do different strands on Christianism differ on misogyny?

[Milan's Warrior]

I have question about differences within Christianism about misoginy.
I am familiar only with Catholicism which is extremely misonistic, and I wonder whether the same emphasis is also in the various protestant/ortodox confessions...
Catholicism teaches the following:
1. eve is the temptress of adam; yes whe was tempten in turn by the snake, but she was the fist to fall and she brought adam down with her. Different priests put accents in different places of the story, but they make it pretty clear that adam would not have given in were it not for eve
2. the virgin is indeed virgin. although the virgin is a woman and she is revered, her womanhood is mutilated because she went from virgin to mother without ever having sex. And (as far as we know) she never had sex even afterwards
3. priests can only be male
4. priests cannot marry; the fact that the wife would steal time from god is often mentioned as rationale

Please don't answer that catholicism is not misogynistic because I have already made up my mind about that. I only want to know where do the other branches of christianity stand.

EDIT: of course I knew this all along, but it came to my mind again now because of the other thread on the sexy teacher, but let's keep the threads separate

 

[CurtSibling]

Most religions have women as the underdogs, going so far as to preach certain dogma for that express purpose.

Obviously, it suits certain holy mindsets to have women as 'dirty' and lowly compared to men.

Such teachings are about 2000 years out of date.

Sadly, many women go along with the role.

 

[cgannon64]

Please don't answer that catholicism is not misogynistic because I have already made up my mind about that.

Ahh, OK then.

But I should let you know, the rationale behind priests being celibate has nothing to do with women in particular. It is true that they do not want a priest's marriage to distract from his vocation to God, but this is not because women are evil or anything like that - just because marriage is a distracting affair.

I won't dispute any of your other points, though, since you've told me not to.

 

[Zarn]

Actually, the reason they can't marry is out of date. The Church didn't want any sons inheriting the land where priests preached. Of course, that was never the official reason.

 

[cgannon64]

That still holds a bit today though. I remember passing a Protestant church in a town in Jersey that listed all of the ministers, back to the 19th century. Every single one was from the same family.

Obviously not a good thing.

 

[GenMarshall]

Ahh, OK then.

But I should let you know, the rationale behind priests being celibate has nothing to do with women in particular. It is true that they do not want a priest's marriage to distract from his vocation to God, but this is not because women are evil or anything like that - just because marriage is a distracting affair.

I won't dispute any of your other points, though, since you've told me not to.

Eventhough I am an uncaterized Catholic, I would agree to this.

Actually, the reason they can't marry is out of date. The Church didn't want any sons inheriting the land where priests preached. Of course, that was never the official reason.

What about the Byzantine (Eastern) rite? Though I am only more familar with the Latin (Western) rite. The only thing that I know about the Byzatine (Eastern) rite is that they are in communion with Rome (Western rite).

I only want to know where do the other branches of christianity stand.

Coptic Christians: Unsure, but would have women in subordate roles.
Orthodox Christians: Unsure, same as Coptic Christians
Anglicanism/Episcopal: All I know is that they ordane women as priests
Protestants: Possibly more freedom
Jehovah's Witnesses: Unknown
Mormon: Unknown

 

[Meleager]

1. eve is the temptress of adam; yes whe was tempten in turn by the snake, but she was the fist to fall and she brought adam down with her. Different priests put accents in different places of the story, but they make it pretty clear that adam would not have given in were it not for eve
2. the virgin is indeed virgin. although the virgin is a woman and she is revered, her womanhood is mutilated because she went from virgin to mother without ever having sex. And (as far as we know) she never had sex even afterwards
3. priests can only be male
4. priests cannot marry; the fact that the wife would steal time from god is often mentioned as rationale

The protestants believe:
1. yep, but we dont exactly empahise it. I have never heard anyone blame it on women
2. yep she was a virgin, but that didn't mutilate her womanhood. In fact it is recorded that she had other childen in the bible
3. no
4. no

Its quite possible for women to be in a "higher" position then men in the church. This holds true for most, if not all, protestant churches...

 

[GenMarshall]

The protestants believe:
1. yep, but we dont exactly empahise it. I have never heard anyone blame it on women
2. yep she was a virgin, but that didn't mutilate her womanhood. In fact it is recorded that she had other childen in the bible
3. no
4. no

Its quite possible for women to be in a "higher" position then men in the church. This holds true for most, if not all, protestant churches...

Would this be the same for Anglicanism/Episcopals?

 

[Meleager]

Would this be the same for Anglicanism/Episcopals?

I believe so, though i am not 100% sure

 

[Milan's Warrior]

The protestants believe:
yep she was a virgin, but that didn't mutilate her womanhood. In fact it is recorded that she had other childen in the bible

Really?
Whoa, that blew my mind. I never heard of this (and I did 8 years of catholic school, but then again they discouraged us from reading the bibile, they always told us to go to them personally to ask for advice).
I wonder whether that is true in the catholic version of the bible too

 

[Meleager]

Really?
Whoa, that blew my mind. I never heard of this (and I did 8 years of catholic school, but then again they discouraged us from reading the bibile, they always told us to go to them personally to ask for advice).
I wonder whether that is true in the catholic version of the bible too

The catholic bible adds to the "normal" bible but i dont think it takes anything away. It should still be in there.

I was quite suprised that they teach that her womanhood was mutilated.

EDIT: what type of people discourage you from reading the bible!!??

