Do poor people deserve to be poor?

[ComradeDavo]

Its either capatalism or communism. Take your pick!

edit: or socialism but honestly theres always going to be poor because there will never be a perfect communist society.

Not meaning to sound arrogant but you have alot to learn if you think it is a choice between those 2 absolutes. Go read up on mixed economies for a start.

 

[ComradeDavo]

This is a freaking right wing poll.. where's the "people are poor because of circumstances" option ey? They excist you know!!

Really, how many times do I need to post pointing out the sarcasm so clearly evident in the poll........

 

[EdCase]

Punkbass2000: well said.


He's an immigrant, and said one of my favourite quotations:

"In Canada, I have to work very hard. As hard as I had to work in Ethiopia. The nice thing about Canada, though, is that there aren't people with guns who will try to kill me."

I can understand the sentiment..sadly it ain't true. Just not so screamingly obvious or prevalent.

 

[GirlyGamerIC]

I think that poor people in developed countries DO deserve to be poor. I am studying at Imperial College in the Uk and fund myself entirely and still have enough money left over to have a good time. Before anyone mentions it, I work for my money and dont simply receive state grants or student loans.

Homeless people in developed countries deserve to be poor.

 

[Sidhe]

I dont think you can judge someones in a westernized environment as being poor constitutes=deserves it. There are about a million reasons why someone finds themselves poor, mental illness, alcoholism,drug abuse,bad luck, bad choices,no chance at education(having to support a familly) There is an endless list: I for example dropped out of education at age 18 for reasons I wont go into and am finally back in education at age 33, I can honestly say that my being poor in the intervening period had nothing to do with me being lazy,workshy or whatever, it was just bad luck, **** happens type stuff. So in conclusion I disagree that being poor is indicative of laziness or whatever. It's a person by person case.

Don't judge someone 'till you walked a mile in their shoes.

There's only one way of life and that's your own

***insert trite allegory here***

 

[Mise]

I think that poor people in developed countries DO deserve to be poor. I am studying at Imperial College in the Uk and fund myself entirely and still have enough money left over to have a good time. Before anyone mentions it, I work for my money and dont simply receive state grants or student loans.

Homeless people in developed countries deserve to be poor.

That's a blatant lie. You can't have a "good time" at IC.

Anyway, if you weren't as clever as you are you wouldn't be able to hold a job and get a degree at the same time. Most people weren't born as clever as you, and that's hardly their fault.

 

[Sidhe]

That's a blatant lie. You can't have a "good time" at IC.

Anyway, if you weren't as clever as you are you wouldn't be able to hold a job and get a degree at the same time. Most people weren't born as clever as you, and that's hardly their fault.

This does sound like a very middle class attitude: Did your parents go to university by any chance? A little bit naive: I agree 100% with Mise.

You don't have to be that smart to go to IC anyway

 

[punkbass2000]

I think that poor people in developed countries DO deserve to be poor. I am studying at Imperial College in the Uk and fund myself entirely and still have enough money left over to have a good time. Before anyone mentions it, I work for my money and dont simply receive state grants or student loans.

Homeless people in developed countries deserve to be poor.

Unfortunately, you are not everyone. The fact that you can do something does not mean anyone else can do the same.

 

[Mise]

This does sound like a very middle class attitude: Did your parents go to university by any chance? A little bit naive: I agree 100% with Mise.

You don't have to be that smart to go to IC anyway

You have to be a particular kind of smart. Too smart for Nottingham or York, but not smart enough for Cambridge or Oxford.

 

[anarres]

Wow that's the best up-my-own-arse-ism I've seen in ages.

 

[anarres]

You have to be a particular kind of smart. Too smart for Nottingham or York, but not smart enough for Cambridge or Oxford.

meh. Cambridge requires it's own kind of "smart". You need to be:

1) very very clever (social skills do not matter), or
2) clever with very good social skills, or
3) have rich parents who went there and small intelligence/social skills, or
4) To have VERY rich parents (who cares where they went) and small intelligence/social skills, or
5) To be Royalty.

