Do teachers have it easy?

Are teachers....

  • underpaid

    Votes: 37 78.7%
  • overpaid

    Votes: 2 4.3%
  • fairly paid

    Votes: 8 17.0%

  • Total voters
    47

highflyin213

Warlord
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
Messages
113
Location
New Jersey
Well do they?

They have a long vacation and get paid $30 a hour but they also get no breaks.

http://money.cnn.com/2003/07/18/pf/easy_teachers/index.htm


NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - It's summertime, and the living is easy, especially if you're a schoolteacher.

Most people will find that statement either obvious or obnoxious. Those in the "well, duh" camp might note that teachers get the longest vacations of any workers in America.


Others may be offended, or at least provoked, by the suggestion that an educator's life is carefree.

Teachers work hard, after all, and the pay ranges from skimpy to merely adequate. What about that long summer break? You take it if you're lucky – many teachers must take second jobs to fill in the financial gaps.

So the debate is joined, now pick your side: Do teachers have it easy?

Low salary, short hours, or neither?
"It's an article of faith among many supporters of public education that teachers are underpaid," Ohio University economist Richard Vedder writes in a recent issue of Education Next, a policy journal affiliated with Stanford's Hoover Institution.

Vedder has stirred controversy in educational circles because of his conclusion "that teachers are not underpaid relative to other professionals."

Unions challenge that. The American Federation of Teachers recently released a survey of teaching salaries across the nation, showing that the average teacher makes $44,367 a year. In contrast, according to the AFT, a mid-level accountant makes $54,503 and a computer systems analyst averages $74,534.

Vedder's research tells a different story. Using data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, he found that on an hourly basis, teachers actually earn more than accountants, computer programmers, and even mechanical engineers.

Moreover, teachers' contracts often contain economic incentives not measured by straightforward salary surveys.

In California, teachers can get discounted mortgages and car loans, and tuition reimbursement. In Missouri, they can retire at age 55 with a pension paying 84 percent of the last year's income, plus benefits and cost-of-living adjustments.

The average public-school teacher receives fringe benefits equaling 26 percent of his or her salary, according to Vedder, versus about 17 percent in the private sector.

Two jobs better than one
A few years ago (OK, it was 20), a student at Verona High School shirked classroom instruction by pestering his teachers about their lives out of school. What did they do with their time off?

A few, like a history teacher whose spouse was an executive at Citibank, traveled to far-off lands. Others had more pedestrian holidays – you'd see them at the town pool (a jarring display of our common humanity).

Most teachers, like their pupils, held summer jobs. They took a week or two off, then got back to work.

The school district hired some to teach summer classes, or to paint the gym. Others sold real estate or worked at camps. One tended bar, another played guitar in a band.

A handful did well in the off-season, like a chemistry teacher who did research for a drug company. He said he earned three times more in the summer than during the school year.

Today, the song remains the same. "You name the job, and there are teachers doing it," says Janet Bass, a spokeswoman for the AFT.

Doing the math
If teachers are working second and third jobs, is it because their primary job is badly paid or because they have enough spare time to moonlight?

It's a tough question, because neither side can quite agree on how much teachers work.

"Teachers work fewer days, and fewer hours during the day, than other professionals," says David Salisbury, who directs the education project at the Cato Institute, a free-market policy group in Washington.

Most education contracts call for teachers to be in school about 6 1/2 hours a day. That's not enough to do a proper job, say teachers.

It takes time to draw up lesson plans, prepare materials, grade tests and fill out various forms mandated by school districts. Result: a pile of homework so high it would make a valedictorian swoon.

Indeed, teachers routinely talk of having two or three extra hours of work each day, beyond the strict terms of their employment agreements.

On the frontlines
To a teacher in the field, all this addition and subtraction is almost beside the point.

A teacher with a full classroom has no breaks. There are few other jobs -- soldiers in battle, day traders -- in which workers must be so continuously plugged in.

"People forget about all the little personal things they do on the job," notes the AFT's Bass.

There's no time to make calls to friends, send e-mail, or take a peek at the news on CNN/Money.com. "Just going to the bathroom is a rigmarole," says one grade-school teacher.

Between classes, even the best-prepared teachers are often scrambling. "Stuff doesn't go up on a chalkboard by itself," says Bass.

Of course, it's not child's play to get a roomful of kids to pay attention, let alone learn. "The little brats never keep still," said one particularly disgruntled ex-teacher. (He lasted only a year.)
 
Very much underpaid and underated.
 
My daughter is special needs, and I really get to see what they have to do.

Underpaid and underappreciated.

At least, they're not underappreciated by my wife and I.
 
I think the people that say they are underpaid are absolutely crazy. Unbelievable. Teachers around here get paid, in the beginning, $35,000 a year. Seniority will bring this up to almost $80,000 a year. Do you call this underpaid?
 
Yep. Certainly we get nothing like that here, and for quite a lot of work.

And here is a good piece off a staff room wall:
"I think teachers are overpaid. I think we should pay them a flat rate for the babysitting they do. Nothing for all that extra curricular bollocks, marking, sports, debating and all that stuff! Just $5 an hour, for each kid. Now...thats an average of 30 kids in a class, 7 hours a day, 40 weeks a year...$210000!?@! That seems a lot!"

