Domination on Immortal/Deity - a noob's guide

[budweiser]

Budweiser, i was going to answer but can you define cheesy for me. Not a native speaker and I may have a completely wrong idea about what it means.

I mean its too easy to take advantage of AI weakness if you do the same thing all the time like make 6 c-bows, choose Honor and attack.

This illustration show 6 c-bow which is the basis of my assault. But soon, cannons will be the focus.

Spoiler :

 

[consentient]

Btw, what happened with your LPs? I've been waiting and waiting for 1 of the 3 possible Ottoman games!

I plan to play the Ottoman map at some stage when I have enough time to record an LP. Right now I'm preparing to change jobs and country of residence so not a great time.

2 thought that doesn't seem to have been discussed.
1.) Don't underestimate horsemen.

Definitely horsemen are great. I'll add a bit at some point about how to use them and keep them alive and promoted through the ages. The guide is far from a finished product

2.) Don't start too early, wait until you have enough units.

Start what though? Start attacking other units? This should be done as soon as the unit is hatched, in my view. But start besieging cities? Yeah, you need to have enough units. I will definitely getting around to a complete siege guide, including mini video guides.

I've made a puny attempt at starting a domination of the recent Dido DCL. This might not be the best as it is a water map and there are not city states to steal from, and geography makes the first land-connected civ difficult to approach. So, I will try with a different map first (probably the one from the deity lib-trad challenge).

I recommend the Shoshone map from that thread. It's strong as hell for a 3 city-NC with Liberty.

1) After building a granary + monument + library in all cities, I did not have enough production left for 6-8 CB's (I have them 10 turns later or so). Should I skip those?

Skip the granary. Go Monument-Archer, Construction before Philosophy, and then Library third so that you can get NC in good time.

2) At turn 85 I was still one social policy away from finishing liberty. Do you assume that you can use oracle to finish lib? And still have enough hammers for the CB's? If oracle is gone, do you hand-build NC or just get it 10-15 turns later?

You want your libraries to be finished by T65-70 so you can choose between hard-building NC (if you think you have competitors for Oracle - Pacal, Gandhi, etc.) or Oracle (strictly better when playing Liberty). But I will discuss all this in the Liberty-specific section.

Is that a clever pun, or did you intend to type "piecemeal"??

I think it was either a brainfart or the Apple autocorrector not having sufficient British English. The worst thing about Apple is their lack of internationalism.

Budweiser, i was going to answer but can you define cheesy for me. Not a native speaker and I may have a completely wrong idea about what it means.

Cheesy usually means of low quality, and it can also mean cheap, too common, and/or making you cringe. Check this out for a prime example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T04kFJe56WU

 

[phillipwyllie]

...Start what though? Start attacking other units? This should be done as soon as the unit is hatched, in my view. But start besieging cities? Yeah, you need to have enough units. I will definitely getting around to a complete siege guide, including mini video guides....

Yeah I meant cities. Although I never like to give the AI a few turns advantage by DOWing early. I remember an epic fail where I DOW the Ottomans a few turns too early, lets just say the war didn't go anywhere until I got Keshiks.

 

[mbbcam]

the Apple autocorrector not having sufficient British English.

The Apple auto "corrector" is an abomination. As I was horrified to discover, it allows "anymore" instead of "any more". Where, in God's name, did that come from?

But partly I drew attention to it because I'm mindful of the fact that there are many non-native speakers who frequent these forums, and while I might appreciate the pun, they might struggle to understand.

Best of luck with the move. I've been through it myself. It always takes me a long time to readjust.

 

[vanatteveldt]

I recommend the Shoshone map from that thread. It's strong as hell for a 3 city-NC with Liberty.

Thanks! I played until t85 and am having a blast. Pathfinders are incredible! 40 culture, 30+60 faith, 2 free CB with terrain ignore

At 85 or so I got around 7 bowmen and just oracle'd the liberty finisher for a GE, so am perfectly on schedule.

I noticed that Petra wasn't built yet, so I decided to take a detour and founded a desert city west of Marakkech and used the GE to instabuild petra. I have enough cash from selling luxes to rush a library, so this delays my NC by 10 turns or so, which I figured would be acceptable. After NC I will build a final city on the SW peninsula.

