Domination on Immortal/Deity - a noob's guide

[consentient]

I will eventually make a section about neighbours where I divide them into Near, Middle and Far.

Shaka is worst when he is in the Middle distance, because you can't get to him immediately, nor can you leave him til last when you vastly out-tech him.

If he is near, my advice is to prioritise wiping him out above all other things. Delay NC until T110, change social policy trees if you have to, just get him killed. Completely. Before you DoW him, set him to war with everyone (it will cost barely anything) and then denounce and wipe him out ASAP. Archer rush can work against Spearmen before he is spamming them.

When he is the Far distance, just pay him to be your attack dog to weaken everyone else, don't denounce him, and eventually he may even offer friendship. He is the least interested in religion so you can get diplo bonus with him that way, and he is one of the few AIs that rarely go Piety since the 'Piety' patch. This has made him even stronger than he was, since if he attacks at Civil Service, his Piety neighbours are quickly swallowed up, and he can puppet them and use the gold to pump more and more Impis.

But thanks for raising this point...while I don't want to go into detail about to play each civ, there are a couple of civs that I think it's useful to say how to play AGAINST.

 

[ToborajniN]

I hadn't considered going into such detail about individual civs. I think there are already good specific guides for those - a Zulu one, a few Persia ones, Mongolia, etc...

My aim is to lay down the foundations so that people can use this guide in combination with any other specific strategy they like, and have a good chance of learning the ropes.

You're not too creepy or intrusive, and I don't mind you asking. I'm an English teacher, so I tend to move from country to country teaching people. China is the next destination. Not my ideal choice, but they pay quite well.

And it's not courage or ambition that took me away from England, but the absolutely appalling state of the jobs market there.

- - -

Anyway, back on topic: I will post a map here for testing eventually, and discussions can focus on that one. It will be with the Iroquois (since they have absolutely no advantages) and will be a well-balanced map that will aim to equally suit Liberty, Honor and Tradition. Noob DomV players can then play around with that as a learning map.

There are indeed some great guides out there, and perhaps you could/should link to some of them in this thread? Just to make things easier to navigate for DomV newcomers. (since it's meant for them)

I also think that if you do indeed post a map, which would be pretty awesome, then perhaps you should start a new thread for it in the LP forum aswell so this one doesn't get as clogged up. (Then link to it in here ofc)

Regarding China: It's a truly amazing and interesting country. The culture and the way things work are so incredibly different from the west. Have you been there before or will this be you first ever visit? 'Cause first timers will very likely be somewhat taken aback by the way things work over there.

Best of luck though! What region/city will you be working in?

 

[stormtrooper412]

Make sure to quote Wu's DoW line when someone pisses you off

 

[consentient]

There are indeed some great guides out there, and perhaps you could/should link to some of them in this thread? Just to make things easier to navigate for DomV newcomers. (since it's meant for them)

I also think that if you do indeed post a map, which would be pretty awesome, then perhaps you should start a new thread for it in the LP forum aswell so this one doesn't get as clogged up. (Then link to it in here ofc)

Regarding China: It's a truly amazing and interesting country. The culture and the way things work are so incredibly different from the west. Have you been there before or will this be you first ever visit? 'Cause first timers will very likely be somewhat taken aback by the way things work over there.

Best of luck though! What region/city will you be working in?

I thought I HAD put links up. Thanks for pointing that out. I will fix it for sure.

I will post the map here because I don't want to divide discussion of basic domination into other threads. Keeping everything in one place is my aim.

I've not been to China but I lived in Korea for a year so I have some idea of what true culture shock can mean. I've been told the Chinese are worse in all the ways that I found Koreans to be objectionable, so we'll see. No definite destination has been chosen yet, but somewhere South of Shanghai on the coast, for sure.

 

[InDubioProReo]

I will eventually make a section about neighbours where I divide them into Near, Middle and Far.

Shaka is worst when he is in the Middle distance, because you can't get to him immediately, nor can you leave him til last when you vastly out-tech him.

