The Internet's 'Misogyny Problem' - real or imagined?

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Obsessively Opposed to the Typical
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The issue of Internet misogyny has received a great deal of attention in recent weeks, between the feminist website Jezebel battling rape GIFs repeatedly posted to their comments section and videogame critic Anita Sarkeesian having to leave her home after a series of Twitter threats that included her home address. There is a common assumption that the targets of such vile behavior are overwhelmingly women who are abused because they are women—to the point where “women aren’t welcome on the Internet,” as Amanda Hess argued in a widely discussed article in Pacific Standard magazine this year. Reviewing women’s online tribulations in the last month in The Daily Beast, Samantha Allen asks, “Will the Internet ever be safe for women?”

At the same time, there was little reaction to a report contradicting the narrative that male public figures get considerably less Twitter abuse than their female counterparts. While the study, conducted by the British think tank Demos, was limited to a fairly small sample of British celebrities, journalists and politicians whose Twitter timelines were tracked over a two-week period, its findings are nonetheless interesting. On the whole, 2.5 percent of the tweets sent to the men but fewer than 1 percent of those sent to women were classified as abusive. Male politicians fared especially badly, receiving more than six times as much abuse as female politicians. Also, about 40 percent of the abusive tweets to women were sent by other women.

Are women really singled out for abuse on the Internet—or is it more the case that Internet abuse of women, at least when committed by men, is singled out for special concern and opprobrium? Many feminists would argue that there are good reasons to treat it differently. Sexual slurs toward women evoke the threat of real-life sexual violence; they are also perceived as intended to “put a woman in her place” and tell her that her opinion is worthless because she is a woman. (A sexual slur toward a man is considered just a personal insult.) But the double standard also has overtones of traditional chivalry which views women as more delicate and deserving of consideration—while nastiness toward men is treated simply a part of the rough-and-tumble of public life, to be taken in stride and shrugged off.

A survey of Internet users conducted by the Pew Research Center last year found that 13 percent of female respondents and 11 percent of male respondents said they had been harassed or stalked online. (While Hess’s Pacific Standard article drew on that survey to note that “5 percent of women who used the Internet said ‘something happened online’ that led them into ‘physical danger,’” it made no mention of the fact that 3 percent of the men also reported such an experience.)

If women are unsafe or unwelcome on the Internet, it’s hardly borne out by the numbers.

Of course, none of this diminishes the deeply disturbing fact of female journalists, bloggers, and activists—Hess among them—who have been targets of threats to themselves or their families. But are men really immune from such attacks? One blogpost (civilly) critical of Sarkeesian and her supporters offers a fully sourced compilation of online comments wishing death, rape, mutilation and deadly diseases upon Jack Thompson, an activist critical of violent and sexual content in videogames—as well as death threats directed at male videogame developers who ran afoul of their fans.

One male victim of cyberstalking, British expatriate novelist James Lasdun, told his story in the 2013 memoir, Give Me Everything You Have: On Being Stalked. Lasdun’s stalker, a former creative-writing student whose romantic overtures he had rejected, not only barraged him with abusive messages but emailed his colleagues accusing him of stealing her work, preying on female students, and even setting her up to be raped; she posted similar slanders on websites including Amazon.com and Wikipedia. But an experience like Lasdun’s gets no political sympathy; indeed, the review in The New Yorker chided him for failing to admit his “crush” on the woman and his role in leading her on.

Often, in our commitment to free speech, we have been too willing to accept toxic behavior on the Internet. Just because abusive speech is protected by the First Amendment doesn’t mean that private websites should give it a platform. There is, too, a very real need for law enforcement to catch up with technology and offer meaningful solutions to cyberstalking and threats. However, the war on online abuse, particularly with the agenda of making the Internet safe for women, has its own perils.

