Diplomacy

[sirdanilot]

Don't worry, there'll soon be 4 again!

It was a nice game, y'all. I'm surprised by how good a power Germany is and I'll probably play it more often in my future diplomacy games.

I'll send my order for my unit, and with that I'll be out of this game. If I am dislodged my retreat will be off the board and if I have to send in a disband it'll be the only unit I have left.

 

[peter grimes]

Order received

 

[dl123654]

I'm sorry I can't agree with that.

I miss read and thought we on a different time. My orders were a little more then 2 hours late and they were not processed. When back a few years ago people were days late and the game was delayed and still processed correctly. My orders were sent before the game was updated. I'm sorry but if we are going to change the rules mid game I don't think I will be continueing, there were times during this game where if we had these rules I could have greatly benefited.

 

[peter grimes]

Players:

I have determined that d123654l's assertion is correct: His orders were indeed submitted 2 hours late, but they were submitted before I started to process the orders. Had I gotten home two or three hours later, his orders would have been processed. But he nonetheless failed to submit his orders on time. This deadline was made clear in 2 separate posts. His orders were late, therefore invalid.

I have made my position regarding late orders very clear: Ask for an extension, or I will assign HOLD orders. I have also given more than one opportunity to discuss and debate this rule, but no one has posted a dissent.

If there is unanimous consent to reprocess Spring 1909 orders with dl123654's late orders considered, I will reprocess the orders. However, seeing as how I made every effort to inform the players of their responsibility to submit orders on time, I'm disinclined to agree to dl123654's demand that we revert to the earlier style of order processing: that is originally what caused this game to stall!

Unless there is unanimous consent to reverting the game to post-Winter Adjustments 1909, the game will proceed as outlined in THIS POST.

 

[Paul#42]

I'm torn.

We had a discussion on that and I was against a strict deadline but I also know that a sloppy processing kills much of the fun.

Otoh we are all involved in other projects and not always play this with the same attitude.

I slightly tend towards processing dl's late orders but I also appreciate your effort, Peter and don't want to spoil your business.

I'll make up my mind after the others weighted in...

 

[sirdanilot]

No, Dl should have posted a delay. Sorry, but these are the rules of the game Dl, and I think you should accept this. Besides, it did not completely mess up your position in the game, you can still win. If you would have lost 4 centers or something like that because of this, then I would be inclined for a readjudication, but this had such a minor impact on this game that I feel that we should stick to these rules.

Don't think I'm just trying to be mean or anything, but that's just my view on the matter. If everyone else thinks that the orders should be reprocessed, then I will change my opinion of course, but Paul was doubting aswell anyway. I don't want to be the one to ruin your game fun.

 

[Niklas]

Yes, definitely.

The game simply isn't as fun when some units are held for out-of-game reasons. Sure the game isn't fun when it is held up waiting for players either, but there's a balance to be found there. My opinion is that it is always preferable to have orders if there are orders to be had for all powers.

This doesn't mean I don't appreciate Peter's efforts to straighten up the game, and I wouldn't have agreed to him actively extending the deadline to wait for English orders if there weren't any. But now dl was lucky enough to get the orders in before the update started, and in that light I don't see any reason not to use them. That doesn't mean we can relax and be sloppy with our next orders, we can't hope to be as lucky, so I don't see any "risk" in accepting them either.

If his orders were submitted before he learnt about the moves the rest of us did, they should be accepted. That's my definite stance.

 

[donsig]

I'm torn as well. As I noted earlier, we are at a stage of the game where there really is no diplomacy going on. Two or three of you may need to communicate to coordinate movements but that shouldn't take long. This is merely a game of movements now and will continue to be so even after Austria and Russia finally break their alliance. I see no reason to need lots of time to decide on moves and send them in.
I am really not all that comfortable with the no extension request within 24 hours of the deadline and we don't have any sort of grace period. Then again England's orders would have been accepted late under certain circumstances. So we might as well accept England's orders.

 

[Paul#42]

Agree, this "no deadline extension in the last 24 hours" sounds like an error to me. Of course I sometimes know way before that I won't make the deadline - but the really urgent cases are those when you realize an hour before deadline that you can't start jdip during your meeting - An email or pm is much easier to send.

So I agree to process dl's orders - unless I loose territory that way...

edit: I'm pretty sure that in a good tradition dl and I bounce in denmark...

 

[sirdanilot]

Allright then, I'll agree to process dl's orders aswell, under the condition that nobody will get away with it as long as I am still Kaisar Sirdanilot of Germany!

 

[peter grimes]

Well, that makes it unanimous to process England's orders.

I guess it also makes sense to honor extension requests up to the deadline.

Am I also sensing support for a grace period?

