Do you think the EURO is a success ?

[onejayhawk]

The Euro is, and was never intended to be, local. Whether Pound, Mark, Lire, or Franc, the point is to have a baseline. The fact that is useful in the tourism trade is a selling point, not an end in itself. Also I expect that a great many contracts have begun using Euro's in order to avoid choosing a local currency in border spanning business arrangements. The public never sees those, and yet they dominate commerce. One advantage the US has always had is that a dollar in Florida is a dollar in Maine.

J

 

[Hitro]

Originally posted by knowltok2
And you wonder why the US tends towards unilateralism.

Hey, you be quiet, I haven't forgotten that you stole our flag once.

Originally posted by Serutan
The main thought I have had is that the
adoption of the euro will force the eventual political integration
of Europe. Do those of you in the Euro zone think that is
true?

Hmm, I'm not sure that it will force it any further than it already is (which is not far enough). After all the Euro is a pure financial/economic factor, so it's a manifestation of the economic integration, but I don't think that it contributes much to the political part.
However, to judge that we have to wait longer.

 

[AVN]

Originally posted by Hitro
Is that new flag idea for real?
If yes, how sick can people be?

Sorry Hitro,
but I like it.

 

[Hitro]

We are talking about the thing Jandor posted, right?

What do you like about it?

It is totally unpractical, I mean how can easily reproduce something like that?

 

[Jandor]

Since you all showed so much interest in the flag, heres a small article on it heres a small article on it

Personally im a fan of the Euro and European Federalism, and it would be nice to belong to an Important country. instead of just plain old britian. pfft britain, what did that little nation ever do for the world ?


EDIT: Oh and heres the EU site (i think) for those with an interest in the EU

 

[AVN]

Originally posted by Hitro
We are talking about the thing Jandor posted, right?

What do you like about it?

It is totally unpractical, I mean how can easily reproduce something like that?

Yes, we are talking about Jandor's flag.
IMO it shows something like cooperation. There are a lot of different colours, we accept them, we try to understand each other and we try to cooperate. Furthermore we try to symbolize that.

Please explain what's wrong with that idea.

 

[AVN]

Originally posted by Jandor
Personally im a fan of the Euro and European Federalism, and it would be nice to belong to an Important country. instead of just plain old britian. pfft britain, what did that little nation ever do for the world ?

I think Britain has a rich history.
Just to be sure, do you live there ?

 

[Hitro]

There's not much wrong with the idealistic idea behind it, but there's alot wrong (in my opinion) with the actual look of it.

This:

simply looks nothing but confusing.
Furthermore the single flag colors even blur into each other when the upper color of one resembles the lower of another, just look at the red area at the right for an example.
For practical use, think about people wanting to paint it somewhere or to produce a fabric one themselves.
"What came after the fourth red again?"

And from an idealist's point of view it is also not perfect. Why show single country nationalism in a united flag?

 

[Jandor]

I think Britain has a rich history.
Just to be sure, do you live there ?

I do, and i like Britain, i was being sarcastic, i suppose i could have made it a little more evident. Although i am a supporter of European Integration as well. Britain joining a United Europe wouldnt destroy its rich history after all.



Teacher: What is the most important date in European History?
Student: The day Britain joined the United States of Europe sir.
Teacher: Good, cos well all know britain is the most important state in Europe dont we.

 

[Pillager]

Originally posted by Hitro

Hey, you be quiet, I haven't forgotten that you stole our flag once.

Hmm, I'm not sure that it will force it any further than it already is (which is not far enough). After all the Euro is a pure financial/economic factor, so it's a manifestation of the economic integration, but I don't think that it contributes much to the political part.
However, to judge that we have to wait longer.

Sorry Hitro, but that's wrong. The Euro is about a lot more than economics, and it has always been viewed by some as a tool by which to gain further political integration. If it were simply a European project with the sole long and short term aim being to strengthen European economies a lot more work would have gone into preparing the groundwork.

The Euro will lead to further political integration assuming its users want it to work. For it to function properly it will require further 'co-operation', and I guarantee that within the next few years we will hear "Well, the Euro is all well and good, but it has X and Y problems, and the central European system needs X and Y powers for it to function better".

This will happn regardless of whether or not it is a failure or not in the short term.

