Do US Republicans want a failed state?

I do expect persecution to involve more than exchanging words on an internet forum but if you want to think of yourself as a martyr I can't stop you. I'll just take you even less seriously than I did already.

As I said, you're arbitrarily defining the word, "persecute." Certainly, @Cloud_Strife has in a few sharp disagreements with me and some others here viewed herself as persecuted and a martyr on these forums, even backed up in such a status by some other posters (possibly even yourself, I recall, I don't remember exactly, but others in the same groups of posters who often respond in) - even though, in truth, her demographic is NEVER actually what's persecuted on these actual forums - it's her obtuse and distorted viewpoint, her extremist opinions, and her constant caustic attitude (as well as insulting people needlessly). But her being a transwoman is used a surrogate to separate her case and treatment from mine - even though that's not the case or issue or at all - I have not seen any genuine and overt transphobic comments levied at her on these forums - the mods would GUT anyone who did say such a thing anyways.
 
Are you for real? Have you ignored decades of anti-lgbt legislation and laws by either party?

Or does that not register in your mind? In your reality?

LGBTQ rights and living legal standards have improved during most my lifetime. When I was born, in 1976, consensual, intimate homosexual activity between two consenting adults in private was still a criminal offense in almost every nation on Earth. Now, only hard-Islamist nations, and most African, Caribbean, and many Oceanian nations still have it criminalized (India's Constitutional Court overturned said criminalization there a couple years ago). Same-sex marriage and legal recognition of trans status is the norm in most First World Countries now. A fair number of First World governments (including a notable number of U.S. State Governments - because, as I said above, a lot of these laws are State jurisdiction, not Federal. Now, I don't know for sure, and you've never dropped the information, so I'm only guessing, but I'd say by a lot of your posts and perspectives, you live in a Red State. Living in such a place, especially if it was all of one's life (again, a guess), might give one the illusion that whole nation, perhaps even the world, was solid and unrelenting a anti-LGBTQ attitude, bigotry, and laws, and endless anti-LGBTQ legislation for decades. That would not be true. But Americans do have a right, while not specifically in the Bill of Rights, it's part of the Seven Articles, more or less, of internal mobility of travel, movement, and residence from State to State, with no needs of permission, passports, visas, etc., unless under criminal investigation, on parole, or other legal interdict of the criminal justice system - much like the song "Go West," by the Village People, and then covered by the Pet Shop Boys - even though San Francisco, their great LGBTQ paradise, nowadays has skyrocketing rent and cost of living. You might have to wait out the current CORONA crisis before doing such a thing, but it's something to consider.
 
IT's not that long ago when you would not be able to find that many Democrats vocally in support of Gay marriage and the other rights.
Even Obama took some years before he was brave enough to support it in public.
While there is still a long ways to go, it's much better than it was when I was young. But back then gay meant something totally different.
 
The Libertarian Party called for legalizing gay marriage in their platform back in the 70s...that was one of the reasons they got attacked. I remember PBS News hour with McNeil/Lehrer began an interview with Andre Marrou in '92 by saying the LP was identified with drugs and gays because they believed both should be legal.
 
Policy was dictated by popular opinion. (which wasn't that favorable back in the 70) People were still ignorant and afraid back then.
Only fringe parties could voice their support since they really had no hope of winning anyway.
The democrats didn't switch until the numbers in favor was well past the 50% mark. But you do have to give them credit since the Republicans are still ignorant and afraid and their leaders have no issue with using that fear to control them.
 
Wasn't the country more racist back then? But the Black Panthers were allowed to stroll in packing heat and no one got shot. So why would you argue white privilege when armed white people do the same thing now?
Yes, the struggle for racial equality was still young and while "revolution" was in the air, all that talk was just fringe. Inner city riots were the go to events that made the news. Guns weren't an issue in general. The level of violence in America was much lower. Any polarization was less public. Since then we have had an ever increasing level of violence, divisiveness and left/right antagonism. The never ending 2nd amendment debate has only made guns a far more public issue. We live in a very different world than 50 years ago. Police shootings of blacks is front page news today. White men feel quite comfortable walking around with weapons and using them as a threat. Black men do not have that confidence today, and recent history support their fear. Do we need to talk about what's going on in Georgia?
 
