower]

they won't be able to get domination as that will require a good portion of MIA land and ALL of their continent to get there. But I agree that defensive troops should remain over there as some protection

 

[jb1964]

Space w D'nuts has for some time been my favourite so that's cool. Permanent peace should of course be included.

Nutters offered, maybe suggested is a better word, a "Your continent, my continent until Space do we part" treaty a short time ago but the removal of an option to "take a police action" didn't seem to interest everyone.

Heck, if we really want a Space race then I think the treaty is simple. If we want to retain the option to pillage and plunder then everyone needs to watch their own butts.

BTW, from last nights chat and what I gleened from previous posts it does seem evident that the Nutters broke their treaty w/ MIA. Is there a higher power that MIA can drag The Nuts in front of and demand justice? And frankly, if there is then I think we should encourage this action. It's likely to release D'Nut from the non-agression pact in short order. Of not.

 

[Bede]

Bede's Exchange of Missives with Homer

'cane,

I may put my foot in it here as I am not the diplomat that Whomper is, so I will apologize in advance if my plain speaking treads on any toes

I will be more than happy to ship MilTrad to Simpsons on T160 and start the reduction of the TNT defenses but we need an understanding on at least three points before I do.

1) Military Tradition is not shipped to MIA

2) Dancing Banana will be part of the KISS Republic either through direct capture, or as a gift from Simpsons in part compensation for Military Tradition should your forces deliver the final blow.

3) Also as part compensation for Military Tradition Simpsons will pay KISS the sum of 750 gold pieces.

It is clear that MIA (the Dead) are heading into direct conflict with the KISS and Simpsons (the Quick). Since KISS will bear the brunt of their aggression It would be a boon to us all if Simpsons can support KISS in getting ready for it, as of course KISS will do whatever we can to aid your team in that conflict

The boys of MIA were way too efficient at getting the save turned around. I won't get to it until tomorrow night, though, and will await your response to play on.

1). Originally you guys were cool with that, and I understand your concern. No MT to MIA, no problem.

2). Fine by me and the team as far as I can tell. DB is yours; eventually we would like to exchange the MIA cities on your continent that we take for your cities on our continent.

3). Not going to happen. That is in violation of our Simpsons Protocols (you're already on the hook for MT). If you need upgrade money then ask me, and we can work something out. We have about 1500 gold right now, and I need to get the cavs up and running. If MIA attacks you on turn 166 then by all means we will supply you with gold and silks and whatnot.

Two out of three ain't bad

Thanks and bombs away!!! Cavalry to the rescue!

 

[Tubby Rower]

3). Not going to happen. That is in violation of our Simpsons Protocols (you're already on the hook for MT). If you need upgrade money then ask me, and we can work something out. We have about 1500 gold right now, and I need to get the cavs up and running. If MIA attacks you on turn 166 then by all means we will supply you with gold and silks and whatnot.

Well the Simpsons protocol also state that equal research will take place which I KNOW hasn't happened.

 

[Whomp]

Well the Simpsons protocol also state that equal research will take place which I KNOW hasn't happened.

I think we need to express that. We gifted them into the age and did all of the research on the bottom half including chem. They received some techs on the top half from MIA. We've been pretty generous not calling them out on this.

 

[grahamiam]

They gave us Theology, Edu, Astro

We gave them Invention, Guns, Chems, Metal

Who got Fued, Eng, Mono? What's going to happen with Physics, Mag, ToG, Banking?

edit: to me, it doesn't matter if one researches the tech or weezles it away from MIA, seems the same to me.

 

[Bede]

Agree with g-man on the weezling.

@Whomp - killer is using our recent contacts to try and involve me directly in the tech wheeler dealering. I don't feel qualified to bring much of anything useful to that table. I have expressed that to him and suggested that 'You are DA MAN' in that area. You may want to reinforce that with another of your incomparable IM chats.

 

[Kickbooti]

I agree with G and Bede on the 'weezle.' The treaty is like hotdogs, if you're happy with the end product don't ask how it is made.

I don't know that I would press too hard on research problems at this point. We need a Military/Embargo treaty against MIA. I think that we can out research them in the Space venue, if that is the way it goes.

Although, a modern age war would be fun... How would REAL peoeple use nukes?