Spoiler :

20 turns or so ago the Songhai declared on me, so I had fun killing their army with CB's. I then advanced on their capital, but I am reluctant to close in with only 6 CBs and one horsemen. I am 20 XP away from a general, so maybe I should just pick off units until I get the general and maybe some more firepower (although my cap is busy building NC). What do you think?

 

[phillipwyllie]

...What do you think?

I'd be going after Marrakesh, it's only at 22 strength. The route to Goa is full of rough terrain and probably has no wonders. You have 2 tiles in Marrakesh's 2nd ring so 2 catapults in there should do the trick.

 

[consentient]

I completely concur. In my play through of this game, I annihilated Marrakesh really early then went after Darius. But founding another city just to have Petra in a really quite crappy location was a bad idea, I have to say. You have gold to buy a library. I'd use it. But next time consider 3 city NC and earlier CBs and go after the weakest victim. If you DO manage to take out Askia before Mandelcavs that will be great but it looks harder to take as phillip said.

Also you should have built roads to connect all your cities for gold and happiness earlier. Lack of workers? The Shoshone need even more than everyone else!

But it looks like you're in REASONABLE shape. Best of luck finishing the map

 

[beetle]

I recommend the Shoshone map from that thread. It's strong as hell for a 3 city-NC with Liberty.

Which thread? The DCL featuring Shoshone? The context seems to be the current DCL featuring Dido, so I am confused!

 

[vanatteveldt]

Thanks for the comments. I do have a screenshot on the turn I got the GE, so I guess I could reload and build NC instead OR found the SW city and build petra there. Maybe I should try first without Petra to get a more "vanilla" liberty domination game.

I got 4 workers pretty quickly (stole two from Morocco and one from Geneva, plus the free one), but I guess one or two extra would have been good. Maybe Morocco has some for me?

Edit: This map: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13795833&postcount=112

 

[consentient]

Petra is great for peaceful games where you want to grow a big city and still have corking production, and pump out lots of wonders. But this is Domination. Build an army and train it and reach key techs in good time. Use the GE for NC and stick with 3 cities and CBs and go after your victims, saving your gold for upgrades to XB. Aim for Machinery ASAP.

 

[vanatteveldt]

Thanks. I reloaded before petra, made peace with Songhai, am am moving towards Marakkech.

Two questions: machinery before CS and/or education? Honor or commerce?

 

[phillipwyllie]

...Two questions: machinery before CS and/or education? Honor or commerce?

I'd do Machinery, then Metal Casting then Education. Honor or commerce depends on how poor you are.

If Askia is friendly and will give you open borders send a worker or 2 to chop down that forest/jungle making your assault on Goa a lot easier/clearer. Unless you can attack from the East. The reason for chopping is that ranged units in rough terrain can't see too well so their range/LoS will be hampered. There's a thread somewhere that discusses this, or I'm sure consentient will make a detailed LP on the subject of forests and ranged units.

 

[vanatteveldt]

Thanks again!

Small update: loaded the turn that I got oracle, and instead of building petra, built NC and then captured Marakkech and Rabat. I couldn't open Commerce yet so openend honour, not sure how many policies to pick.

America built Notre Dame (and petra and mausoleum) and Songhai built Macchu Picchu, so they are certainly on my hit list. I'm a bit scared of America, they seem well ahead in tech, but maybe that's a good reason for getting them first?

Happiness is problematic, but I will ally Hongkong and connect gems (I just found out these aren't connected yet :-$) so that should be okay. Machinery is 6 turns away and I have 10 CB's waiting to be promoted (of which only 2 with tier 3 promotions yet).

Spoiler :

More questions:
- America or Songhai? (or Persia?)
- Was it wise to capture rabat? Should I (have) raze(d) it? Or just left it altogether?
- Should I finish off Morocco or just let him rule the Southern Tundra?
- Do you ever annex cities? I guess Marakkech could be pretty decent, but courthouse is expensive in rush cost and maintenance.
- Edit: is it worth building a city in the SW? a good cluster of resources, but no new luxuries

 

[consentient]

America has problematic terrain. I'm not sure if you know this, but like I said on the scouting thread, unlike others, ruins are not my priority. Finding the capitals and scoping them out is my priority. American lands are probably gonna need artillery, or at least cannons. So I'd go East and try to keep American friendly, while building a 2nd army to defend your lands in case of DoW and someday head up to give GW a kicking.

