Do you think community colleges are bad?

[hobbsyoyo]

Is there any Associates in your opinion that mean anything?

Most Associate degrees and (especially) certificates in technical fields (welding, for example) are actually both practical and valuable. Many of the other Associate degrees are merely vehicles to help you transfer to another university to get a bachelors and should be approached as such. On their own, they are really only good to get you a managing job at McDonalds and so on because you have some college but are not specialized enough for most fields.

I was on the Board of my local community college, I'm not knocking Associate degrees, just laying out how they are supposed to work.

Community colleges typically have much easier classes/standards than state/private universities, so they don't say a whole lot about your skills if you've only attended a community college.

Of course there are exceptions, as warpus pointed out.

No they don't. In most states (as CKS previously stated), the community colleges are required by law to have the same exact standards as the universities. In fact, 9 times out of 10, they offer the EXACT same courses, but with smaller class sizes and more dedicated professors. Otherwise, the entire transfer system would break and be pointless. They get a bad rep from many other factors, but the overall quality of instruction should be the same if not better because of smaller class size.

Of course, reputation can be largely divorced from reality, so I guess you have a point that some community colleges could have a poor reputation that is entirely undeserved, exceptions aside.

CKS pointed out how professors at universities are largely there for research. This is true, especially so at technical and research universities. It's also true that full time faculty at community colleges are more dedicated to actual teaching than their university counterparts. This isn't always the case however. Also, the point about adjunct faculty being a crap shoot is very true. But in any case, this is a large factor to why the quality of instruction at a community college can equal or even exceed that of identical instruction at universities.

Many university students take summer classes at local community colleges because some courses at universities are designed to intentionally wash students out of programs. You don't have this problem at community colleges, or classes with 200+ students being taught by a non-english speaking TA.

Here, at least, we make a big effort to make clear to our students what degrees they need for what jobs, and what sort of pay they can look forward to. For students who are not in transfer programs, we have lots of industry ties, and the college works closely to make sure that students get what they need and that the students know what they are getting into. Many of our students still don't really understand how school works and what they can expect, both during and after, so we work hard to help them. For-profit schools are a totally different ball of wax, and they encourage unrealistic thinking so as to suck the maximum amount of money out of the student and system.

For-profit schools, especially for-profit 2 year schools, do suck the life out of the entire system. Let me explain:

Let's say the yearly tuition at a for-profit 2 year school is $2000. A poor student applies for financial aid to attend, and they get $1500 in grants from the state and also have to take out a $500 loan.

The next year, students rally at the statehouse and demand more grant money to make college affordable. The lawmakers agree, and up the grant the poor student recieves to $2000.

All of a sudden, the for-profit school has a tuition hike to $2500 a year. The internal reasoning is that even though the student is getting a bigger grant, they can still get a $500 loan.

So then the students go back to the statehouse and ask for bigger grants. Lawmakers agree, and the cycle continues on and on unsustainably.

Community colleges do not have stellar track records on containing costs either, but their primary motive is NOT to make a profit. Also, public community colleges are usually very in-tune with the demands and needs of the local economy. They don't try and lure in students to get worthless degrees that can't transfer or lead directly to a job. For profits don't care, they want more students period.

Sometimes funneling students into worthless degree programs can actually help them generate more grant dollars to support the worthless degree programs as the states and federal governments do a terrible job of distinguishing between 'worthless' degrees and in-demand ones.

 

[downtown]

Yup, that all sounds about right.

I did about 25% of my undergraduate coursework at a CC (Ohio State-Newark campus). The classes were smaller, I paid a lot less, and the schedule was flexible enough that I could easily take the classes I needed and do my physical therapy (I was coming off of surgery at the time).

My classmates were mostly idiots, but oh well. Can't always get what you want.

 

[Farm Boy]

My classmates were mostly idiots, but oh well. Can't always get what you want.

I took an ethics gen ed in philosophy over the summer at a CC. The instructor was terrific. I don't remember how many times my classmates told me I was going to hell. +1 for DT's assessment.