I do so love the sentencing minimums jackasses, with their jails full of the scum of the earth. Just fills the cockles of my heart with American pride to see, such... progress.

When you're so wrong you make Assclown more right, you should really examine yourself. Well, maybe you're doing enough of that already Killboner.

I can't really parse this, but I assume it's referring to me for some reason...have you taken too much Viagra again? :lol:

I stopped following the debate years ago but if I still remember it:
DP: these guys are bad they deserve it all
FB: that wish is your hypocrisy
DP: you are defending bad guys because you support them
FB: your collective desire for blood is vastly more evil

Nah, more like:

DP: The Hammonds and Bundys are freeloading criminals and should go to jail
FB: Rawr city folk bad rawr harmless heroes boners boners fundamental rights
DP: Eh, what?
FB: RAWR KILLBONER! :lol:

We’re talking about a very specific incident. One in which many “left” wing people wanted the police to kill in a brutal show of force.

Nah, most people just wanted to see them go to jail, but way to exaggerate and try to "both sides" this obviously one-sided issue, lol :lol:

To give you an idea, Lars Larson the local Northwestern right-wing radio crank who can't go a day without gargling Trump's tweet feed was fully against these Bundy/Hammond morons. Farm Boner likes to parrot the nonsense about "it was out in the middle of nowhere rawr", but the locals who lived in the area and had to deal with these militia morons hated them and wanted them gone. But don't tell that to Farm Boner, just like those prissy liberals he hates so much, he makes the assumption that no one lives in Eastern Oregon. Sad! You hate to see it. :lol:

Messed up, isn't it. Almost like there's pernicious bias in the system. Better put in sentencing minimums so we know everyone at least gets treated fairly, rite? I mean, that'd fix it, eh?

The answer also was clearly to have blown away the Black Panthers when they had their armed protests in California right? It's not like the majority would do something stupid like just erect roadblocks to those people legally possessing the scary scary, would they?

Comparing criminals who steal, send out death threats and commit dangerous acts of arson to the Black Panthers? Sad! You hate to see it. :lol:

And so the way forward is equal cruelty and the calling for equal summary executions rather tab ending them?

Like what do you think you’re saying that I’m not getting?

I guess what you’re telling me is that you support making things worse to achieve inter-tribal equality rather than make things better to achieve inter-tribal equality.

Which was Farm Boy’s point all along.

No, Farm Boner can't even tell the Bundys and the Hammonds apart from each other, so he doesn't really have much of a point to make. You bring up the Bundys and their criminal behavior and he says "arson is not terrorism rawr", but the Bundys didn't commit the terroristic arson, that was the Hammonds! :lol: Funny thing too, the Hammonds who went to jail for the arson were not fans of the Bundys and their pathetic powwow and told them to piss off and go home, which the Bundys ignored. Sad! You hate to see it. :lol:

Right. The super massively racist reaction is now liberal and it's "conservative and nazi" to object or whatever the hell the high on chromosomes term is of the moment is for those who dislike fundamentally removing rights from the people that may be inconvenient to their handlers and *****es. Not that I'd be calling you one of those, of course. That'd be dependent on your views. But w/e, right?

Are you whining about being called a Nazi because you're in favor of freeloading criminals terrorizing entire communities all because they don't want to pay grazing fees? It's a fundamental right of people to light fires that cover up illegal animal slaughter and endanger the lives of firefighters who you know are in the burn zone? Farm Boner, have you been having a priapism for the last 4 years or something? Seek medical help! :lol:
 
More pertinent to this thread, Bundy's Meal Team 6 had a little help and support from a Washington State Republican with noted Christian White-Nationalist tendencies...oof. I guess some Republicans really do want the state to fail, and take measures in an effort to make that failure happen. Sad! You hate to see it. :lol:

https://www.wweek.com/news/state/20...ton-state-lawmaker-helped-the-bundys-plan-it/

In 2016, Idaho rancher Ammon Bundy and a group of armed militants occupied a federal building at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Harney County, Oregon. They occupied the building for more than a month before being arrested.

The Bundys said they were occupying the land as a way to fight for two Oregon ranchers, a father and a son, who were being sent to federal prison for committing arson on public lands. Ammon Bundy railed against what he called "federal overreach." (The Bundys and most of their followers were acquitted of major criminal charges in a federal trial.)

