lindsay40k
Emperor
It's a pretty nifty way to accelerate a Culture win. Ssatellite cities build Temples to enable Cathedrals, give two or three cities a sea of Towns, and can build Wealth to subsidise 100% culture or units to deal with attacks.
Do you overlap city tiles?
- Thread starter malfuriouspete
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lindsay40k
Emperor
I'm fairly certain this applies to Happiness from Preserves as well.
Even more marginal, but there it is.
malfuriouspete
Chieftain
I purposely leave forests intact for this very reason.. do think that lumber mills come too late tho. Pretty sure the romans had sawmills, at least back to 300AD.. mind you, the use of a river was required to turn the waterwheel
You can build watermills at machinery, which can be bulbed fairly easily in the BCs.
lindsay40k
Emperor
And whilst somewhat surplus to requirements on account of the Praetorian, Roman crossbows aren't too anachronistic, either.
Spoiler :
Mec AntiKythera
King
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Sandals and swords is a good look.
Imperialistic
Chieftain
And whilst somewhat surplus to requirements on account of the Praetorian, Roman crossbows aren't too anachronistic, either.Spoiler :
That's actually a ballista - not anachronistic at all when you needed seige weapons and have not researched construction.
lindsay40k
Emperor
I gather the smaller scorpio and arcuballistra played a similar anti-infantry role to the crossbow, and Rome had pistol crossbows. And all were likely derived from the Greek gastraphetes, a wooden crossbow.
noto2
Emperor
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OP, I just want to say that it seems nearly every new player to Civ goes through this, and I went through it myself. We don't want to overlap so we avoid it. Then, at some point, you do the math and realize that overlapping is very good and you do it and your game play improves and you can move up in difficulty. Honestly overlapping is virtually always the right thing to do. The benefits from it far outweigh the costs. Also, keep in mind that later in the game you can re-assign tiles. What this means is that if you have 2 overlapping cities but one has better infrastructure, you can give all the tiles to the "better" city and take them from the poorer city, thus maxing the effectiveness of the better city.
Problem is, chopping is just so good it's nearly irresistible. Even when it is possible to build lumbermills that much earlier, it's still not worth it.
UnforcedError
Settler
In that case you keep sitting on (maybe) a few 100 extra hammers without utilizing them early on when it really matters. If you need hammer tiles at the time you have RP you can build workshops. If you need more food you can chain irrigate. If you traded for everything and still need more health there are a number of late game health buildings. You just have no need for lumbermills anymore when they finally become available. But you need those extra hammers badly at the start of the game.
UnforcedError
Settler
That would at least be something to consider. However, with Slavery available at BW as well there's always a way to build stuff even after you chopped away everything...
lindsay40k
Emperor
Not only that, chopping should only build things that are actually made of or with wood; trebs, ships and some buildings.
In fact, military units should be able to chop a forest to make an unprompted Treb.
In fact, military units should be able to chop a forest to make an unprompted Treb.
Imperator Knoedel
Simperator Knoedel
Personally I approached the problem from another direction and made Camps buildable on forests, giving +1 food. It works out fabulously for me.
Kallikrates
Prince
The whole forests business is not well thought out, I think. The extreme usefulness of chopping (and a certain prob for some regrowth) is another factor making maps and starting location very important and because the early game is the most important, lumbermills, forest preserves etc. are all kind of lame, because it is hardly ever rational to conserve forests until these can be built at all. Sometimes two forests for that extra health, maybe. But once lumbermills are around workshops and watermills will usually be better anyway.
noto2
Emperor
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Yeah...lumbermills would need to be available very early to be balanced, I'd say machinery at the absolute latest. Think about it, imagine they were available at machinery, would you then leave all your forests for lumbermills? No. You'd probably still chop the vast majority of them.
In fact, as someone already pointed out...even if they were available at BRONZE WORKING, you'd still end up chopping lots of flat land forest.
Another reason I end up chopping forest is strategic. I can't stand it when I get invaded and I've stupidly left a forest path for the enemy to take to my city. I can basically kiss my city goodbye in that case because I'll either have to
a) wait in the city to get slaughtered by siege or
b) fight the enemy in the forest where he's getting a 50% bonus.
In fact, as someone already pointed out...even if they were available at BRONZE WORKING, you'd still end up chopping lots of flat land forest.
Another reason I end up chopping forest is strategic. I can't stand it when I get invaded and I've stupidly left a forest path for the enemy to take to my city. I can basically kiss my city goodbye in that case because I'll either have to
a) wait in the city to get slaughtered by siege or
b) fight the enemy in the forest where he's getting a 50% bonus.
malfuriouspete
Chieftain
I guess as a strategy, never leave any forest tiles adjacent to your cities.. I had one, forest on a hill!! of course the AI went straight for that tile when it decided to attack me.
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