Do you like or hate Izzy?

[AJ11]

I like Izzy. She is like a pet attack dog when you have the same religion as her. As I spam missionaries all the time, which religion I am doesn't make much of a difference, so I tend to get the automatic +1: You accepted our religion bonus with her.

Saladin, on the other hand, generally gets his first two cities razed by me. If he survives long enough (which never happens if he is anywhere near me), he eats nukes like they were going out of style.

To be fair, it is not him that I hate. It is his civilisation. I get flashbacks to Civ3 whenever I see the Arabs popping up. Abu Bakr was a total whackjob, and his aggression level meant that I never get to play the builder style that I like whenever he is around.

So, it is always cripple and contain for mid-late game xp whenever I see the Arabs. And once I believe that I have mooched enough xp off him, the nukes start flying.

 

[Ataxerxes]

I like Izzy. She is like a pet attack dog when you have the same religion as her. As I spam missionaries all the time, which religion I am doesn't make much of a difference, so I tend to get the automatic +1: You accepted our religion bonus with her.

Saladin, on the other hand, generally gets his first two cities razed by me. If he survives long enough (which never happens if he is anywhere near me), he eats nukes like they were going out of style.

To be fair, it is not him that I hate. It is his civilisation. I get flashbacks to Civ3 whenever I see the Arabs popping up. Abu Bakr was a total whackjob, and his aggression level meant that I never get to play the builder style that I like whenever he is around.

So, it is always cripple and contain for mid-late game xp whenever I see the Arabs. And once I believe that I have mooched enough xp off him, the nukes start flying.

Um, I suggest you're not using Izzy to best advantage. She spams the missionaries for you so you can build other things, like Macemen to take the cities of your mutual enemies. I've never given Izzy a missionary but I've sure gotten a lot of them! With her I know I'll have a religion soon (I don't found one before Confuscianism or Christianity), which is a nice feeling.

I've never noticed her as much of an attack dog. She's so busy with missionaries she doesn't build much military. Which is why some others like her - easy to take out and you get a free Shrine.

 

[AJ11]

Um, I suggest you're not using Izzy to best advantage. She spams the missionaries for you so you can build other things, like Macemen to take the cities of your mutual enemies. I've never given Izzy a missionary but I've sure gotten a lot of them! With her I know I'll have a religion soon (I don't found one before Confuscianism or Christianity), which is a nice feeling.

I've never noticed her as much of an attack dog. She's so busy with missionaries she doesn't build much military. Which is why some others like her - easy to take out and you get a free Shrine.

I don't know. In my current game with unrestricted leaders (mainly because I wanted to try Hannibal of the Holy Romans), she is Mongols and bordering her are Julius of the Carthaginians (the irony...), Boudica of the Khmer and Ragnar of the Zulu. Not only has she survived three early aggressive leaders, she is near the top of the points table (alternating with Hatshepsut of the Sumerians), has the most cities of all the AI, and is kicking Julius' butt all over town... Where Julius is playing with curassiers, she is running him down with tanks! It's an ugly slugfest on that continent. I am just glad she is friendly with me because of the religion thing.

 

[thecaesar]

I've never noticed her as much of an attack dog. She's so busy with missionaries she doesn't build much military. Which is why some others like her - easy to take out and you get a free Shrine.

I don't see her best use as military, I see it as diplomatic. I am never, ever close to her, so I tend to see things from the "Heathen" point of view, and what annoys me most isn't HER military, it's her little buddhist buddies' militaries. HE isn't an attack dog; it's that SHE has HER own little (or not so little) attack dogs. IF I was ever her religion, her best use would be to protect me while I win some other kind of victory. However, as I am never next to her, her best use to me is gaining land for domination. Unfortunately, that results in everyone next to her hating my guts, and depending on who those civs are, it's not always pretty.

 

[uat2d]

If she's that big of a pain, why don't you just run no state religion?

 

[thecaesar]

Because that doesn't stop ME from hating HER.

 

[strijder20]

I love her. I played as Sumer on Monarch, sent 5 chariots to her, mainly to scout whether I would need more or not, and I discovered she had three cities, two of them holy, and the holy cities were guarded by a lone archer, the third by a mere warrior.
I obviously dowed and killed said units and a slow-built archer.
Oh, and I won that game Thank you very much, Izzy!

 

[Ataxerxes]

Because that doesn't stop ME from hating HER.