There's no shortage of reporting on the right-wing movements that coalesced in the Oregon desert that winter. But a new report by the private investigative group the Rampart Group gives new details about the dramatic and frightening lead-up to the occupation, which shows pre-meditated and consistent efforts to intimidate, harass and threaten local law enforcement and local residents by Bundy and his crew.


Perhaps the biggest allegation is that Washington state Rep. Matt Shea (R-Spokane Valley) "planned, engaged in and promoted a total of three armed conflicts of political violence against the U.S Government" by helping to plan the 2016 takeover as well as aiding in two other out-of-state armed insurrections in prior years.


Shea formed the far-right group called the Coalition of Western States, or COWS, in 2015.


The investigation was commissioned by the Washington State House of Representatives specifically to look into Shea's involvement.



The report contains emails sent from Shea to a group of militants instructing them how to proceed with the takeover and giving them an operations manual. It also documents four phone meetings held between Shea and Bundy prior to the takeover.

In a statement issued by Republican House Leader J.T Wilcox, Shea has been suspended from the caucus and from his committees.

"Shea was given an opportunity to communicate with investigators and chose not to," Wilcox wrote. "Allegations this serious, many supported by his own communications and associates, justify this immediate action."

Shea responded to the report in a Facebook post.

"Like we are seeing with our President this is a sham investigation meant to silence those of us who stand up against attempts to disarm and destroy our great country," Shea wrote. "I will not back down, I will not give in, I will not resign."

The report shows that Bundy and his co-conspirators caused severe disturbance and fear throughout the county in the two months leading up to the occupancy, undermining basic county functions like the emergency line and taking over local gathering places, like coffee shops in Burns, Ore., to spread the group's beliefs.


An interview with Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward details the extent of the harassment leading up to the occupation in January. In November, Ammon Bundy and his co-conspirators took severe measures to intimidate and threaten Ward into stopping the Hammonds from returning to federal prison for arson charges on public land.


One of the more bizarre methods, according to Ward, was in mid-November when the sheriff's office was flooded with calls that overwhelmed the 911 line so actual emergency calls couldn't be taken.


According to the report, the calls involved "profanity, name calling, threats of violence and the accusations that the Sheriff was failing to uphold his oath of office."


Two days later, the report says Bundy showed up the Ward's office, armed and accompanied by 6 other armed men, and threatened to "deploy" militia in Harney County if Ward didn't act in defense of the Hammonds.


From there, the report says, Ward and his family were the target of social media threats and harassment.




What followed in the report is a description of aggressive propaganda efforts to coerce Harney County residents into supporting the takeover. According to the report, Bundy and his cohorts "showed up at local churches to get support and handed out flyers at grocery stores."
 
Wasn't the country more racist back then? But the Black Panthers were allowed to stroll in packing heat and no one got shot. So why would you argue white privilege when armed white people do the same thing now?
I'm sorry but this made me giggle because Black Panthers carrying firearms wasn't tolerated indefinitely.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act
 
The Libertarian Party called for legalizing gay marriage in their platform back in the 70s...that was one of the reasons they got attacked. I remember PBS News hour with McNeil/Lehrer began an interview with Andre Marrou in '92 by saying the LP was identified with drugs and gays because they believed both should be legal.

92-94 or so was last time I saw a gay bash.

Gay was the polite term.
 
"If you're not willing to take arms and overthrow your own government when they can't be tolerated anymore, then shut the <expletive> up!"
-Former Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe, in an "open statement to peaceful protesters everywhere."

Helps to have outside help as well. Zimbabwe is doing so well.
 
LGBTQ rights and living legal standards have improved during most my lifetime. When I was born, in 1976, consensual, intimate homosexual activity between two consenting adults in private was still a criminal offense in almost every nation on Earth.

Male homosexuality legalised in 1967 in England and Wales.
(Female homosexuality was never specifically illegal).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_Offences_Act_1967
 
Well, who is gonna object to some lesbian action? Apparently the guy who broke the German "enigma" code for the Brits was gay and they chemically castrated him (I think).

Moderator Action: Don't be tasteless. No one cares about your adult activities. ~ Arakhor
 
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@ Berzerker Diificult for me to reply without taking the topic severely off thread in at least four or five different directions.
 