 

[punkbass2000]

Wow that's the best up-my-own-arse-ism I've seen in ages.

Then you're not paying attention

 

[anarres]

I must admit... I vaguely remember someone saying that poor people in the developing nations should "go out and get a job"....

Yeah, my bad.

 

[punkbass2000]

Well, you can't blame people. Economics is a very complicated subject.

 

[Masquerouge]

I think that poor people in developed countries DO deserve to be poor.

And what shall we do with these people, then ? Hope for a good winter to solve the problem ?

 

[Sidhe]

You have to be a particular kind of smart. Too smart for Nottingham or York, but not smart enough for Cambridge or Oxford.

Just as a matter of interest where did you go to university Mise?

 

[Ukas]

Can't believe this thread. Some people seem to lack heart and life experience. It's easy, when you are young, don't know much and haven't actually risked anything.

I know a thousand examples, and I share two with you.

1. Back in my small hometown there was this man, who came from a decent living working class family. He studied to be an engineer in late 70's and after working a while he started a small construction company in early 80's. By the end of the decade he was rich and successful, and a good employer who was dedicated to his workers - a quality which is rare especially these days.

So, because of his past success he felt confident in his business to take risks. He funded one tenement building with a bank loan even when he had sold only half of his last building and even when there were first rumors about deppression (a thing which people like GirlyGamerIC don't have an idea of).
Banks still used to give loans quite easily, a handshake and that was that.

Came deppression, the guy got his building ready but investors were alarmed and nobody was interested to buy flats anymore. Bank directors were sacked because granting loans too easily and unemployment percentage doubled in short time and suddenly whole country was filled with over-competent people. The guy lost his company, house, two cars, all of his money, wife etc. His parents had guaranteed his loan, so they also lost all. His father died soon after that. One of his workers, stressed about his loans and unemployment, committed suicide. The guy felt he was responsible of this all.

So, after accomplishing more in a decade than most of us can in our lifetime he became a houseless unemployed man without a future. Just because one of his twenty enterprises didn't pay off.


2. A girl I know was molested as a child by her father and uncle. She tries hard, but I guess every now and then memories get too difficult to handle, she starts to drink and usually looses everything she had accomplished in sober period before that. A vicious circle indeed.

 

[Mise]

Just as a matter of interest where did you go to university Mise?

I'm at IC myself

 

[El_Machinae]

And what shall we do with these people, then ? Hope for a good winter to solve the problem ?

No, they are needed to do the crappy jobs.

 

[anarres]

I think that poor people in developed countries DO deserve to be poor. I am studying at Imperial College in the Uk and fund myself entirely and still have enough money left over to have a good time. Before anyone mentions it, I work for my money and dont simply receive state grants or student loans.

Homeless people in developed countries deserve to be poor.

While anecdotes seem to be in fashion...

When I did my A levels there was another student (a good friend) of a similar ability to me in maths. I applied to Cambridge and he applied to Oxford. We both got accepted.

Being middle class, I trotted off to uni as happy as could be. Being poor, my friend decided to not go to Oxford uni but to stay and help his family survive, and to go to a much worse uni where he lived. This meant he could still work in the family shop and help with his grandparents. This was an economic decision - but what choice did he have? Support his family (he was the 2nd person in the family able to work supporting 4 siblings and 2 grandparents), or go to uni and let his family lose their shop and house?

Sometimes it's easy to say "I did this without handouts". It's much harder to step back and realise that just getting to that point requires much more support from your family than you realise.

Another example - I've worked with lots of kids that have a hard life, even for an adult let alone a child. One I remember very well - at the age of 12 she was carrying out the parenting of her 3 younger siblings because her mother (single parent) was a drug addict. It's hardly her fault if she doesn't find it as easy to sail through to uni and a well paid job as little-miss-middle-class.

Well, you can't blame people. Economics is a very complicated subject.

Actually, I think I can. Anyone who is 18+ is old enough to know that they are not the sum of world knowledge. Knowing you know nothing may be a step too far for some, but at least knowing you don't know *this* particular subject very well is not unreasonable IMO.