 

[Hitro]

Originally posted by Pillager
Sorry Hitro, but that's wrong. The Euro is about a lot more than economics, and it has always been viewed by some as a tool by which to gain further political integration.

I know that it is viewed as that by some, I just don't share that view.
I think its main purpose is to serve the interests of Europe's multinational corporations, the integration argument has been used to get the support of leftist idealists.

This will happn regardless of whether or not it is a failure or not in the short term.

This may happen regardless of whether or not there's the Euro. European integration with the goal of "United States of Europe", however that would look like, is the dream of many people all over Europe and even all over the political spectrum, maybe excluding hardline nationalists.
The fact that the monetary union came before a democratic union is designative for the EU's real goals...

 

[Logain]

Depends on what you mean by success. It is a weak currency and prices have risen (here professional fees - doctors, dentists, etc. - have risen by an unseemly amount) by quite a lot. Businesses got away with price increases when the Euro was first introduced because people weren't really good at converting. However I think people have woken up and started protesting, e.g. the boycott in Greece.

However its been a success in that the population of 12 different countries with different national currencies have gotten used to using the same currency. I saw some pound coins for the first time in months two weeks ago and they looked very unnatural. Also some governments like a weak Euro. It means their exports are a lot cheaper and attracts tourism but it does increase inflation.

BTW I just got back from a week in Brussels and Amsterdam and I found the Euro dead handy. I didn't have to convert from francs to pounds and vice-versa to compare prices. I knew what everything cost, no getting ripped off by shady businesses. I still spent a fortune though. Beer is so expensive in Amsterdam, why????

 

[AVN]

Originally posted by Logain
Beer is so expensive in Amsterdam, why????

Where did you drink your beer ? In the Hilton hotel ?

I know beer is a little bit more expensive in Amsterdam than in other cities in The Netherlands. But even then it's still a lot cheaper than drinking beer in France, Germany or Austria and IIRC also London.

And please don't visit Scandinavia if you like to drink your beer. It would bankrupt you.

 

[AVN]

Back On Topic.

I don't think the Euro is a success at the moment. Prices in shops rised more than normal by misuse of the conversion. But that was an one time event, so IMO not such a big problem.

A bigger problem is that the currency is quite weak. Weaker than the gulden we had. One of the reasons of that is that countries like Greece and Italy, with bad budget politics, were allowed to participate. Of course there are strict budget rules now, but I seriously doubt if they can and will stick to them.

On the other hand one currency is good for trading and for that reason I'm optimistic for the very long term.

 

[Akka]

I consider that the Euro has been successful so far by surviving, which was not guaranteed at all at the start. The first few years will be a bit tensed, but when people will be used to the new currency, the prices increase will be back on normal, and a big step toward a federalist Europe will be done.

 

[Damien]

Originally posted by AVN
A bigger problem is that the currency is quite weak. Weaker than the gulden we had.

1euro=more than 2 guilders,right?

 

[AVN]

Originally posted by Damien


1euro=more than 2 guilders,right?

Yes.
1 euro = 2.20371 guilders to be exactly.

But a few years ago 1 euro was worth more than 1 US dollar.
Now it's something like 90 dollarcents.

So it's lost a significant part of it's worth.

 

[Greadius]

Not compared to most currencies. The dollar is actually unusually strong right now, that doesn't mean the Euro is necessarily weak.

Another advantage of the Euro is it will make intigration of Eastern European countries into the EU much easier by giving them a stable currency to latch on to.

 

[insurgent]

Greadius, that flag you posted was the gay and lesbian flag of the US, right? I don't think it's inspired by that...

But I like the current flag of the EU is very nice, I like it very much. It has that simplistic dignity, patriotic beauty and very nice simple and good colour-setting. I can't, at this moment, think of a nicer flag.
So bring on the USE, 'cause the flag is good enough!

 

[Hitro]

Originally posted by Greadius
Not compared to most currencies. The dollar is actually unusually strong right now, that doesn't mean the Euro is necessarily weak.

That's not wrong and the Euro even reached parity a few weeks ago.
But the effective loss for the people here is not in the value against the Dollar, but in the Euro-related inflation, especially through the change.

Another advantage of the Euro is it will make intigration of Eastern European countries into the EU much easier by giving them a stable currency to latch on to.

On the other hand some fear that the integration of those countries will weaken the currency.