More information about how Republicans out west are drawn to militias like that of the Bundys, Threepers, etc. I guess the thread has been answered, hasn't it? Republicans really do want the state to fail. Is that a surprise? They've been saying so ever since Reagan got elected! :lol:

https://www.politicalresearch.org/sites/default/files/2018-10/UIA_ExecutiveSummary.pdf

The Patriot movement worldview builds on tactics of county political supremacy forged in a decades-old racist rural insurgency called Posse Comitatus. Patriot movement groups argue that local sheriffs have the power to ignore federal law; they seek to promote the political dominance of county governments; and like Posse Comitatus they set up their own “grand juries,” “judges,” and “marshals” to meet out their idea of justice. Under the banner of “coordination,” they peddle the fiction that county governments can control how federal lands are used. In Oregon, several county commissions, two CSPOA sheriffs, and even a mining district have invoked the movement’s version of “coordination” to challenge federal authority to manage public lands.

Patriot movement activists are part of a larger trend of right-wing populists who feel that, as a group, they are losing power, and offer right-wing solutions to economic problems. Most movement activists embrace a “producerist” worldview that decries political elites while deriding others—such as immigrants and refugees—as lazy or immoral. Their simple solution to the economic problems rural areas face is to transfer federally owned land to states or counties, with the ultimate goal of privatization or deregulation for commercial use by the “producers” they claim to support: ranchers, loggers, and miners.

The movement operates with an “inside/outside” strategy: some parts of the movement work inside of established government structures to change them, while others work outside the system to undermine it. As “outsiders,” these groups are often armed and openly advocate defying those federal laws they deem unconstitutional. As insiders, they are embedded in the political life of rural areas, including the six Oregon counties at the heart of this report—Baker, Grant, Josephine, Harney, Crook, and Deschutes—and find a home within the state Republican Party. Oregon State Representative Dallas Heard made a pilgrimage to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation. Josephine County Oath Keeper Joseph Rice, leader of the April 2015 armed encampment at the Sugar Pine Mine in rural southwestern Oregon, attended the 2016 Republican Convention as an Oregon state party delegate. Former Harney County Republican Party chair Tim Smith was the head of the Ammon Bundy-formed shadow government, the Committee of Safety, during the occupation. Ken Taylor—treasurer of the state-level Republican Party and chair of the Crook County GOP, at least until mid-2016—recorded the founding of this Committee of Safety and promoted the group, even as Ammon Bundy and his colleagues were threatening the Harney County sheriff. You can also find Patriot movement priorities reflected in the national Republican Party—even if the movement’s tactics are still on the fringe. For instance, the 2016 national GOP platform advocates the transfer of federal lands to the states and denounces Agenda 21.

Remember though, according to *some* people, these aren't the acts of selfish right-wing militia punks, these are the god-given rights of rural people, or something. Sad! You hate to see it. :lol:
 
More information about how Republicans out west are drawn to militias like that of the Bundys, Threepers, etc. I guess the thread has been answered, hasn't it? Republicans really do want the state to fail. Is that a surprise? They've been saying so ever since Reagan got elected! :lol:

https://www.politicalresearch.org/sites/default/files/2018-10/UIA_ExecutiveSummary.pdf



Remember though, according to *some* people, these aren't the acts of selfish right-wing militia punks, these are the god-given rights of rural people, or something. Sad! You hate to see it. :lol:

The funny thing is, many people on this forum speak as though "all Republicans agree on everything, and are all in full consensus with all the most egregious aspects of the party's platform, and all fully and enthusiastically support Trump." While I, personally don't belong to either party (and can't legally - or, at least meaningfully, as a Canadian), on another game forum I frequent where politics are often discussed, there are sharply more (proportionately) Republican or Republican-leaning posters than Democratic or Democratic-leaning posters compared to this site's OT. And judging by that, many Republicans are JUST as divided on most significant issues as Democrats seem to be - including a fair number of those who actually detest Trump (the ones who voted for Johnson, Castle, or McMullin, or sat at home, in 2016).
 
The GOP wasn’t always bad but The D(onald Tr)ump’s cult of personality certainly is the worst of modern US politics. TEA party lunatics flocked to him. He’s shedding support from everyone outside his base. His fervent base cannot reasonably be helped anymore: it would take years of therapy to deprogram them.
 
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