Actuallly, you're previous post brings up an interesting point I hadn't thought of. The proximity definitely matters and your comment about another continent is definitely true. I usually play Standard maps so she usually isn't too far from me. If you play Huge maps you would see her more from a heathen perspective setting up her own little lovefest against you. If you use unrestricted leaders and she doesn't start with Mysticism, I'm not sure what she'd do. Probably go for Judaism, I suppose. The further from Izzy you are the less you like her.

And actually the hate comes from personal experience, which is different for everyone. Some people have bad first experiences with Mansa Musa because he was on another continent, where he's a great danger. Others start with him on the other side of the same continent and get to love him. Sitting Bull on another continent? Useful for phony wars. Sitting Bull next to you? Hate him for 531 poisoning of wells.

 

[Skallagrimson]

I like Izzy. As a friend she spams my religion for me. As an enemy (which she will always be if you're a different religion), her tech-backward units give my units a lot of free XP, and the odd city here or there when I can economically manage early counterattacks.

Monty and Shaka, now those guys, I've been known to restart a game seeing them next door to me.

 

[Ice_Tyrant]

Honestly the only leaders I've ever noticed being obnoxious to me are Tokugawa and Moctezuma, so I guess I am indifferent.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Izzy's especially nice on continents where if she changes the place into her religous block, and you're in, you can tech in peace, and it's possible that you may never get attacked at all.

So what happens when you reach the other continents of heathens? Well you can easily bribe Izzy against them, or she'll probably find a way to war with them anyways.

It should be noted that she can plot against you at pleased but running her religion + theo and some trades should make it that you're sending her to war while you go to sleep.

 

[Ataxerxes]

It should be noted that she can plot against you at pleased but running her religion + theo and some trades should make it that you're sending her to war while you go to sleep.

Interesting point. Like Mansa, technically she can declare war at Pleased but it seldom matters. With me, Izzy is very seldom Pleased. Often Friendly, occasionally Annoyed.

There are really three categories of leaders, those than can't plan war at Pleased, those that don't, and those that will.

 

[J@ckRB]

I quite like Izzy as a next door neighbour. A Free religion and shrine to capitalise on? Thank you very much. She is weak in the early game, and even if she hates your guts, she really isn't much of a threat, as her "I-will-hate-you-and-will-attack-you-if-you're-a-heathen" ends up being her downfall, as she will hate more than 2 civs usually, and that will cause problems for her unless she's backed up be some (someone like Monty, another religious fanatic, but will have a giant army, but obsolete, on his side).
If you don't kill her, she's nice to use in a religious block as she will attack heathens at first sight, although don't expect too much from her.
I didn't know that she could declare at pleased, but in reality, she's either Annoyed/Furious or Friendly, so it hardly matters.

 

[danjuno]

A good Izzy is a DEAD Izzy. Unless she is of a different religion then some other Zealots, then Diplomacy is fun, and I allow her to live.

 

[Skallagrimson]

What I really hate the most is BEING Izzy. UU is only relevant for about a turn and a half, and UB is a freaking castle. That's a gigantic price to pay for the ability to flip civics with impunity.

 

[Farm Boy]

Izzy is pretty stout. EXP is fantastic. SPI is more than adequate. You should try those castles a bit more before you judge them too harshly. Economics can be delayed. I consider her UU to be City Raider III cannons out of the gate. They demolish.

 

[Ataxerxes]

Izzy is pretty stout. EXP is fantastic. SPI is more than adequate. You should try those castles a bit more before you judge them too harshly. Economics can be delayed. I consider her UU to be City Raider III cannons out of the gate. They demolish.

Same. Both of her traits are good. I don't use her UU much because I prefer Rifles to Cuirs but I can see it's use. The UB is very good - worth delaying Economics. The Treb to Cannon upgrade is pretty cheap for such a fantastic upgrade. Accuracy without risking a fight and CR III out the gate for the others. The UB and UU don't work together but overall she's a good leader. Not everybody is HC.

Only problem with being Izzy is she's not there as an AI.

 

[Skallagrimson]

Delaying economics... uhm...

 

[Farm Boy]

Delaying economics... uhm...

Hurts less than you would think seeing as Citadels come with the castle trade route. Also the espionage bonus if you so inclined.

 

[Skallagrimson]

I suppose if I'm not going for corporations and thus won't need the Merchant for sushi...