There is the obvious danger of censoring legitimate speech. In Canada right now, a middle-aged designer named Gregory Elliott is on trial for criminal harassment for sending non-sexual, non-threatening, but argumentative unwelcome tweets to feminist activist Stephanie Guthrie. But there is also the danger of perpetuating women’s vulnerabilities in the name of protecting them. In her analysis of videogames, Sarkeesian has been particularly critical of damsel-in-distress stereotypes and casual “depictions of female victimhood.” Yet we bolster the same stereotypes when we focus on nasty things said to women while trivializing threats against men even though men are much more likely to be victims of violence by strangers.

TL;DR
  • men are in general abused as much or more than women online
  • making the internet "safe for women" is playing into the Damsel in Distress trope, as well as being potentially censorious
  • the media's misogyny narrative isn't borne out by the numbers

I would say that any unusual, hypocritical or controversial opinion on the net incites abusive behavior of its own, with no regard for gender in its inception. It is wrong to label this abuse as misogynistic, however - bullies will always pick a stick to beat you with that is most effective and most offensive to you. If you're a woman, that is what the stick will be. If you were gay, that’s what the stick would be. If you were black… And so on. Don’t confuse the choice of stick with the reason for wanting to beat you with it in the first place. Of course, this doesn't make abusive behavior acceptable. Take the Jezebel example given in the first few sentences - could it be concluded that posting rape gifs to a website primarily targeted at women is misogynist? Absolutely. But it could also be as simple as that content being the most offensive way possible to stick it to Jezebel, the most effective way to be abusive towards them. Of course, as I just said, this doesn't make the behavior acceptable. But it doesn't automatically mean that it's borne out of a hatred of women. Maybe it's out of a hatred of Jezebel - no, not for daring to host and publish the opinions of women, but for hosting and publishing opinions like 'women's sexuality is great and should be encouraged, men's sexuality is gross and creepy', among other objectionable, controversial content. Like posting the full embedded links, I'm sure it's not exactly safe for this forum to bring those jez links directly into the light - but they're there if you're willing to do a tiny little search. I'll remind you of the opening sentence of this paragraph: any controversial opinion brings abuse with it.

This contradicts the title, but really, I am not going to sit here and deny that online misogyny is a real thing – I think most of us here would agree it's real – but neither is it all that it's been made out to be. It has been exaggerated to the extreme, so much so that any attacks on women can be classified as misogynistic by some.



Finally, when dealing with this issue and the numbers, it should be kept in mind that it’s more socially acceptable for women to seek help when they are harassed.

source: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/04/men-are-harassed-more-than-women-online.html

source has plenty of great links embedded in the article that are worth checking out but some are illegal to post here directly with the one-click rule in place.
 
As you are probably aware. I agree entirely. Everyone gets abused online. A certain group is pleading especial victimhood which really doesn't stand up to scrutiny and using that to evade or silence criticism of the nonsense they spout.
 
i abuse a lot of people by ignoring them, i suppose.

As for the thread - in my days fathers had to teach kids how to fight in the streets, now they have to teach how to stand up for yourself in the internet. Same deal, different enviroment.
 
Are men primarily attacked on the basis of their gender? That is what i have to wonder, they maybe the victims of more attacks in general, but that might be due to there numbers, rather than any targeted sort of attack.
 
Are women? Please elaborate on what you mean by 'targeted attack'.
 
Imagined, mostly.

Something happens to a man, the man says 'what a jerk'.

Same thing happens to a woman, the woman says 'what a misogynist'.
 
Are men primarily attacked on the basis of their gender? That is what i have to wonder, they maybe the victims of more attacks in general, but that might be due to there numbers, rather than any targeted sort of attack.

This is worth investigating further.
 
Yeah well, you're a man. Man the frak up and take it like a man. Yes, I mean it.
 
Are men primarily attacked on the basis of their gender? That is what i have to wonder, they maybe the victims of more attacks in general, but that might be due to there numbers, rather than any targeted sort of attack.

That is an intersting question, but at the smae time, the reverse is also something worth asking. In this case of "internet misogyny", are women primarily attacked on the basis of their gender? Or do those doing the attacking simply use the insults they feel most likely to hurt their victims?
 
