Do you believe in a god?

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Lets face it: every believer has also a bit of atheist in him and vice versa. It is not what you believe but what give you satisfaction. Are you sincerely happy? Than you are doing the right thing and you are in position to make that happiness spread.
I believe in something but both my faith and conception of subject of my belief are evolving just like everything else. Why should I limit myself to something or by someone, be it my personal experience? Where are the limits? It would seem that there are non...

 

[timtofly]

Lets face it: every believer has also a bit of atheist in him and vice versa. It is not what you believe but what give you satisfaction. Are you sincerely happy? Than you are doing the right thing and you are in position to make that happiness spread.
I believe in something but both my faith and conception of subject of my belief are evolving just like everything else. Why should I limit myself to something or by someone, be it my personal experience? Where are the limits? It would seem that there are non...

I tend to not know happiness. I am content in melancholy. If that is sincere, then to me, it should not take much happiness in anyone to understand God.

On the flip side, most people seem to demand a lot of happiness for there to be a God. I suppose that if a person is always happy, then they would expect more happiness to stay that way. If a person is melancholy, it would not take that much happiness to keep them happy. Or some people will never be content, no matter what happens.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

I tend to not know happiness. I am content in melancholy. If that is sincere, then to me, it should not take much happiness in anyone to understand God.

On the flip side, most people seem to demand a lot of happiness for there to be a God. I suppose that if a person is always happy, then they would expect more happiness to stay that way. If a person is melancholy, it would not take that much happiness to keep them happy. Or some people will never be content, no matter what happens.

Thats the tricky part. First is of course definition of happiness which varies greatly.
From my experience it is something self-created not dependent on any outward circumstances but rather some natural/pure state of being/mind.
It would seem to me that not many people are aware of that kind of happiness as it requires much more simple way of life then people use to live these days. One has to put more stress on sincerity, humility and self-giving too. But these qualities has become somewhat unimportant or even unnatural.
If one pursues in this direction then one can arrive at solid happiness no matter if he is believer or not.
Also true happiness like divine love or anything divine is self-expanding and is connected to unlimited source. It doesnt require certain exhaustable conditions or circumstances. I guess people most of the time confuse fulfilment of desires in certain way with happiness.

Melancholy would also seem to me as something based in desire. With our emotions we try to posses the world around us in tricky way. The happiness comes here with increase of detachment.
If I understand that there is oneness on psychic level I do not need to posses the world around me with my emotions but I rather enjoy detachment which is spontaneous expression of that psychic oneness.

 

[robo-snickers]

If you really believe in a devine being, that is so perfect that he/she (What ever it is) will forgive you of your sins, and promises you a place in his home for the rest of eternity as long as you bow down on your kness and "serve him" is real.... then please give me whatever you are smoking.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

If you really believe in a devine being, that is so perfect that he/she (What ever it is) will forgive you of your sins, and promises you a place in his home for the rest of eternity as long as you bow down on your kness and "serve him" is real.... then please give me whatever you are smoking.

If you prefer believe in smoking rather then yourself or your highest-self (for God cannot be nothing else but that) then you are in the right place because this planet serves to all...

 

[robo-snickers]

If you prefer believe in smoking rather then yourself or your highest-self (for God cannot be nothing else but that) then you are in the right place because this planet serves to all...

Beleiving in a god is like believing that there really is a 3 story dog named cliffard, or homosexual vampires sparkle in the daylight. Just a fairy tale, believed by people that cant figure out whats real, or people that screwed up their life so bad, they turn to the one person who is suppose to forgive them, making them feel like the little boy or girl that they raped is a forgivable sin in the eyes of god.

 

[timtofly]

Beleiving in a god is like believing that there really is a 3 story dog named cliffard, or homosexual vampires sparkle in the daylight. Just a fairy tale, believed by people that cant figure out whats real, or people that screwed up their life so bad, they turn to the one person who is suppose to forgive them, making them feel like the little boy or girl that they raped is a forgivable sin in the eyes of god.

What would reality be for you?

 

[warpus]

Lets face it: every believer has also a bit of atheist in him and vice versa.

I hate using that phrase, but that can't be true.. by definition.

I don't believe.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Beleiving in a god is like believing that there really is a 3 story dog named cliffard, or homosexual vampires sparkle in the daylight. Just a fairy tale, believed by people that cant figure out whats real, or people that screwed up their life so bad, they turn to the one person who is suppose to forgive them, making them feel like the little boy or girl that they raped is a forgivable sin in the eyes of god.

What would reality be for you?

That would be my question too. You gave couple absurd examples but thats not enough I am afraid... If you are willing to give us more insight why you say what you say or better give us some positive definition of reality I am all ears.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

I hate using that phrase, but that can't be true.. by definition.

I don't believe.

Definition is one thing reality other. Do you really think that when someone says he believes in God he has no doubts or that he actually knows 100 %what he is talking about? You have to judge it on the level the person is saying that.

Oh, I am really sorry about the soccer game btw.

Edit: just try to think how many things a day you believe in. Its countless. You wouldnt be able even get out of the bed if you had no faith.

 

[warpus]

Definition is one thing reality other. Do you really think that when someone says he believes in God he has no doubts or that he actually knows 100 %what he is talking about? You have to judge it on the level the person is saying that.

You either believe that God exists, you don't, or you're not quite sure.

I don't believe that God exists, so I'm an atheist. There is no level of belief there at all. If there was I would not say "I don't believe" because that would be a lie.

Oh, I am really sorry about the soccer game btw.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't your fault

Edit: just try to think how many things a day you believe in. Its countless. You wouldnt be able even get out of the bed if you had no faith.

Sure, but one of those things that I believe is not a belief in a god

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

You either believe that God exists, you don't, or you're not quite sure.