Capturing Rabat was a good thing because it will help you assault Persian lands. But looking at your screenshot brings up another thing that I will need to mention in my guide: war roads. Build them ahead of time, and even during worker baiting and capture, to make it easier to get your units in and injured ones out.

Allowing Fes to continue to exist is fine. In my game I had to wipe him out because he dropped it on my roads and broke my city connections. But let him wallow in the tundra. No reason to wipe him out completely.

Annexing is good when you capture early and can afford the happiness. You will get more science from them, and can work universities when they are big enough. Courthouses are well worth 600 gold. But not every city should be annexed. I will go into more detail about this in due course.

It's not worth building any more cities now. Concentrate on taking them from the AI

 

[ToborajniN]

Really nice guide Consentient! Very well written and clear points. Looking forward to seeing the coming parts. Are you also intending to do a sub-section regarding proper use of specific nations and their UU's/UA's?

On a different note: hope the change of work and country will be exciting and good for you! Any mind sharing your plans a bit? Call me creepy an intrusive, but I find it interesting. I admire people that have the courage and ambition to move abroad to pursue a line of work etc they aspire to. So best of luck!

 

[consentient]

Really nice guide Consentient! Very well written and clear points. Looking forward to seeing the coming parts. Are you also intending to do a sub-section regarding proper use of specific nations and their UU's/UA's?

On a different note: hope the change of work and country will be exciting and good for you! Any mind sharing your plans a bit? Call me creepy an intrusive, but I find it interesting. I admire people that have the courage and ambition to move abroad to pursue a line of work etc they aspire to. So best of luck!

I hadn't considered going into such detail about individual civs. I think there are already good specific guides for those - a Zulu one, a few Persia ones, Mongolia, etc...

My aim is to lay down the foundations so that people can use this guide in combination with any other specific strategy they like, and have a good chance of learning the ropes.

You're not too creepy or intrusive, and I don't mind you asking. I'm an English teacher, so I tend to move from country to country teaching people. China is the next destination. Not my ideal choice, but they pay quite well.

And it's not courage or ambition that took me away from England, but the absolutely appalling state of the jobs market there.

- - -

Anyway, back on topic: I will post a map here for testing eventually, and discussions can focus on that one. It will be with the Iroquois (since they have absolutely no advantages) and will be a well-balanced map that will aim to equally suit Liberty, Honor and Tradition. Noob DomV players can then play around with that as a learning map.

Update: Map is posted, it's not Iroquois but Greece since I couldn't find a good Iroquois map. Greece are much better, but hey, this is for learning not showmanship.

 

[vanatteveldt]

Anyway, back on topic: I will post a map here for testing eventually, and discussions can focus on that one. It will be with the Iroquois (since they have absolutely no advantages) and will be a well-balanced map that will aim to equally suit Liberty, Honor and Tradition. Noob DomV players can then play around with that as a learning map.

Doesn't the forest=road make the tactical aspects and worker use / "war roads" quite different? What about the Netherlands (or Portuguese): the UU is very niche, and polder and UA won't really change the strategic considerations much.

 

[consentient]

There are hardly any maps where the # of forested tiles make any difference overall. The Netherlands UA is very powerful. Hardly anyone realises this. Plus they have good naval UUs. Polders are very situational. I'd rather concentrate on the land wars. The Iroquois are duff.

 

[beetle]

I will post a map here for testing eventually, and discussions can focus on that one.

I am looking forward to this, and I think Iroquois a good choice, close enough to The Neutrals.

I think I would need benchmarks with saves about every 25 turns for the first 100 turns to try and figure out what and where I am going wrong. No hurry, though, so eventually is fine with me!

 

[InDubioProReo]

Nice guide. I would like a tip on how to deal with Zulus by the way. I really, really, REALLY hate playing against Zulus in a domination game. They spam a million cities and a million units, and after a while it just get impossible to deal with, or rather tiresome to keep killing your 524th Zulu unit on the way to taking his 30th city.