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Domination on Immortal/Deity - a noob's guide

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by consentient, May 14, 2015.

  1. mbbcam

    mbbcam Prince

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    Can I make a suggestion for this very useful guide? Put in something about knowing your enemy. The recent posts suggest that this is very important. I probably fall down on this -- I know relatively little about the opponents I meet and how / when to deal with them. Perhaps the importance of this aspect is underrated.
     
  2. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    I considered it, but the variance is significant, actually. Bismarck can be both a double-crossing SOB as well as a decent individual pushing for Tall culture. There are some general trends, but there is enough info on this available at civdata.com, I feel. I don't want to repeat it here.

    In general, you should go for the weakest nearby neighbour first, unless there is no weak neighbour near, in which case you should go for whoever they are that is nearest. If you have Oda or Shaka nearby, kill them ASAP. Genghis is less of a problem because his first victim is generally a CS because he is nerfed by his flavour, which can only ever have been inserted for RP reasons.

    If you have more than 1 of Shaka, Oda, Nappy, Dido, Askia, Monty, Ash, Attila or Gustav near to you, and especially if you have more than 2 of them, it's another reason to reconsider going DomV.
     
  3. mbbcam

    mbbcam Prince

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    Fair enough. There is already a lot in the thread.

    But when you say "reconsider going DomV" do you mean that you should opt for something else?
     
  4. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    If I play a map and realise early enough that I have 2 or 3 horrid psycho warmongers within 15 tiles, I will give serious consideration to a peaceful defensive game with heavy troop strength. If I've not got room for many expos, then it's sealed. Turtling is the way forward, probably Small Piety, or my own favourite 'Rope a Dope Piety', as per DCL #12.
     
  5. Hax

    Hax Chieftain

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    Do you have any advice on how to close out games? When I warmonger I usually play very aggressively, attacking as soon as I am confident I can take their capital, even breaking DoFs in the process. This is usually sufficient to snowball me into a comfortable lead and ensure victory, but inevitably I encounter someone who's been wonderwhoring and has a massive carpet, and I find myself losing units. At that point I usually have to back off and wait for a key tech like dynamite before I can make any further progress. I've won the last 3 domination games I've played, but they were all around 300 turns in. Sometimes the last third or so just feels like a long tedious grind until you get XCom/Stealth Bombers, but surely there's a way for cleaner wins?
     
  6. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Getting to Dynamite in good time is the key to a DomV. Basically, you beeline it and have some Cannons to upgrade and the AI doesn't stand a chance. In other words, enter the Industrial through Fertiliser, then get Printing Press, Metallurgy and Military Science. Use Oxford for Dynamite and crush the remaining resistance. Usually that's enough, but sometimes this is the time when I will go into Industrialisation and/or Navigation. After Dynamite, save gold and hit Industrialisation, buy 3 factories and choose Autocracy. It won't be long after that, in most cases.
     
  7. mbbcam

    mbbcam Prince

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    Here's a question that has recently been troubling me: when does one build settlers?

    I begin to get the feeling that with Honor on Pangaea they have to built as soon as you hit size 2 or 3 in the capital. If you are isolated you can delay them, but if you have a couple of neighbours they are likely to grab any spare terrain quite quickly (especially if they go Liberty).

    Then again, I begin to get the feeling that positioning of cities has to be a bit "different" with Honor. Putting them a bit closer together often seems to be a good plan, so that they form a supporting "bloc". But this might be because I am not timely in reaching key techs and have to delay offensives.
     
  8. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Yeah, since they are not required to grow to be mega-cities that work every hex in the 3-ring, you can have them closer together, for sure. And it helps, especially in situations where you are aggressed against early, to help your Ancient and Classical era units defend your cities and their selves.

    Since I am not an advocate of Shrines, my general BO is S-M-S or S-S-M, then Settlers. Only time I delay it is if I am <5 turns from a pop increase after those first three builds, and then I will put the turns into an Archer so the Settlers can be built more quickly. To be honest, I think that whichever tree you open, you should go 3 city NC and have the last city settled by T50 at the latest. I think it works brilliantly for Trad, Lib and Hon.
     
  9. mbbcam

    mbbcam Prince

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    Perhaps this will help explain why!!

    https://youtu.be/BEG-ly9tQGk

    Crazy stuff ...
     
    MAGA likes this.
  10. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    That is VERY impressive. Thanks for sharing!
     
  11. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    I chose this map because it should work equally well for Honor, Liberty or Tradition, is quite good without being OP, and has possibility for religion (for those players who disagree with me that it's largely pointless).

    I am making an LP series and the first part is available here.

    For now, here is the opening screenshot, and T0 and T105 saves.