I'll try to get the new map processed in a few hours once I get a break here at work

 

[peter grimes]

Movement for Spring, 1909

Spoiler Austria's moves :

A ven-pie
A bur-mar
A tyr s A ven-pie
A mun-bur
A boh-mun
A bul-gre
A gre-alb
F tri s F adr
F adr s F aeg-ion
A vie-bud

Spoiler England's moves :

Hol->Bel
Nth->Hol
Ska->Nth
Cly->Nao

Spoiler Germany's moves :

A ruhr - burgundy
a denmark - kie

Spoiler Italy's moves :

F MAO-Iri
F Bre-Eng
A Pie-Mar
A Rom-Ven
F Nap-Ion
F Ion-Adr
F Apu S F Ion-Adr

Spoiler Russia's moves :

A war -> sil
A swe Supports F bal -> den
A stp -> lvn
F nwy -> nth
A kie Supports F bal -> den
A fin -> nwy
F bar -> nwg
F bal -> den
F aeg -> ion
A con Holds

Results:


Austria:
Austria: F adr Supports F aeg > ion
Austria: A boh -> mun, Failed because Austria: A mun -> bur failed.
Austria: A bul -> gre
Austria: A bur -> mar, Bounced with pie (1 against 1).
Austria: A gre -> alb
Austria: A mun -> bur, Bounced with ruh (1 against 1).
Austria: F tri Supports F adr
Austria: A tyr Supports A ven -> pie
Austria: A ven -> pie
Austria: A vie -> bu

England
England: F cly -> nao
England: A hol -> bel
England: F nth -> hol
England: F nwg Holds
England: F ska -> nth Bounced with nwy (1 against 1).

Germany:
Germany: A den -> kie: Bounced with kie (1 against 1). Dislodged from bal (3 against 1): The Army in Denmark cannot retreat; unit destroyed.
Germany: A ruh -> bur: Bounced with mun (1 against 1).

Italy:
Italy: F apu Supports F ion -> adr
Italy: F bre -> eng
Italy: F ion -> adr: Bounced with adr (2 against 2). Dislodged from aeg (2 against 1).
Italy: F mao -> iri
Italy: F nap -> ion Failed.
Italy: A pie -> mar: Bounced with bur (1 against 1). Dislodged from ven (2 against 1).
Italy: A rom -> ven

Russia:
Russia: F aeg -> ion
Russia: F bal -> den
Russia: F bar -> nwg: Bounced with nwg (1 against 1). :Rolleye:
Russia: A con Holds
Russia: A fin -> nwy Failed because F nwy -> nth failed.
Russia: A kie Supports F bal -> den
Russia: F nwy -> nth: Bounced with ska (1 against 1).
Russia: A stp -> lvn
Russia: A swe Supports F bal -> den
Russia: A war -> sil


Deadline for Retreats:
Saturday, 24:00 GMT
Units to be retreated:
Italy:
A Piedmont: Can only retreat to Tus
F Ionian Sea: Can retreat to Tun or TyS

jDip File: emailed to the remaining 4 5! powers.

Deadline for Fall moves:
Monday, 24:00 GMT


Admin's Comment:
I'm really sorry about the deadline snafu last time. Sometimes it's easy to forget that I'm only here to help your game along.

So what sort of grace period should we use? 12 hours? 24? Also, please comment on the proposed holiady schedule, which would hold for approximately the next two weeks.


Considering that there are lots of holidays approaching, I propose a doubling of the usual deadlines: retreats and builds, which normally have 48 hours, would have 4 days. Movements would have 5 days, rather than the usual 3 days. After the calendar changes over to .08, we can revert to the usual pace. Of course, we could always move to a 'trigger' tempo: as soon as all orders are received, before the deadline, orders will be processed. Thoughts?

 

[donsig]

I/m not sure what the grace period should be. I was thinking something like a couple hours unless an extension was requested. I don't mind the trigger idea at all - I think it's good for this stage of the game. Also, holiday schedule is ok by me.

And thanks for your help peter grimes!

 

[Niklas]

Agree with donsig on all accounts.

I'm also somewhat amused at dl's obvious wish to place himself in a worse position than what he would have been in had the hold orders remained...

 

[dl123654]

I'm also somewhat amused at dl's obvious wish to place himself in a worse position than what he would have been in had the hold orders remained...

I realize that I'm was worse off with my orders going through but I didn't want that advantage, I moved and that should have stayed.

PS Sorry for getting a little mad back there but I needed to vent. I agree I don't want the game waiting for days either, what got me mad was the fact I got my orders in before the game was updated, I would have accepted the hold if the game was updated and my orders were not in yet.

The way I see it working the most fair is have a deadline, and peter can update the game anytime after that deadline. If you can get your orders in before he does they are still accepted. That moves that game but creates some slack on the people that are running late or can't do the time conversions .

 

[Niklas]

I realize that I'm was worse off with my orders going through but I didn't want that advantage, I moved and that should have stayed.

Good sport.

The way I see it working the most fair is have a deadline, and peter can update the game anytime after that deadline. If you can get your orders in before he does they are still accepted. That moves that game but creates some slack on the people that are running late or can't do the time conversions .

I also think this is the best way to do it. We don't need to formalize grace periods, at the risk of people starting to count on them. Better have the deadline as it stands, and accept all orders that arrive before the game is updated. If you send after the deadline you're at risk of missing out.

I also like the idea with trigger time, so... donsig, how about those retreats?

 

[donsig]

Sorry, wasn't paying attention. Wotanitis.

A Pie-Tus
F Ion-Tun

 

[sirdanilot]

Erm, allowing deadline extention requests up to the deadline is fine, and orders should be accepted untill the adjudication (or several minutes before that). Readjudications like these should never happen again.

 

[peter grimes]

I'll be processing the retreats in less than 8 hours.

 

[peter grimes]

Fall 1909 Movement:



There was support for extended deadlines with a trigger adjudication for the upcoming week or so. Plus, orders will be accepted up to the time I start the resolution of orders, unless an extension is requested.

Deadline for Fall orders Thursday, 24:00 GMT

Deadline for Fall adjustments: Monday 24:00 GMT

If this seems unreasonable, we can certainly adjust the schedule. Good Luck!