If he is near, my advice is to prioritise wiping him out above all other things. Delay NC until T110, change social policy trees if you have to, just get him killed. Completely. Before you DoW him, set him to war with everyone (it will cost barely anything) and then denounce and wipe him out ASAP. Archer rush can work against Spearmen before he is spamming them.

When he is the Far distance, just pay him to be your attack dog to weaken everyone else, don't denounce him, and eventually he may even offer friendship. He is the least interested in religion so you can get diplo bonus with him that way, and he is one of the few AIs that rarely go Piety since the 'Piety' patch. This has made him even stronger than he was, since if he attacks at Civil Service, his Piety neighbours are quickly swallowed up, and he can puppet them and use the gold to pump more and more Impis.

But thanks for raising this point...while I don't want to go into detail about to play each civ, there are a couple of civs that I think it's useful to say how to play AGAINST.

Thanks for the tips consentient.

I'm in the middle of a game with Maya, Deity Pangaea Domination on Epic. It's t.450s, Only Shaka is left, he has like 38 cities. He had like 10 near my borders all around since plants cities every empty spot he sees, but I took and razed all of them with my bombers. Before I got that down I had to give up two cities and retreat, form a defensive front to stand against his onslaught. With some careful micro I managed to hold on and now with my Bomber force back in the frontline, I'm starting to make some progress. The soldier difference between us in demographics is like 70k ( he used to have triple my army at start) so it's going well.

Unfortunately I had to leave him for last because he was the farthest away from me.

EDIT: This is the current situation. He planted back one of the cities I razed at the coast in the northwest. I'll raze that again in 4 turns when one of my tanks get there. You see all the green spots around my borders? There were cities everywhere on them.

Spoiler :

 

[consentient]

Thanks for the tips consentient.

I'm in the middle of a game with Maya, Deity Pangaea Domination on Epic. It's t.450s, Only Shaka is left, he has like 38 cities. He had like 10 near my borders all around since plants cities every empty spot he sees, but I took and razed all of them with my bombers. Before I got that down I had to give up two cities and retreat, form a defensive front to stand against his onslaught. With some careful micro I managed to hold on and now with my Bomber force back in the frontline, I'm starting to make some progress. The soldier difference between us in demographics is like 70k ( he used to have triple my army at start) so it's going well.

Unfortunately I had to leave him for last because he was the farthest away from me.

Turn 450 is like early 300s I guess, so providing you have decent science you should have nukes any time, right? Do you have all the CS allied so they can help you out? I have no idea what you're experiencing because my wars are over by that time. Someone else will have to write the late game slog part of this guide. But anyway, stockpile gold, nuke his biggest cities and try to get some XCOM snipes in there. If he has 38 cities then I take it you're not on Standard either? Large or Huge?

 

[InDubioProReo]

Turn 450 is like early 300s I guess, so providing you have decent science you should have nukes any time, right? Do you have all the CS allied so they can help you out? I have no idea what you're experiencing because my wars are over by that time. Someone else will have to write the late game slog part of this guide. But anyway, stockpile gold, nuke his biggest cities and try to get some XCOM snipes in there. If he has 38 cities then I take it you're not on Standard either? Large or Huge?

I am waiting for the Nuclear Fission, which I timed with Manhattan Project. They will be completed one after another, so I'll have nukes in 20-25 turns or so including research and production time. I am the tech leader currently in the game.

I was about to leave the game because of how many cities he planted at/around/inside my borders. He has 30+ cities because in addition to what he conquered he kept spamming settlers. I hate those small cities around my borders because he can get bombers or units in them and cause major trouble. Maybe you should add to this guide that if you're fighting a lategame war and if your opponent has bombers, you should not rush the attack and go in without AA guns. I tried that this game and he handed my ass to me after taking 3 cities, I was losing 3 units a turn. Then I reloaded, this time went after Poland first, and then with AA guns attacked Zulu. AA guns are important, they are the reason why I go Ballistics straight after Flight, because even though you get to bombers earlier, a runaway AIs ability to spam them are much higher.

