DOC Quality Mod Compilation

[Elberith Logos]

Dunno about QMC, but Ottomans are conditional in the main DoC mod. If the Turks never conquer a city in the Middle East (defined as west of Tehran, roughly), then the Ottomans do not spawn.

Oh that makes sense. I like to play Babylon which, when combined with the new Turkic civ being able to collapse, really messes with stuff

 

[Elberith Logos]

Zimbabwe's population is stuck at one, even though their terrain is very developed

 

[1SDANi]

Zimbabwe's population is stuck at one, even though their terrain is very developed

Coincidentally enough, I've been playing Zimbabwe the last few days.

I'd assume that's due to them having a lot of tiles for massive quantities of production and commerce and very few tiles for moderate quantities of food.

@merijn_v1 does this also happen to AllCivs Zimbabwe?

 

[merijn_v1]

IIRC not. But check if the option "avoid growth" in the city menu is enabled.

 

[1SDANi]

IIRC not. But check if the option "avoid growth" in the city menu is enabled.

I'm assuming @Elberith Logos was talking about the Zimbabwe AI

 

[Elberith Logos]

I'm assuming @Elberith Logos was talking about the Zimbabwe AI

Yeah the AI. They probably just need slightly better food access on one tile at the capital

 

[1SDANi]

Yeah the AI. They probably just need slightly better food access on one tile at the capital

True, IIRC their capital is on a hill, and I did make a change to base city tile yields. I'll look into this and see if I can find a sensible way to fix it.

 

[1SDANi]

I'm having trouble incentivizing the Zimbabweans to build pastures and farms. They keep focusing on mines and quarries to the point that even if I make their starting hill a grassland it makes little difference.

 

[1SDANi]

Republic Maintenance cost reverted from Distance from Capital back to Number of Cities.

 

[Andreevski]

Greetings! I have been playing the mod for a while and on several occasions the game crashed to desktop. Uploaded is a save with America that I just started. The game crashed two turns after the save was made. I hope this helps with the mod improvement.

 

[1SDANi]

Greetings! I have been playing the mod for a while and on several occasions the game crashed to desktop. Uploaded is a save with America that I just started. The game crashed two turns after the save was made. I hope this helps with the mod improvement.

I could not reproduce the crash by ending the turn 3 times nor by settling the first city and ending the turn 3 times. Could I have some instructions on how to get this crash?

 

[1SDANi]

Created new branch: Varied America.

I always felt restricted by America's UP, but I'm not certain everyone would like such a drastic change. As such I decided to create a new branch with a very simple change.

Now America gets it's +2 Happiness from any late game civic in the usual 4 categories.

I have also renamed the UP to "Power of American Enlightenment", and intend it to represent the pride that many of my fellow Americans feel in being from a nation that they think had so many firsts. Democracy, Secularism, Women's Rights, Outlawing Slavery, etc, etc.

 

[1SDANi]

Just fixed a visual and AI bug in the Varied America branch

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

Created new branch: Varied America.

I always felt restricted by America's UP, but I'm not certain everyone would like such a drastic change. As such I decided to create a new branch with a very simple change.

Now America gets it's +2 Happiness from any late game civic in the usual 4 categories.

I have also renamed the UP to "Power of American Enlightenment", and intend it to represent the pride that many of my fellow Americans feel in being from a nation that they think had so many firsts. Democracy, Secularism, Women's Rights, Outlawing Slavery, etc, etc.

So, it's just a nationalistic happiness bonus, since it'd be harder not to get it than to get it? Why not just a flat bonus instead of a bonus that applies 99% of the time?
Also none of those are good examples

 

[1SDANi]

So, it's just a nationalistic happiness bonus, since it'd be harder not to get it than to get it? Why not just a flat bonus instead of a bonus that applies 99% of the time?
Also none of those are good examples

I could have implemented such a bonus, but since the theme was "Americans think they're the innovators of all progress", giving happiness for going back to Feudalism or Monarchy felt weird.
I think they're perfect examples of Americans thinking their nation was the first when it was not.

 

[ozqar]

Created new branch: Varied America.

I always felt restricted by America's UP, but I'm not certain everyone would like such a drastic change. As such I decided to create a new branch with a very simple change.

Now America gets it's +2 Happiness from any late game civic in the usual 4 categories.

I have also renamed the UP to "Power of American Enlightenment", and intend it to represent the pride that many of my fellow Americans feel in being from a nation that they think had so many firsts. Democracy, Secularism, Women's Rights, Outlawing Slavery, etc, etc.

Oh man, good you said "they think had so many firsts" because I was about to open wikipedia articles for democracy, secularism, women's rights, and outlawing slavery to post correct dates and countries.

