Diplomacy

[Mathew]

I suppose Germany has also only missed once and we have a new England. That being said this many NMRs severely reduces the quality of the game as it works best with 7 active players. Anyway, I just thought I'd open it for discussion but I'm happy to continue playing. It's a fun game regardless. I just get discouraged with an NMR every turn :\

 

[Bowsling]

Crap. Inactive thread, I was forgetting the build orders had been sent in.

May I ask, though, why I get no suggested moves yet there is an invading army (which would not exist had I not suggested that Germany not just put all units on hold last turn) that has now taken total control of Belgium with no hope of recovery?

 

[tycoonist]

NMR, deal with the consequences.

It may not be fair, but your NMR damages the whole game greatly. From now on, I would suggest everyone submit moves very early... you can always change them later, but at least it gives something to fall back on.

And Mathew, would you like me to send out a reminder PM on the day of the orders? Seems like a good idea, if it reminds one person.

 

[choxorn]

Crap. Inactive thread, I was forgetting the build orders had been sent in.

May I ask, though, why I get no suggested moves yet there is an invading army (which would not exist had I not suggested that Germany not just put all units on hold last turn) that has now taken total control of Belgium with no hope of recovery?

You wouldn't have been able to stop Germany from taking Belgium even if you had moved. You probably could have stopped him from entering Burgundy, though, and made several other moves to help.

This did put you at a disadvantage, yes. Not allowing England to block you from getting Belgium in the first place was also a disadvantage to him, or not allowing Germany to block me in Sweden, which is just a consequence of NMR.

 

[Bowsling]

Nonetheless, there was a chance that with certain moves, I would be able to recapture Belgium by my next turn. I did NMR, but still, it seems unfair that both my theoretical biggest rivals got to make suggested moves when they NMRed, yet I do not. All I want is consistency. That's why I thought Germany and England should receive suggested moves after England received them for Turn 1.

 

[Camikaze]

Well what would be some good generic moves that we could give you?

I'd be in favour of giving you some moves, but perhaps not an entire set.

 

[Backwards Logic]

Bias aside, I'm against any NMR moves at this point for anyone. I was under the impression the early NMR moves were given because of the presence of neutral supply centers. Them not moving means you could basically remove them from the game since they'd basically cease to be a factor and thus unbalance the game for everyone else. Now, what exactly are we accomplishing by allowing players to move after the fact? There's plenty of time for everyone to get their orders in. We're deep enough into the game that if you forget moves, oh well. Deal with the consequences, which I should point out are far less than than not moving on the first turn or two.

 

[Mathew]

For the record, Bowsling, I've been very consistent here. Some quotes from my previous posts dealing with NMRs:

hate to see someone NMR on the very first turn as it tends to be one of the more crucial turns in the game (getting the neutral SCs can be fairly important in the long term and it sets up the early game relationships).

but having three NMRs in the first two turns is absolutely awful. The first year is particularly important as the neutral SCs are up for grabs.

I really don't want this to be the solution for every NMR though. NMRs just have the most impact in the early game.

NMRs in the first turns are brutal because the neutral SCs can be very important to the outcome of the game.

The first year is rather vital and I didn't want to see any nation out of the game right from the start but we're in the second year now so that will no longer be allowed.

Please feel free to show me where I've been inconsistent.

Additionally, this NMR, while obviously has a negative effect on you, is not a game breaker as it very likely could have been for England/Germany. England especially had we given them no moves for the entire first year.

Finally, I've said countless times to submit a preliminary set of moves early so that you don't NMR and if you need to change them later, send in an updated set. The fact that no one has been doing this (I should say I have received moves early, just never any updates to changes), is a pretty good indicator of why we've had so many NMRs. It's not hard, it only takes a minute or two to write up a few moves and PM them or e-mail them to me.


As an example, I'm participating in two other Diplomacy games right now, and I'd say I submit no less than two move sets each turn and often times three or four. Granted I may have more free time than others for this sort of thing, I don't spend more than 15 minutes total per turn per game writing moves (actually writing diplomatic letters can be much greater than that, depending on what's happening and because I tend to be fairly active in my diplomatic discussions) and the deadlines are only 72 hours apart.

 

[Camikaze]

The inconsistency is coming from whether we actually give moves or not, I think.

I would support in this instance a few moves that are unopposed. So no move to Burgundy to block Germany. No move from Brest, perhaps. But how about Spain --> Gas and Portugal --> Mid-Atlantic? It seems fair to give him at least that (assuming Bowsling has no specific objections to those moves), due to that inconsistency.