City states are trying to help but not much of a big affect in terms of land battles. Their navy helps to keep Shaka's small navy at bay though. It is Standard map by the way, as I said he plants cities everywhere. Thankfully I can only focus on the frontline now. He keeps sending settlers through my borders, giving me extra workers.

What do you think about flanking maneuvers in Civ V? Do they make a difference? Have you flanked and encircled a huge enemy force before? I am interested to see how that would work, while I tried some flanking before, in most cases it is better to concentrate your force on the decisive spot. (aka Clausewitz)

 

[consentient]

All your questions pertain to Modern Era warfare, which I have almost no experience of. Like I said, anyone who wants to weigh in on this can write something and I'll add it to the guide. But basically, if you follow an optimal strategy, you should never have to fight the kind of fight you're in now. In DCL #5 I spammed tanks to finish off the last couple of AIs and there was nothing they could do about it because it was early enough. If you're trying to use tanks 50 turns later, it's gonna hurt, for sure.

 

[beetle]

I am waiting for the Nuclear Fission, which I timed with Manhattan Project. They will be completed one after another, so I'll have nukes in 20-25 turns or so including research and production time. I am the tech leader currently in the game.

I'm sorry to say that I think it's too late for a DomV. How many caps does Shaka have? And you? For nukes, you need two missles and about 4 xcom per city.

 

[InDubioProReo]

I'm sorry to say that I think it's too late for a DomV. How many caps does Shaka have? And you? For nukes, you need two missles and about 4 xcom per city.

No it's not too late, I'm sure I will win this. I am the leader in tech, so I really doubt Shaka can win it before I can get his capital. Shaka has somehow higher tourism than me, but I doubt he can overcome the culture I put out so far. I have almost all the votes in the UN, so diplomatic victory is out of the way as well. The only option is as I said if he can get SV before I conquer the last two capitals, which I highly doubt, and Time victory, and I'm sure the game won't go that long. As of this moment (t.464) I only need Ulundi and Washington. All other capitals are mine. If anything, I am going to get nukes soon. I can just double nuke and drop two paratroopers beside the capitals, and that'll be it. I don't think I'm in a position to lose this game.

All your questions pertain to Modern Era warfare, which I have almost no experience of. Like I said, anyone who wants to weigh in on this can write something and I'll add it to the guide. But basically, if you follow an optimal strategy, you should never have to fight the kind of fight you're in now. In DCL #5 I spammed tanks to finish off the last couple of AIs and there was nothing they could do about it because it was early enough. If you're trying to use tanks 50 turns later, it's gonna hurt, for sure.

I actually prefer late game battles. Using tanks, bombers and artillery in a coordinated fashion, and slowly but surely pushing your way to victory adds to the flavour factor for me, I never had a early finish with DomV nor would I want to

 

[consentient]

I think beetle doesn't realise you're playing on Epic. T300ish for a DomV is totally doable. I just don't have much experience of actually doing it. I think the latest DomV on the DCL was one of FluphenAzine's before he disappeared.

 

[beetle]

I think beetle doesn't realise you're playing on Epic. T300ish for a DomV is totally doable.

I got that, I just assumed that with 38 cities, that Shaka had more of the important parts of the map under control. My experience is that an AI will launch by T350, so I am happy for InDubioProReo that he is optimistic.

 

[consentient]

Nuking destroys spaceship parts, I think.

 

[phillipwyllie]

Dunno if this has been mentioned earlier attacking cities generates more XP than attacking units. I think this increase in XP is for ranged units only. Perhaps a test is in order?

 

[InDubioProReo]

I just won the game on t.493, on Standard size map, Epic speed on Deity. This was the second time I fought a lategame battle against Zulu and I have to say, they are one of the toughest opponents. Never faced Ethiopia in a DomV game before but I heard it's as bad maybe even worse.