 

[ELITEOFWARMAN8]

Just never forget about opportunity cost. Like Downtown said earlier, if the degree isn't worth anything, you're better off spending your time focusing on other coursework, or perhaps even working.

If you spend a year at CC for a worthless degree, and making certain assumptions about your age, gender, and race, you've thrown away something like $20,000 to $25,000.

Well US job market isn't going to improve anytime soon so any work I could and will do would be crap jobs, just for spending money and resume fodder.

How the hell are you getting those numbers? At my local CC's it only cost about $1,700 a semester. $3,500 a year.


And I'm in $0 debt right now anyhow so I don't have to worry about being in the hole until later on when I go to get my BS.

 

[downtown]

, just for spending money and resume fodder.
.

Building your resume before you graduate is actually critical, especially with a very crowded degree like criminal justice.

 

[GoodGame]

They are good if you feel you want to study more before going into your undergraduate program, or if they are your most economical option, but I wouldn't stay too long at one if I had funding to go on to a Bachelor's program. Your time is money, especially if you want to go on to a more professional program.

I agree with Farm Boy in that they can give a good value if they are supported by a local private university(ies), and they might be the closest thing to public universities in some regions.

 

[ELITEOFWARMAN8]

Building your resume before you graduate is actually critical, especially with a very crowded degree like criminal justice.

Which is why I like to get a internship in the field, and actually, it's requirement of both programs from the 2 schools I am looking at.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Well US job market isn't going to improve anytime soon so any work I could and will do would be crap jobs, just for spending money and resume fodder.

How the hell are you getting those numbers? At my local CC's it only cost about $1,700 a semester. $3,500 a year.


And I'm in $0 debt right now anyhow so I don't have to worry about being in the hole until later on when I go to get my BS.

I think he was talking about the opportunity cost of NOT working to go to college. If you go to college and not work full time, you could potentially lose out on ~$20K/year.

Edit: And don't forget the on-the-job experience you could be missing out on as well.

 

[Murky]

I'd recommend going to a Community College over a Private Institution. The fees will be smaller but the quality is likely to be just as good or better.

 

[ELITEOFWARMAN8]

I think he was talking about the opportunity cost of NOT working to go to college. If you go to college and not work full time, you could potentially lose out on ~$20K/year.

Ah ok, I misunderstood. My apologies.

With me, I rather take my chances. Besides, what happens if my Criminal Justice "career' doesn't pan out and I don't have any of this Business stuff? Then, regardless if it is useless or not, I definitely won't have anything to fall back on.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Ah ok, I misunderstood. My apologies.

With me, I rather take my chances. Besides, what happens if my Criminal Justice "career' doesn't pan out and I don't have any of this Business stuff? Then, regardless if it is useless or not, I definitely won't have anything to fall back on.

Eh, I wouldn't worry to much. By the time you are out of college (assuming you just started) the economy will be better and it won't be so hard to find a job without the exact credentials/degree/experience companies are currently demanding.

 

[downtown]

I'd recommend going to a Community College over a Private Institution. The fees will be smaller but the quality is likely to be just as good or better.

That totally depends on the private institution. If the choice is CC vs most online schools, yeah, take the CC. If it's CC vs 4 year private university, even at the higher fees, the credentials from the 4 year school will usually trump a CC>

Ah ok, I misunderstood. My apologies.

With me, I rather take my chances. Besides, what happens if my Criminal Justice "career' doesn't pan out and I don't have any of this Business stuff? Then, regardless if it is useless or not, I definitely won't have anything to fall back on.

If it's useless, you can't fall back on it. If you are concerned that a Criminal Justice degree may not provide the security you want (which I think is valid), you can always double major, and/or cover your bases with work experience during college. If you insist on going to CC, you could prob take some general business administration classes, so when you transfer to a 4 year school after a year or two, you can focus on Criminal Justice classes, take a few business ones, and get a double major. That would actually be smart.

