Do extra science points carry over to the next tech?

[Jaichim]

Plain and simple, I usually will lower my research % when I reach 1 turn left to get the new tech. I can usually lower it 2-3 times and get extra cash while still completing in 1 turn. My question, is this the best practice or am I throwing out research points for my next tech? To the best of my knowledge, they don't appear to carry over. Does anyone know for sure?

Thanks,

J.

 

[Cam_H]

Yes it does carry over and therefore you're generally not making significant savings by yo-yo-ing.

 

[popejubal]

Cam H is correct. Research points do carry over after you complete a tech in Civ IV. They do not carry over to the next tech in Civ III, however.

That may be the source of the confusion.

 

[obsolete]

You DO realize it graphically tells you how much you have researched, and how much you will gain the current round research wise. Carry-over is ALWAYS shown.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Yes it is shown, but is it worth it?

I have the habbit of reducing the slider to get the gold back instead of carrying over the research. I might not be right but it seems to be more beneficial.

 

[cabert]

Yes it is shown, but is it worth it?

I have the habbit of reducing the slider to get the gold back instead of carrying over the research. I might not be right but it seems to be more beneficial.

it may or not be more beneficial.
I suggest reading zombi69's thread about MM about this.

The facts making it plain wrong in certain circumstances to reduce the slider in order to avoid the overflow :
- some techs have their own bonuses (like techs already known by other civs, or techs for which you have prereqs).
- this bonus is given in the form of FREE BEAKERS (you have 100 beakers, but the tech is researched at a rate of 120 beakers/turn)
- the overflow is carried over to the next tech, including the FREE BEAKERS.
- you may very well not have any bonuses for the next tech.

SO my suggestion for you guys ready to play yoyo with the slider is to do it only when you're researching monopoly techs for which you have no optionnal prereq. In fact you could do it the other way round by maximizing the overflow for some techs, like a tech that everyone knows for which you have all the prereqs.

 

[obsolete]

It would only be beneficial if there were a penalty for carry-over.

 

[popejubal]

- this bonus is given in the form of FREE BEAKERS (you have 100 beakers, but the tech is researched at a rate of 120 beakers/turn)
- the overflow is carried over to the next tech, including the FREE BEAKERS.
- you may very well not have any bonuses for the next tech.

I was under the impression that the bonus percentage was only given on that tech and any "overflow" beakers were given as raw beakers and the bonus was not calculated on the overflow.

...on the other hand, if you have a research bonus on the next tech, you will get the bomus multiplyer effect on those raw beakers, much the same way that overflow hammers are calculated. (i.e. you don't get your bonus twice).

 

[cabert]

I was under the impression that the bonus percentage was only given on that tech and any "overflow" beakers were given as raw beakers and the bonus was not calculated on the overflow.

...on the other hand, if you have a research bonus on the next tech, you will get the bomus multiplyer effect on those raw beakers, much the same way that overflow hammers are calculated. (i.e. you don't get your bonus twice).

It may have been corrected between vanilla and warlords. I know for sure in the early version of vanilla the free beakers were carried over.

 

[Rosie Bear]

Yes it is shown, but is it worth it?

I have the habbit of reducing the slider to get the gold back instead of carrying over the research. I might not be right but it seems to be more beneficial.

Being worth it or not is a question of: at the time you are down to one turn to go on research, do you need the gold coin (so change the slider), or do you need the lightbulbs to carry over (keep slider the same)?

I dont see how it can be more beneficial to not allow an overflow of bulbs as a gaming habit. All the slider does is translate the commerce points your whole empire is building in to either coins, lightbulbs (or later culture). Therefore, if you shift the slider towards more coins, what you gain in coins, you lose in bulbs. Thats not more, or less, beneficial.

Consider this: if you keep the slider the same, then each time you gain a tech and allow the overflow to go in to the next tech, you get that new tech a wee bit quicker. And so on and so on. You do not lose out in anyway. You wont get the coins rolling in as fast but that is a decision you make through out the game.

As I understand in CivIII you would lose out because overflow did not carry. Civ IV significantly differs here.

Adjusting the slider does not reduce or increase the commerce (golden coloured circles you get for working a square). Adjusting the slider does affect the gold coins you get to pay for your economy. 100 gold circles per turn, with the slider at 100% science, gets you nil gold coins and 100 bulbs. Changing the slider to 70% science, gets you 30 gold coins and 70 bulbs. All your gold circles are used and if only 30 bulbs are needed for the next tech, the tech after would have a head start with 40 bulbs. They are not wasted - they just arent coins unless you decide to change the slider.

Changing the slider at that critical point is not more or less beneficial therefore - change it if you need more coins, leave it if you need the bulbs. Both are useful depending on your circumstances.

 

[popejubal]

One thing that can be worthwhile under certain circumstances is to slow down your research and accumulate cash to allow yourself to push the research slider up to 100% at a later time and research with deficit spending.

I would not reccomend this most of the time, but if there are a bunch of AI civs who are about to research an expensive tech that you want to research and you don't care if they get it 5-10 tuns before you do, then you could save yourself a significant number of beakers by accumulating cash, allowing them to research it first and then researching it after they have it when you get a bonus for being one of the last Civs to discover the tech.

I'd say that this is only worthwhile in select cases when you have a very low research % on the slider because of expenses and there is an expensive tech that you know the AI will go for next and you can afford to not have that tech in the mean time.

Edit: You might also choose to push your slider all the way to one side or the other because of an economic change that is going to happen soon. If most of your science comes from the commerce of one super cottage city that will be finished Oxford in 5 turns, then go ahead and drop your research to 0 for 5 turns and build up a cash reserve so that you can run at 100% for a while once Oxford is complete. You can do the opposite if you have a commerce heavy city that is going to complete Wall Street in a few turns.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Reducing the slider helps you keep it in higher percentage when researching the next tech.
I believe without having calculated properly that for example if you save some gold by reducing on the last turn and that allows you run the tech at 60% instead of 50% the profit in beackers is bigger than the carry over from the last tech.

So it might be better to take the carry over at the beginning but after middle game to take the gold. I will have to check it properly at some point.

 

[obsolete]

You know, my last game I continued this evening (finished finally phew), I couldn't help but think of this thread. Lets say you've made the internet project. There are 2 big civs, and everyone else quite smaller. In any case, I turned tech spending to zero, and decided to ride the wave. However, one can not help but notice breakers still will be contributed from me. Part of this is from absorbed scientists, etc.

Now hold that thought. What if you wanted absolutely 0 science to be used, is it possible? I began wondering about the intricate issues; if a few little beakers from a great scientist or so was making the price of a tech for the certain smaller civilizations... even though it may be extremely minute to say the least.

 

[Indiansmoke]

I don't think it is possible to have 0 science at that stage of the game.

Anyway it is irrelevant to the carry over versus gold subject