Do not build the Temple of Artemis!

[Giaur]

This adventure began in my recent game. I had an Industrious leader, and built Oracle, Great Lighthouse, Colosus, Great Library and further Taj Mahal. Adopted pacifism after some time and great people started to appear. Two of my wonders were bound with Great Merchants and I was ready for that. So I started collecting Merchants, my favourite persons. At the moment, I discovered Liberalism and got Astronomy as a free tech, I sent my merchants away. Was seeking a city which would gave me greatest profit from Trade Mission. I discovered that coastal cities are more profitable. So fast started wondering if number of trade routes and route yield depends on the whole game. I do not know the exact answer (in my previous game Louis probably adopted Merchantilism and the profit was no bigger than 500 gold coins (normal speed)). So finally looked at F9 screen (top 5 cities/wonders). The owner - China. Sent there my merchants. This particular wonder does not have a miniature, I think. First city, second city ... small profit 1700-1900. Capital of size over 20 - 2100 max. But there remained the last city with pop of 13. But had to try ... the profit was 2500 gold coins. I figured out that this was the city where the Temple of Artemis was built.

So it is simple ... I you own this wonder, the profits will be smaller, because you cannot conduct trade missions with your own cities.

P.S. I am very curious what are the profits when f.e. Hanibal constructs ToA, GL and his UB. This means 5 trade routes with 250% route yield. Gotta test it ...

 

[mrt144]

youre looking at temple of artemis from only this perspective?

 

[Nick53]

This is the only bad thing about it? I still reckon +100% is pretty good, if ToA is really bad as you say, then why did the make it !?

 

[50_dollar_bag]

youre looking at temple of artemis from only this perspective?

Very true.

What about the GP points 2 for the wonder(GM) 3 for the priest
1 hammer and 1 gold for the free priest
+100% trade route bonus

Say you have the ToA in you capital, it has 2 trade routes(1 base and 1 from currency) at 3 commerce each, The ToA doubles that so you're gaining 6 extra commerce for the ToA.
If you're ToA is active for 200 turns then you'll get 1200 commerce before science or gold modifiers. If you we're running 50% gold on the slider and had a market you's get 750 gold over 200 turns (1500 @ 100% gold), the priest would give you 250 gold and 200 hammers. (Beauracracy makes this even better)

I figure you'd need to pull 2 trade missions in an AI owned ToA city to break even with owning the ToA from the extra commerce you receive.

Of course you have to build it first, but the free Priest should get about half the hammers you spent on it back, even more with Angkor Wat.

If you control the Great lighthouse the the ToA would be even better.

Personally I'd only build the ToA in a coastal capital when i have access to Marble.

 

[Jet]

P.S. I am very curious what are the profits when f.e. Hanibal constructs ToA, GL and his UB. This means 5 trade routes with 250% route yield. Gotta test it ...

Please do test it, I'd like to see the result.

 

[druidravi]

I too did notice that when someone adopts mercantalism you can get only maximum 500g . Napolean built the temple of artemeis and I took my great merchant there and he offered me 500g , I finally went to a coastal capital of ragnar which gave 2300g.

 

[oyzar]

i think you get the same output if the city you send the merchant from have toa. so you can build it if you plan to send the merchant from it instead of to it.

 

[Giaur]

youre looking at temple of artemis from only this perspective?

Not really. But this topic should have some title .

 

[Giaur]

So after one test:
Certain:
1) the size of the city
2) ToA built in the city
Uncertain:
1) distance between our capital and destination city. However it only counts vertical distance. dX does not count. If your capital is placed far on south and destination city is placed far on north, trade mission will be more lucrative.
2) if dest. city is Capital or city with Forbiden Palace, trade mission will be more lucrative
3) if dest. city is a Holy city trade mission will be more lucrative
4) when war with destined civ just ended, trade mission will be much less lucrative
5) coastal cities give more money
Where I was wrong:
1) number of trade routes and route yield does not count
2) Merchantilism does not change anything

i think you get the same output if the city you send the merchant from have toa. so you can build it if you plan to send the merchant from it instead of to it.

Maybe there is job for you to prepare your own test ...

All: I am very curious of your own observations ...

 

[Jet]

I didn't think trade routes affected it but I wasn't sure, so thanks for testing it. I believe the formula is here. The same thread has a handy way in the UI to preview the yield you'll get.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

I'm still quite convinced that ToA and Great Lighthouse are very dangerous combinations. The key is to setup your tech order to make the most of it. ToA is simple, just found coastal cities and use it to pay maintenance costs. If borders are open enough, it will pay itself off many times over. Some people even say Spiral Minaret is useful. Well you haven't met this baby. The only difficulty is, of course, keeping borders open.

 

[CivDude86]

ToA just doubles trade route yield in the city its built in so that stragedy doesn't work.

 

[aelf]

ToA just doubles trade route yield in the city its built in so that stragedy doesn't work.

It does. It gives your coastal capital an extra trade route and doubles the income of that. Given the fact that capitals already get a natural bonus for trade route income and that they usually get the best trade routes available, you can gain substantially from this.

 

[popejubal]

...you can gain substantially from this.

It won't increase with the number of cities, though. I think that the "it won't work" bit was for the suggestion that you can use this to create large numbers of cities with this strategy.

 

[aelf]

But, essentially, the strategy does work. The only mistake is this:

ToA is simple, just found coastal cities and use it to pay maintenance costs.

I think he meant the Great Lighthouse. And it's true. The extra trade routes, if there are enough cities to trade with, will help pay for the upkeep of coastal cities. Meanwhile, the ToA helps your economy is general by causing the capital to generate substantially more revenue from trade routes.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Thank you aelf, for doing the "spelling everything out" process for me. Combinations are not always direct; (if you want the most "direct" combination, Hanging Gardens and Notre Dame will be a good one). But essentially, it's:

1. Temple of Artemis
2. More gold
3. Found coastal cities, plus a far away one with stone.
4. Build Great Lighthouse and Harbours

If you're Carthage:
5. Build cothon and spam cottages peacefully, since you already land-grabbed with step 3.
6. Civil Service, Bureaucracy.
7. Faster liberalism --> astronomy than a specialist economy. Gold should rush out of your behind at this point.