 

[cgannon64]

By the way, I've never heard of this theory that Mary's womanhood was "mutiliated", and I've gone to Catholic school all my life.

(Oh, and the parts in the Bible that some claim provide evidence that Jesus had brothers aren't very thorough evidence. The Hebrew word for 'brother' had different meanings back then, and extended to cousins.)

 

[classical_hero]

1. eve is the temptress of adam; yes whe was tempten in turn by the snake, but she was the fist to fall and she brought adam down with her. Different priests put accents in different places of the story, but they make it pretty clear that adam would not have given in were it not for eve
2. the virgin is indeed virgin. although the virgin is a woman and she is revered, her womanhood is mutilated because she went from virgin to mother without ever having sex. And (as far as we know) she never had sex even afterwards
3. priests can only be male
4. priests cannot marry; the fact that the wife would steal time from god is often mentioned as rationale

1. The Bible clearly states that Adam sinned as a result of disobedience, whereas Eve was beguiled to sin, so the Bible put more emphasis on the fact that Adam sinned, not on Eve's sin. Adam still would have sinned even if Eve did not give him the fruit. It was a result of disobedience of Adam, not Eve that caused man's down fall.

Romans 5:12-21 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

There is no mention of Eve once in this passage. It is all about Adam's disobedience. That is the emphasis of the Bible.
2. If you are talking about Mary, then she is not a virgin any more. If you read the Bible, you will see that Jesus had half brothers and sisters. It is nearly impossible for them to be from Joseph's previous marriage because it likely that they were married when they were still teenagers. Why are Catholics denying Mary the right to have sex? The Bible is clear that when she had Jesus, she was still a virgin, but we do not see her as a virgin after that.
3. This one is true acording to the Bible. You know that not all Catholics believe in this one. Here is what the Bible says.

1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Thi bit in bold is important to this issue. I remembering have a discussion with some cousins of mine about this issue and they wondered where I pulled this verse out from, because they believed that women could become pastors or preachers. The Bible clearly forbids this.
4. The Bible clearly allows pastors to marry. How can they be the husband of one wife if they are not married? The Bible says this about marriage.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

In the Bible there are many prominent Females. It is not hard to find them, if you just look.
BTW, I am a Baptist.

 

[anarres]

Yes gannon, I'm pretty sure the Catholic church's official line is that Mary had no other children. Certainly the Catholic line is that Thomas and James are not the brothers of Jesus - very convenient for much of your dogma, such as denying the Gospel of St Thomas...

Milan's Warrior - the reason Thomas doubted Jesus was because he was his brother. Thomas did not believe Jesus when he rose, and Jesus made him place his fingers in his stigmata to prove it was indeed him.

 

[stormbind]

My opinion is that CoE is probably the most liberal of organised churches.

 

[downtown]

well, lets see what I can add to this..

1) i never even really thought about this. my church (mormon), doesnt really refer to it as Adam messed up, or Eve corrupted Adam. I think Eve partook of the fruit first, but no emphasis is added to Eve. the important thing of the story is not that woman corrupted man or something, but that they both partook of the fruit and were expelled from the garden.

2) The virgin Mary was indeed virgin, but i have no idea what this mutilated womanhood thing is. I dont know about Mary having sex later, although im sure its possible.

3) Mormonism has a lay ministry. Both men and women hold leadership posistions in the church. The priesthood, which is something different however, is only given to males.

4) Its a lay ministry. My bishop back home is married and has 8 kids. Everybody has 2nd jobs and everything. I think we can pull that off because our wards (parishes?) are a lot smaller, so the bishop (priest) to regular guy ratio is pretty small, maybe 200:1.

 

[stormbind]

Really?
Whoa, that blew my mind. I never heard of this (and I did 8 years of catholic school, but then again they discouraged us from reading the bibile, they always told us to go to them personally to ask for advice).
I wonder whether that is true in the catholic version of the bible too

There's the thing: You went to Catholic school!

The biggest difference between Catholics and Protestants is that the former believe that followers must have the Bible interpreted and spoon-fed to them by Priests. Protestants believe the Bible text can be read & understood by anyone who is literate.

One of the more profound interpretations by Catholic priests is that only an official Priest can pray to God. This is why followers attend confession. Because the Bible says differently: Protestants pray directly to God in private, and have no need for confession.

 

[Warman17]

And (as far as we know) she never had sex even afterwards

Didn't Jesus have siblings? I doubt they were immaculate too.

 

[Taliesin]

My opinion is that CoE is probably the most liberal of organised churches.

Both United and Unitarian churches are more liberal than the Anglican. (I'm not sure if you have the United church in Britain, though.)

 

[Elrohir]

2. the virgin is indeed virgin. although the virgin is a woman and she is revered, her womanhood is mutilated because she went from virgin to mother without ever having sex. And (as far as we know) she never had sex even afterwards

Incorrect. Christians believe that she was a virgin before, but not afterwards. Mark 6:3:

"Where did this man get these things?" they asked. "What's this wisdom that has been given him, that he even does miracles! 3Isn't this the carpenter? Isn't this Mary's son and the brother of James, Joseph,[a] Judas and Simon? Aren't his sisters here with us?" And they took offense at him.

So we know that Jesus had at least four brothers and two sisters. Whoever said that Mary didn't have sex after Jesus was born lied or was seriously mistaken.