I understand this comes after the whole discussion on "could the UN become a totalitarianism promoting institution?" I agree, it could've, had wars and events turned out differently. In the end, it was totalitarianism of a different nature that was imposed, but anyway. The bonus, though, is not related to the civics, but simply to nationalistic pride (no negative connotations), as Jarlaxe says, since in the US, so much of the national identity is linked to the institutional choices defined in the constitution. But this is not a unique American feature, it's the same with France - they talk about "republican" values as being "French", and for the ancient Greeks, and the descendants of the dragon, living under the son of heaven? and I dare guess also for Soviet Russia? and Nazi Germany? and Imperial Japan? Most states (countries) accord legitimacy to their circumstantial political arrangements by linking them to national identity - so people won't challenge the powers that be. Some other countries don't do it as prominently, because there are more accessible and effective bastions, such as history, religion, or ethnicity.

But... this is not so interesting as a power, it's rather passive, it will be active always, and create no more incentives to have specific play options, nor it reflects in any way any unique American feature.

Here's another idea inspired by this rambling of mine. How about extra gold per civ running the same civics as America and maybe not a flat rate but a % of the other civ's commerce? So that it'd be better to have the rich nations running your civics than the poor ones. It gives an incentive to the US to impose its way all over, protecting rich allies and actively influencing external politics. This portrays the function of the global (ie, Western) financial institutions that run the world since WWII, the security watchdog role the US likes to play everywhere, and that levity with which they sponsor coups d'etat in unfavoring countries - you know, changing legitimate foreign governments at will and all that.

Anyway, this comes as sarcastic from my side, but I think it's accurately tied to history and, despite my unfavorable views on American politics, it makes for interesting and unique gameplay. As a follow up thought, though, the Soviet Union in the game has a similar objective promoting Communism, so it would make sense for the US to stick to capitalism, democracy, etc., and play that rivalry accurately. So, that would mean restricting the UP to these civics and not all those that could've been (although I very much agree with your proposition that, had politics and history played out differently, American pride would stand in line with whatever other civics and form of government that happened to occur).

What do you think?

 

[1SDANi]

Here's another idea inspired by this rambling of mine. How about extra gold per civ running the same civics as America and maybe not a flat rate but a % of the other civ's commerce? So that it'd be better to have the rich nations running your civics than the poor ones. It gives an incentive to the US to impose its way all over, protecting rich allies and actively influencing external politics. This portrays the function of the global (ie, Western) financial institutions that run the world since WWII, the security watchdog role the US likes to play everywhere, and that levity with which they sponsor coups d'etat in unfavoring countries - you know, changing legitimate foreign governments at will and all that.

Anyway, this comes as sarcastic from my side, but I think it's accurately tied to history and, despite my unfavorable views on American politics, it makes for interesting and unique gameplay. As a follow up thought, though, the Soviet Union in the game has a similar objective promoting Communism, so it would make sense for the US to stick to capitalism, democracy, etc., and play that rivalry accurately. So, that would mean restricting the UP to these civics and not all those that could've been (although I very much agree with your proposition that, had politics and history played out differently, American pride would stand in line with whatever other civics and form of government that happened to occur).

What do you think?

I like your idea and agree that the new American UP is very passive. At the same time, there's a few reasons reason I didn't make such a massive change:

• With QMC I very much want to avoid implementing features I'm not 100% certain are sufficiently balanced.
• From what I understand, America's UP in DOC is meant to protect the AI from crippling unhappiness in the early stages of the game.
• I was always annoyed that America's UP was one of the few UPs that restricted their choices.
• I have not played many games as America, and none of those were UHV games.
• I made this change because I wanted to play a militaristic America, and was annoyed that their UP penalized the civics useful for such a game.
• I did not feel it was appropriate to make a massive change to their UP without testing their current UHV, their new UHV, and running and watching multiple AI games.

I made a simple change that would not threaten balance (outside of possibly making Russia's UHV easier) to ease my annoyance with America's UP, and placed it in a branch of it's own to ensure it's not seen as an official direction that QMC is headed.

 

[Andreevski]

I could not reproduce the crash by ending the turn 3 times nor by settling the first city and ending the turn 3 times. Could I have some instructions on how to get this crash?

After relaunching the save several times, I was not able to reproduce the crash either. Might be some random event. Thanks for taking into consideration my report and keep up the great work.

 

[ozqar]

I like your idea and agree that the new American UP is very passive. At the same time, there's a few reasons reason I didn't make such a massive change:

• With QMC I very much want to avoid implementing features I'm not 100% certain are sufficiently balanced.
• From what I understand, America's UP in DOC is meant to protect the AI from crippling unhappiness in the early stages of the game.
• I was always annoyed that America's UP was one of the few UPs that restricted their choices.
• I have not played many games as America, and none of those were UHV games.
• I made this change because I wanted to play a militaristic America, and was annoyed that their UP penalized the civics useful for such a game.
• I did not feel it was appropriate to make a massive change to their UP without testing their current UHV, their new UHV, and running and watching multiple AI games.

I made a simple change that would not threaten balance (outside of possibly making Russia's UHV easier) to ease my annoyance with America's UP, and placed it in a branch of it's own to ensure it's not seen as an official direction that QMC is headed.

Thanks for a detailed description of your thoughts! Not that you had to justify your choices, but it's interesting to know what was the thought process. It's your modmodmod, so do the things you enjoy!

 

[1SDANi]

Just merged @merijn_v1's Camps mod.

North American Natives are a lot more manageable now.