It is interesting to consider which other profession involves dealing with 180 odd clients on an extremely personal level. :ack:
 
Underpaid. As to apriciated, the job is important but many of my teachers are simply idiots, with little general knowledge and are capable of nothing more than doing what's required from them by law.
 
i went for my workexperience to a school for the week in the UK and i followed many teachers around of diffrent age groups and it's very exhausting and hard work for the day makeing sure everyone is comming up to a certain standard as well as keeping good behaviour in the class its very hard work
 
I'd say underpaid, then I remembered that most of them get three months vacation a year.

That, and the fact that a lot of teachers are complete dolts with dreams of spending their entire lives entrenched in academia.

The fact is, and this is the same with daycare (arguably underpaid as well), is that it doesn't require the technical aptitude of other jobs, so it attracts a lot of people that shy away from more difficult education in other vocations. Don't get me wrong - being a good teacher requires being empathetic towards children - something that is all too rare. It takes a superior person to be a good teacher. But a lot of people wanting to be teachers don't get that, and you can get through the education without it.

It's too bad that all teachers can't perform at a high level. Then I would definately say they are underpaid. But I've known too many bad ones to say that they are underpaid across the board.
 
Underpaid simply because they have to put up with a load of little ****s. Who dont give a crap about education and only try to annoy the teacher into displaying an outburst of anger
 
Well, in Kansas, you need a four year degree, then a teacher's certificate on top of that. What's that, another year? So a five year education. Not exactly something a slacker would go for. Does this mean that I think teachers aren't dolts? No, I do agree with you on that. I've seen teachers that are complete morons. And I"ve seen some really good teachers. Ironically, the teacher that was not good for my son two years ago, turned out to be really good for my daughter last year.

As for the three months vacation, I've heard various things about that. . . I don't know if I could go three months without a paycheck.
 
Originally posted by Turner_727
Does this mean that I think teachers aren't dolts? No, I do agree with you on that. I've seen teachers that are complete morons.

I've seen some cashiers who are complete dolts. Help desk and customer service reps who are complete dolts. Business analysts who are complete dolts. Programmers who are complete dolts. Managers who are complete dolts. Senior executives who are complete dolts.

Being a dolt seems to be a requirement for advancement in a lot of professions.

Originally posted by Turner_727
As for the three months vacation, I've heard various things about that. . . I don't know if I could go three months without a paycheck.

I get four weeks vacation and I get paid when I take vacation days. I would suspect that it works the same way with teachers. They would earn an annual salary and would still draw that salary while on vacation.
 
I dunno, Dralix. . . seems to me that an awful lot of teachers are working different jobs in the summer time. I'm sure some have it set up like you say. In fact, if I were a teacher, I would want it set up like that. I recall reading somewhere on the web (long time ago, no links, sorry) that they don't get paid in the summertime. Which is why a lot of them have summer jobs.

But you're right about the dolts. . . I had a bunch of 'em at my last job. . . .
 
I don't have any sources to back me up Turner, I'm just making an assumption that it would work the same as any corporation. I could be completely wrong.

But as for the summer jobs, couldn't a teacher get a summer job regardless of whether they were still getting paid by the school? Our previous admin assistant was working days here and nights at Wal-Mart until she retired last month and moved to Vegas so she could be closer to the casinos. ;)
 
Oh, I understand where you're assumption is coming from.

It occurs to me that some, maybe most, of the teachers can't sit around all day for three months. So they go out and get a seasonal job at Wal Mart, or Drug Co, or whereever. It's a chance to get extra money with little to no extra effort. Could that be how some do it? I'm quite sure of it. Me being the lazy bastard I am, I probably wouldn't work for the first two months.

I'm in close with some people at my daughter's school. I'll have to see what their deal is.

Of course, it probably varies from school district to school district.
 
Originally posted by cgannon64
Public school teachers are underpaid. Private school teachers are ridiculously underpaid - and they are often the better ones.

In Israel the best teachers are private teachers or teachers in private institutions preparing students for important exams (final exams and psychometric). Both of these industries have become very large as a result of the poor quality of most teachers. There's a strange mix of people who teach because of their ideals and enjoy it and of people who simply couldn't do any better...
 
Originally posted by G-Man


In Israel the best teachers are private teachers or teachers in private institutions preparing students for important exams (final exams and psychometric). Both of these industries have become very large as a result of the poor quality of most teachers. There's a strange mix of people who teach because of their ideals and enjoy it and of people who simply couldn't do any better...

That's the same here. Because private schools pay alot less, there is really only one main motivation to teach in a private school: you actually care about teaching the kids something. Public schools are notorious for having kids that don't care about anything, so you have to really care about learning to give up money for better kids...
 
Originally posted by cgannon64
That's the same here. Because private schools pay alot less, there is really only one main motivation to teach in a private school: you actually care about teaching the kids something. Public schools are notorious for having kids that don't care about anything, so you have to really care about learning to give up money for better kids...

It's different here actually... There are few private schools. Many kids go to private instituations/teachers in addition to school. These provate teachers are getting pretty well paid, but they hire only the best teachers. Another problem is that too many kids think they're smart enough to do something and then rely on private teaching to keep up with the class.... There's a guy with me in 5 points math (the highest level) who didn't realize that
(a+b)/(a-b) doesn't equal 1.... Not suprisingly, he NEVER, for the two years he's been there, answered a single correct answer in class. Strangely though all his homework are always made perfectly... ;)
 
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