 

[Backwards Logic]

If we give him those moves, where do we draw the line later if (when...) there's another NMR? How do we decide what's 'fair' in a future separate instance? I feel this opens a can of worms down the road and why I'm against partial moves.

 

[Camikaze]

Well, the can was probably opened when we allowed the English and German moves earlier.

I would think it fair to draw the line after a partial move in this instance. But meh, I'm fine with moves or no moves.

 

[Mathew]

There will be no moves. There is no inconsistency. I stated from the beginning that the first couple turns (i.e. the first year) were critical to the game due to the presence of neutral SCs. This is no longer the case and while NMRs certainly hurt they do not have the same effect. Additionally, as BL said, the line needs to be drawn and I believe this is where it should happen.

 

[Bowsling]

I did not want to insult you, Mathew! I appreciate what you've put into this game. But what I mean about consistency is that once one set of alternative moves has been used, it is (in my opinion) fair to use them for the rest of the game. That's the assumption I had made when the first one was made. But you are the moderator, and I am not.

Retreat the army in Belgium.

 

[Mathew]

Summer 1902 Results

France:

France: A bel -> pic

New map attached.

 

[Bowsling]

When are the next orders due?

 

[tycoonist]

When are the next orders due?

25th

 

[Camikaze]

Remember orders, everyone.

 

[Mathew]

Indeed, thanks for the reminder Camikaze

 

[Mathew]

Fall 1903 Results

General Notices:

All dislodged units destroyed; advancing to next phase.
Order resolution completed on 26-Jan-2011 at 08:14:04 EST

Order Results:

Austria:

Austria: A bud Holds
Austria: A gal Holds
Austria: F gre -> bul/sc
Austria: A ser Supports F gre -> bul/sc
Austria: A tri Holds

England:

England: F bar Supports A yor -> nwy
England: F eng -> mao
Bounced with por (1 against 1).
England: F nth Convoys A yor -> nwy
England: A yor -> nwy
Convoy path taken: yor->nth->nwy.

France:

No order for unit at Brest. Hold order assigned.
No order for unit at Picardy. Hold order assigned.
France: F bre Holds
France: A mar Supports A spa -> gas
France: A par -> bur
Failed because Germany: A bur -> gas failed.
France: A pic Holds
France: F por -> mao
Bounced with eng (1 against 1).
France: A spa -> gas

Germany:

Germany: A bel Supports A bur
Support failed. Move orders must be supported explicitly.
Germany: A bur -> gas
Bounced with spa (1 against 1).
Germany: F den -> swe
Bounced with swe (1 against 1).
Germany: A hol Supports A bel
Germany: A ruh Supports A bur
Support failed. Move orders must be supported explicitly.

Italy:

Italy: F aeg Supports F gre -> bul/sc
Italy: F ion Convoys A tun -> gre
Italy: A tun -> gre
Convoy path taken: tun→ion→gre.
Italy: A ven Holds

Russia:

Russia: A mos -> sev
Failed because Russia: A sev -> arm failed.
Russia: F rum Supports F gre -> bul/sc
Russia: A sev -> arm
Bounced with arm (1 against 1).
Russia: F stp/nc Supports F swe -> nwy
Russia: F swe -> nwy
Bounced with yor (2 against 1).
Russia: A ukr Supports F rum

Turkey:

The Army in Bulgaria cannot retreat; unit destroyed.

Turkey: A arm Holds
Turkey: F bla Supports A bul
Turkey: A bul Holds
Dislodged from gre (4 against 3).
Turkey: F con Supports A bul


Please see the attached map.

Build/Removal orders are due by January 27th @ 8:00 PM EST.


Austria: 5 supply centers, 5 units. No units to build or remove.
England: 4 supply centers, 4 units. No units to build or remove.
France: 5 supply centers, 6 units. 1 unit must be removed.
Germany: 6 supply centers, 5 units. 1 unit may be built.
Italy: 5 supply centers, 4 units. 1 unit may be built.
Russia: 6 supply centers, 6 units. No units to build or remove.
Turkey: 3 supply centers, 3 units. No units to build or remove.



Finally no NMRs

 

[choxorn]

Okay, What the heck? I changed my orders to make the Fleet in Sweden go to Norway and supported by the Fleet in StP, not the other way around. You saw my other change, why not that one?

England's Army should still be in England.