That is an intersting question, but at the smae time, the reverse is also something worth asking. In this case of "internet misogyny", are women primarily attacked on the basis of their gender? Or do those doing the attacking simply use the insults they feel most likely to hurt their victims?

Or is everyone doing the arguing using the insults most likely to shut down their opposition?
 
Gendered slurs and insults aren't just for women.

Neckbeard is pretty much male-specific, for one obvious example. Also, from the original article, women used gendered slurs just as much as men did in the original twitter study.
 
Gendered slurs and insults aren't just for women.

Neckbeard is pretty much male-specific, for one obvious example. Also, from the original article, women used gendered slurs just as much as men did in the original twitter study.

There may be some valid point about effectiveness though. If a black guy and a white guy are arguing only one of them has access to a word that is just about guaranteed to make the opponent lose their mind. If I'm arguing with a woman I can't think of any gender related word she could use that would really get my attention, but I have a word at my disposal that is extremely effective. Why anyone would allow the other side that opportunity is beyond my ken. The only way to disempower a slur is to ignore it, not go ape crazy every time it is used.
 
We talk about this a lot at work. The hate mail that my female journalist coworkers, ESPECIALLY those who work in more male dominated fields (sports, tech, games, auto) is SO MUCH WORSE, and so much more personal, than anything I, or my male peers, typically get.

Everybody gets yelled at on the internet, including me. But there are things that get said to my colleagues that just don't end up in our inboxes. I have to think there is a reason for it.
 
:eek:

This has got to be satire, but I don't get how you'd think it's in any way funny. Almost reads like that racist "you can't be racist against white people" nonsense.

This. I wish the OP luck, but I don't think he will get more than the usual barrage of useless posts followed with the "I''m not a misogynist, but" crowd.
 
We talk about this a lot at work. The hate mail that my female journalist coworkers, ESPECIALLY those who work in more male dominated fields (sports, tech, games, auto) is SO MUCH WORSE, and so much more personal, than anything I, or my male peers, typically get.

Everybody gets yelled at on the internet, including me. But there are things that get said to my colleagues that just don't end up in our inboxes. I have to think there is a reason for it.

Because it works.

Adults are no different than kids. Back in the schoolyard, if some kid stumbled on a 'magic word' that made you cry every time how many kids would avoid using it to spare your feelings, and how many would use it just to watch you cry?

The people spewing venom at you and the other male writers don't know how to get to you. If they did they would. They have a pretty good idea how to get to the female writers, so they do.
 
Yeah well, you're a man. Man the frak up and take it like a man. Yes, I mean it.

I'm sorry, but such a vile attitude is not welcome. Men can have real emotional problems too, anxiety issues, and other such problems.

Your hateful sexist attitude makes it harder for people like that to get through life and try to get better. It isn't helping anyone and you should feel ashamed of yourself for ignoring the problems of so many people with the wave of a hand.

downtown said:
We talk about this a lot at work. The hate mail that my female journalist coworkers, ESPECIALLY those who work in more male dominated fields (sports, tech, games, auto) is SO MUCH WORSE, and so much more personal, than anything I, or my male peers, typically get.

I'm not surprised, it can't be easy being a professional female in many male dominated fields.. What a shame we have so much sexism around us, and so many people ignoring it, even in some cases saying it's "okay".

Cheezy the Wiz said:
It should. Sexism and racism aren't personal opinions, they're social structures.

"It's impossible to be sexist against men"
"It's impossible to be racist against white people"
"It's impossible to be bigoted against Christians"
"It's impossible to be hateful towards Americans"

Where does this sort of insanity end? It's exclusive hateful nonsense that doesn't help anything in the slightest. All it does it is make people upset. You're making the problem worse by repeating such idiocy.
 
It should. Sexism and racism aren't personal opinions, they're social structures.
Spoken like a true Marxist.

I would say that sexism and racism are lazy thought modes, born from inability or disinterest in proper analysis.
 
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