I'll upload some screenshots. Just look at the one with the military diffierential in graphs when I attacked him. It's gigantic. Only at the end after 100+ turns of fighting, 4 cities full of bombers killing units left and right and 4 nukes dropped on huge clumps of units (you can see that in the last huge drop in the graph hehe) I managed to go slightly above him. In any case, they don't know how to use the units well, if they did, then with this many units (and also competent ones, not the lancer spam) AI would be unstoppable.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

I think I'll try a domination game with Sweden next. Gifting the GG to a Cultural CS sounds interesting, and gifting the further unneeded one to other states as needed seems like a good combo. I never managed to work Honor well though. The biggest problem for me is that my NC is usually almost not as tight in terms of timing, and that delays many things. Couple that with no growth or production bonuses gained from Liberty or Tradition, Honor starts feel sluggish and slow to me. I don't know, perhaps I'll get a good start.

 

[consentient]

With Honor, you should concentrate on growth and training units. Go Education before Construction so you get to Universities in Good time. Nice win against Shaka!

 

[Junnies]

its a common trick that all long-term warmongerers probably utilise, but i really tried abusing it last game and it was brutal and probably worth some emphasis; accumulating promotions on a weak AI.

i randomed England on Deity Pangaea (i play with 9 civs on a standard map to make land scarcer and aggression more likely) and had little land to expand so i decided to composite bow rush my neighbor, the celts, to make their cities mine. took a while as i had to be very careful around pictish warriors, so after taking 1 city + 1 capital, i decided to wait till i got my longbowmen. however, i didn't peace-out, but proceeded to train my compos onto a weakened celtic city till they all got logistics.

once i upgraded them to longbowmen, i had 6 longbowmen with logistics on turn 100+ and cities melted like butter!! i'm generally not a very skilled warmongerer (i take too many detours, fail to build roads beforehand, and forget to plan the advance properly) but managed to take out 4 civs whilst liberating many city-states in the next 80 turns!

 

[consentient]

It's definitely not a bad idea to train units on an AI you haven't yet put out of its misery, but I think keeping up the momentum and pressing home the advantage is a far better strategy. It might be safer to wait til Longbowmen before continuing, but by waiting you guarantee that the next capital will be a bit more difficult. If it turns out to still be easy (as it was in your case), needless to say it would have been easier still had you advanced, I imagine, provided your units were still valid. How long did you wait? What turn did you capture Edinburgh? Were there any other AI capitals you might conceivably have taken with CBs?

 

[Junnies]

It's definitely not a bad idea to train units on an AI you haven't yet put out of its misery, but I think keeping up the momentum and pressing home the advantage is a far better strategy. It might be safer to wait til Longbowmen before continuing, but by waiting you guarantee that the next capital will be a bit more difficult. If it turns out to still be easy (as it was in your case), needless to say it would have been easier still had you advanced, I imagine, provided your units were still valid. How long did you wait? What turn did you capture Edinburgh? Were there any other AI capitals you might conceivably have taken with CBs?

a good point to consider indeed. in my situation (after taking edinburgh), my next target were the aztecs (no friendly relations, 2nd strongest AI, easy to bribe him to war with others) who were roughly ten tiles away. i was maybe 20 turns away from longbowmen (around turn 80-ish), wasn't sure whether my compos would be good enough to force my way in, and was afraid that if i got bogged down, i would have to waste time retreating to upgrade my longbowmen before returning to attack again.

 

[consentient]

Composites are usually enough against Aztecs, I find. Just use spearmen or horsemen to shield them from Jaguars/Swordsmen. Maybe you didn't have enough. 10 CBs, 2 Horses and 2 Spearmen will take down an Aztec civilisation before late-game unit-spam broken-economy horrors.

Monty likes to make units, but doesn't bother much with walls or ranged units, and despite having the 2nd best growth-based unique in the game, usually has undersized cities which are easy to take.

Like Shaka, he becomes a problem only at the mid game ICS stage, but doesn't have Impis to help him survive to it if attacked by a fierce human.