Honestly, I am not sure its that simple. Two men can say they believe in God but the difference can be actually very vast. Sure, technically by definition and in theory you can put them in one group but what matters is how its translated into real life. Similarly someone can be naturally surcharged by faith (not necessarily in God) but this divine/positive quality will have great impact on him and others around.
Faith is form of strength and capacity. Absolute faith = absolute power and absolute power is God even though you may not call it that way.

I don't believe that God exists, so I'm an atheist. There is no level of belief there at all. If there was I would not say "I don't believe" because that would be a lie.

All right, but you admitted that you are aware that you use faith on daily basis. From strict spiritual point of view it doesnt matter if you dont believe in God. What matters is that you have some kind of faith which helps you to go on with your life- it supports your existence, hence its divine. Inside that divinity existence of God is apparent. Just like inside the faith of many so called believers (including myself) ignorance is apparent. Not much difference really...

I'm pretty sure that wasn't your fault

yeah, I wish.... no really my heart bleeds

 

[warpus]

Honestly, I am not sure its that simple. Two men can say they believe in God but the difference can be actually very vast. Sure, technically by definition and in theory you can put them in one group but what matters is how its translated into real life. Similarly someone can be naturally surcharged by faith (not necessarily in God) but this divine/positive quality will have great impact on him and others around.

That is of no interest to me (with regards to what we are discussing) - All I'm talking about is the distinction between people who believe that a god exists, and those who hold no such belief.

All right, but you admitted that you are aware that you use faith on daily basis. From strict spiritual point of view it doesnt matter if you dont believe in God. What matters is that you have some kind of faith which helps you to go on with your life- it supports your existence, hence its divine. Inside that divinity existence of God is apparent. Just like inside the faith of many so called believers (including myself) ignorance is apparent. Not much difference really...

That is quite a giant leap of logic there.

I have faith that I am capable of performing my job well and that my friends will back me up if I'm in trouble (2 examples) - how is that divine in any way whatsoever? It isn't; you can't just take my beliefs and somehow attempt to tie that to god

 

[Hitti-Litti]

What would reality be for you?

One doesn't have to be able to define reality in order to call something unreal or nonexistent (same thing applies to many other concepts as well, for example I can't define sentience but I can quite confidently claim that a rock isn't sentient). It's hard to say what is real and what isn't real, but we can be quite sure that Russell's Teapot doesn't exist and thus isn't "real". robo-snickers is just using the same logic to deities.

 

[timtofly]

You either believe that God exists, you don't, or you're not quite sure.

I don't believe that God exists, so I'm an atheist. There is no level of belief there at all. If there was I would not say "I don't believe" because that would be a lie.



I'm pretty sure that wasn't your fault



Sure, but one of those things that I believe is not a belief in a god

Are you saying that no one can know? The only options are belief or uncertainty? The accepted definition of faith is belief without proof. That means to me that your belief is set because there is no proof. Most people accept a belief or faith despite the fact that there is no proof. That would be faith without knowing although one believes what they have been told and do not need any further proof.

What do you do with those who obey God, and then they are given faith? Are they just "feel good stories" or can they happen in real life?

@ Hitti-Litti

I was just asking a very personal question to see if he would respond. I suppose he was just passing through and making an off hand remark and was not looking for any reply at all. I was just asking a question, to see what response I would get.

 

[Berzerker]

I believe in "God" because I cannot understand existence

its just a word to represent that unknown

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

I believe in "God" because I cannot understand existence

its just a word to represent that unknown

Yeah, its a symbol as are all the other words in human languages. What matters is the consciousness behind it.

That is of no interest to me...

fair enough...

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

One doesn't have to be able to define reality in order to call something unreal or nonexistent ...

Of course not especially in CFF OT- Tavern but it will give others better chance to discuss the subject. Plain comparison of something some people believe to something no one believes is not much of an argument, really.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I believe in "God" because I cannot understand existence

its just a word to represent that unknown

"God" meaning "I don't know".

Funny thing is, without this knowledge you and I could be days into an argument about the existence of God without realising we've both decided to place a different handle on our collective ignorance.

Are you saying that no one can know? The only options are belief or uncertainty? The accepted definition of faith is belief without proof. That means to me that your belief is set because there is no proof. Most people accept a belief or faith despite the fact that there is no proof. That would be faith without knowing although one believes what they have been told and do not need any further proof.

Which is why it's not easy for new insight to penetrate this faith. If it is based on something which cannot be transferred to others, and reversely won't be persuaded by that which can. Often there's a lot of talk concerning convincing the 'other side' they are wrong. In this case that's near impossible. All anyone can hope to do is try to get people to look at stuff from another perspective and have them make up their own mind.

What do you do with those who obey God, and then they are given faith? Are they just "feel good stories" or can they happen in real life?

Self-fulfilling.

The order of events is all wrong. To convince me I need to be shown the validity of something, before I decide upon it's merit. If you first need to be convinced of the validity and only then see the merit that's not really convincing. Often I have been told to allow God into my life and then the answers would come. All those annoying critical questions I annoyed our local preacher with would be extinguished by unquestionable faith. Neither the questions nor the answers would have any value any more once I accepted God into my life.

Obviously that was not good enough.

And it never has been good enough. No one is, or ever has been, able to show me a way to see the worth of believing in God, which didn't include believing in God beforehand to see it.

 

[warpus]

Are you saying that no one can know? The only options are belief or uncertainty?

No, I'm saying that a belief that god(s) exist or a lack of it separates atheists from believers. Which sounds like a very simple and intuitive thing to say, but that's all I'm saying.

What do you do with those who obey God, and then they are given faith? Are they just "feel good stories" or can they happen in real life?

Personally what do I think about those instances? Who knows, but I doubt they are actually connected to some sort of a supernatural entity that created the universe.