 

[ELITEOFWARMAN8]

That totally depends on the private institution. If the choice is CC vs most online schools, yeah, take the CC. If it's CC vs 4 year private university, even at the higher fees, the credentials from the 4 year school will usually trump a CC>



If it's useless, you can't fall back on it. If you are concerned that a Criminal Justice degree may not provide the security you want (which I think is valid), you can always double major, and/or cover your bases with work experience during college. If you insist on going to CC, you could prob take some general business administration classes, so when you transfer to a 4 year school after a year or two, you can focus on Criminal Justice classes, take a few business ones, and get a double major. That would actually be smart.

That's why I will never go to a 4 year place solely because it will look good on my resume. It is just plain stupid. My brother did that and is 40K in the hole and has a crap job and never held a real job.

I find it hard to believe though that anything I get in Business from a CC would be useless though.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

That's why I will never go to a 4 year place solely because it will look good on my resume. It is just plain stupid. My brother did that and is 40K in the hole and has a crap job and never held a real job.

I find it hard to believe though that anything I get in Business from a CC would be useless though.

But to be fair a Business BS from a not-stellar 4 year isn't going to do you a lot of good in this economic situation either, whereas a Business BS from a stellar 4 year could get you places.

Take it this way:
A liberal arts degree is mostly useless without serious job experience
A STEM degree from just about anywhere is money in the bank
A Healthcare degree from most places is great
A Business degree that's not from Harvard is iffy

My take away advice:
1)Pick a field that's hiring, needs workers and has potential for growth.
2)Go to the best school that grants degrees in that field you can get into.
3)Take community college courses that will transfer to a 4 year program in your field until you've figured out 1 & 2.

 

[ELITEOFWARMAN8]

But to be fair a Business BS from a not-stellar 4 year isn't going to do you a lot of good in this economic situation either, whereas a Business BS from a stellar 4 year could get you places.

Take it this way:
A liberal arts degree is mostly useless without serious job experience
A STEM degree from just about anywhere is money in the bank
A Healthcare degree from most places is great
A Business degree that's not from Harvard is iffy

My take away advice:
1)Pick a field that's hiring, needs workers and has potential for growth.
2)Go to the best school that grants degrees in that field you can get into.
3)Take community college courses that will transfer to a 4 year program in your field until you've figured out 1 & 2.

But then again I was told Harvard isn't all that great themselves in certain fields anyhow and are overrated in certain programs.



Will do.

 

[cardgame]

A Bachelor's in Business will never get you anywhere, you need an MBA. If you have a second major it could be helpful though.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

But then again I was told Harvard isn't all that great themselves in certain fields anyhow and are overrated in certain programs.



Will do.

Oh for sure they aren't stellar for every field. The same can be said about all universities. You just have to realize that just because you go to a great university for one field, that doesn't necessarily carry over to other fields. And Harvard was just an exaggeration anyways.

 

[Patroklos]

No they don't. In most states (as CKS previously stated), the community colleges are required by law to have the same exact standards as the universities. In fact, 9 times out of 10, they offer the EXACT same courses, but with smaller class sizes and more dedicated professors. Otherwise, the entire transfer system would break and be pointless. They get a bad rep from many other factors, but the overall quality of instruction should be the same if not better because of smaller class size.

There are MINIMUM requirements for accreditation, that does not mean that community colleges have the same standards or larger institutions.

And you will probably find that the the transfers from community colleges to those other institutions are far from one for one credit hour.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

There are MINIMUM requirements for accreditation, that does not mean that community colleges have the same standards or larger institutions.

And you will probably find that the the transfers from community colleges to those other institutions are far from one for one credit hour.

Nope. They are the same standards and credit hours in many states. They have to be by statute and if they weren't, the whole transfer system would break as I said before. Just think about it for a minute.

I'm not saying there are exceptions, but in any state that actually cares about higher education and doesn't want to waste tax dollars subsidizing it through second-rate community colleges, this is the case.

 

[Quackers]

From an outsiders British perspective CC sounds like a good idea....from what i've read

I think the British equivalent is the Open University..