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Does anyone else hate gunpowder?

Well, the muskets are advanced enough for me to feel the progress of the world, but not advanced enough to lose the "other-wordly fantasy" feel.

I guess much of this may come down to perception of time....

Since the Turns are merely Turns.... the passing of time is a matter of view.

I see FfH as a slow rebirth.... the peoples of Erebus are first trying to recapture knowledge long lost.... and then either compete for space on Erebus.... or try to bring about it's end/salvation....

In my head.... this all takes place over the course of several years..... not several generations.

In human history it was a long time between the early days of bronze and the advent of steel.... but I imagine that these skills already existed in Erebus before the Long Winter... so it wouldn't necessarily take as long to rediscover these techs

So to me.... I don't feel like Erebus becomes a "modern" world anytime soon

Guess that's me though :crazyeye:
 
Gunpowder is a much older invention than we usually believe. I think it was correct to include the specific types of gunpowder units, and nothing more advanced.
Even in fantasy literature, dwarves knew all about gunpowder and used it for mining and building destructive machinery, like cannons, although never thought of developing a musket, something that humans, when took(stolen) the knowledge of gunpowder, were quick to develop.

So, no, I do not hate gunpowder, nor I think it is destroying the fantasy feeling of the game, except, perhaps, for the graphics...
 
IIRC, China/Asia had gunpowder in the early 1200's. Just some slight real world perspective. I also might be wrong on that.
 
An interesting debate. In a last few games I have there was so many muskets that it was kind of annoying. Its true that gun powder is an old knowlodge but the chinese where jealously keeping their secret about it. Gun powder is not really a ressource but a composition of 3 (carbon, salpeter and sulfur), maybe those 3 can be added to ressources list instead of gun powder.
 
That'd be really akward to have to gather 3 diffrent resources to make one big resource to build one unit. It'd also be kind of unbalanced, seeing as that once you get 3 resources, you get a really good unit that you can easily spam and rule the world under your iron fist =P
 
I like how there's the possibility of Erebus going in the "guns rule the world" direction, but it's rare and takes a certain, specific set of circumstances to even be possible. Variety is the strength of FfH and that adds to it.
 
In my head.... this all takes place over the course of several years..... not several generations.

From a size 1 city to a sprawling empire in several years? Damn, these peoples of Erebus breed like rabbits...
 
They work even harder :D. Although this kind of messes up my perspective that it takes decades to become an Amurite archmage xD
 
I'm fully against guns in the game. Guns that don't spout fire, ice, and balls of other magical stuff are not guns that belong in a fantasy game. The main thing that I don't like about Civilization is the guns. I always get bored when all my knights are being replaced by musket men.
 
Thing is...some of the ships act like they have cannons when you haven't even researched gunpowder yet.

Yeah, I agree...thats why I try to disable the ships that use cannons. Really ruins the game for me.
 
An interesting debate. In a last few games I have there was so many muskets that it was kind of annoying. Its true that gun powder is an old knowlodge but the chinese where jealously keeping their secret about it. Gun powder is not really a ressource but a composition of 3 (carbon, salpeter and sulfur), maybe those 3 can be added to ressources list instead of gun powder.

I think some of the ModMod's use sulfur instead of gunpowder ... it does make sense ... although a gunpowder mine in a thunderstorm would be interesting ... I think it's just a cosmetic issue, but I agree is needs to be fixed ...
 
Well, I for one love having guns in the game, although I've never had any problem of games turning into complete AI "shootouts" so to speak. As several posters have mentioned, it really shows how far your FFH society has come since turn one.

I really like the idea of the late game being being a magical based army fighting against the beginnings of a "hi tech" army. Philosohically, I also like the idea (late game) of the peasants finally "not taking crap anymore" from the archmages/high priests/knights by donning muskets. The gun makes all men equal.
 
Not exactly. The gun makes a conscripted army better, but it doesn't really have the armour-piercing capability many think it has.
 
I dont mind Gunpowder as an insanely rare resource, but as other people are saying it is popping up all over the place. Early gunpowder uses were unreliable as was the firearms that used them. I definately do not mind the progression of it. But if maybe only a nation or two has it. In my games it seems to spawn on all the hills. I think cannons are totally out of place those are very late gunpowder tech. Not early.

Now magic cannons, that would be sweet!
 
Not exactly. The gun makes a conscripted army better, but it doesn't really have the armour-piercing capability many think it has.

Yet in FfH... the most basic musket can entirely ignore stone walls surrounding high wooden palisades.... Hmmmm
 
The Crossbow is indeed a VERY strong weapon. Easy to fire, load, and dealing an amazing damage output for such a simple weapon... Technically it makes a bit less sense for them to be a national unit, though with how strong they are right now it's far from unfair.

Easy to fire yes, easy to load maybe, slow to load Very much so. In engagements of bows versus crossbows, the crossbows tend to lose as they can't fire fast enough. Crossbows were more popular because they needed very little training to use competently.

As to Muskets - they are most definitely not the first weapon delveloped after gunpowder was put to military use. The first uses included rockets, firelances, even bombs were a later invention.

Fire lances were basically a container of gunpowder that would ignite on impact, put on the end of a cavalry lance. Its effectiveness no doubt came from watching someone being incinerated. A possible UU for the Dwarven Knight perhaps?

After that very, very basic cannons were developed, all bang sometimes on your own troops and very little buck. the effect was mostly psychological, although they did work. Once decent casting was developed semi effective cannons, seige only were developed. Then slightly usable field pieces. About the same time Handguns were developed - think cannon on a stick, then arquebus -> matchlock -> musket.

Contrary to the common belief muskets were not primitive, they were highly advanced weapons for their time. In FFH going from gunpowder -> musket is very similar to going from archery -> Arbalest (arguably the most advanced crossbow weapon developed)

Gunpowder weapons did not just appear they took almost 600 years of constant refinement to get to what was being used by the Napoleonic era.

If FFH is going to use them then I suggest reworking the current system to get them to fit in better.

Bring Gunpowder in earlier (bronze working), allow it a +:) for happiness (fireworks).
Then later allow Handguns and seige cannon (which followed on from the Trebuchet) say Feudalism, the hand gun is a promotion that gives a modest bonus to Melee units (say +10% vs all -25% versus fire - see below)
At Engineering gunpowder gives a +1 to mines?
The appearence of Cannon that work is heralded quite well by Navigation with frigates et al possibly allow actual cannon.
Finally allow muskets in late on, and I agree a national limit, perhaps allow upgrading Royal guard to Musketeers (they were the kings after all!) or call them Dragoons (mounted muskets sort of)

The use of gunpowder won't just appear at the end of the tech tree, which it didn't. Fire based units should do either do extra damage to gunpowder based unit or it should be less effective.

IIRC, China/Asia had gunpowder in the early 1200's. Just some slight real world perspective. I also might be wrong on that.

Crude Cannons first appears in the 1200's Gunpowder was known about for much longer, here there is much more debate. estimates go from decades to hundreds of years.
 
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