    I look forward to playing along with you :)

    Map is:
    Spoiler :
    Alex, Pangaea, Standard/Standard
     

    Attached Files:

  12. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Update T105 Education

    Everything is primed for an attack on the weak neighbour. This map would definitely have been slightly stronger going Liberty instead of Honor IMO, but maybe that's because I'm still a better Liberty player?

    Update T130 Pause

    I've still only taken the one capital, and the mid game would no doubt be a bit tricky, but I feel I've done enough to show the basics of the early game, and I'm eager to provide multiple examples of that here, rather than full LPs, at this stage. I may go back and finish it later, who knows.

    If anyone wants to play it and go Liberty or Tradition it would be interesting. Otherwise, I'll play it again myself after the Zulu map.
     
  13. peddroelm

    peddroelm King

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    Very nice ..

    (Was curious as to why I was still getting youtube subs without posting anything for a long while ..)
     
  14. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    I am in, but prolly not until the weekend. Would you kindly post the opening screenshot? I like to speculate before starting the game.

    I will be following in your footsteps, trying to hit your benchmarks. So the more interim goals, the better for me. Or did you imagine people watching your video while they play along? I think that could work for me.

    Maybe post your T105 save? If my early game is hopeless, at least then I have the option to start with the fun part!
     
  15. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Your videos deserve to be seen and CFC is a better place for your presence :)

    Done! :)

    OK, well I got Education T105 so that's one benchmark for you. I've added the T105 save as well if anyone wants it. I'm sure Peddro or another better Honor player than myself could get T95 ;)

    Beyond that, the benchmarks are how much total military and economic power you have, what tech your units have reached, compared with the other AIs, assuming you're not going for a speed run (and this map doesn't have the greatest terrain for a speed run). If you have the edge, you're doing well. If you lose the edge, less so.

    I tried that before with MadDjinn's India LP and found that the playthroughs were too different very quickly for it to really work. But try it if you like. My intention was that people new to warmongering would test their strategies on this map, since it's better than average but not OP, and can be done Trad, Lib or Hon.

    By all means, but I really recommend trying it for yourself first, at least a couple of times. Learning what you need to do in the first 100 turns on DomV is really half the battle. Being careful enough manoeuvring your troops is the other half! (I'm still not great at this!)
     
  16. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    How many expos? Your usual two for three cities? What was NC timing? Also your initial build order and priorities for the tech tree please.

    Thanks! I will be settling on T0 on the cotton, more for the observatory than the quicker lux, plus I can farm the hill. Settling-on-luxes and hills are more a priority for my expos.

    From the opening SS, I am thinking pottery, calendar, AH, archery, then mining and masonry before writing, philosophy, and then off towards education.

    BO will be scout, scout, shrine, monument, worker (if I have not stolen one), then archers and a couple settlers, then library and NC. Expos will be monument then library.

    That is all my opening plans, and I welcome your critique. One problem is that the above is all pretty generic. I don&#8217;t think I would do anything different for Liberty or Tradition (except expos skipping monument).

    Yes, and thanks! I may need some benchmarks for T50 or so, to tell if I am on the right track. I means specifics beyond the general ideas. T105 education would be very fast for me, so I may have to give up some of my initial plans to get near that. I am struggling to get any kind of dom win, and I don&#8217;t much care how fast it is.

    That is good point!

    Understood, and I think that is great! But did you play the map already a few times? If not, how can you be so confident that it&#8217;s better than average and works for all three warmongering styles? Just asking.

    I agree completely! The T105 file will be a nice break if I get frustrated after few attempts at reaching your benchmarks. Having it available will encourage me to try harder, and maybe I won&#8217;t need it!
     
  17. claudiupb

    claudiupb King

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    Wow, I actually did not beeline education this time. I was hoping to steal it, but the AI hit renaissance quite late, and it took forever to steal a tech, so I researched it after Machinery. I went Liberty and planted 4 cities. But I am fairly new to Deity and I'm sure I made a lot of mistakes.

    Spoiler :
    I made the mistake of trying for a religion, because of all the stone around the area, so I built a shrine after the monument. But I didn't even get a pantheon. I will never try for a religion when the Celts are right near me. Their religion was quite good, it had mosques and the ability to buy units with faith, so it was quite helpful. The Moroccans also had a nice religion with desert folklore and monasteries, and they spammed prophets like crazy.

    I forward settled the Celts but surprisingly they were ok with it, including buying tiles near their capital. They were only mad when I planted a great general to steal their cotton, and also have an offensive citadel for the future attack.

    I was quite unlucky with worker stealing, managed to get 2 from Morocco but quite late, also got one from a CS and later another from a barb camp. In the end I had too many with the 3 from liberty and pyramids.

    I timed finishing liberty with oracle just when starting a natural golden age, to get 24 turns of golden age. This has delayed my NC (i think i got in 90s) a bit, but I was not concerned with science that much.I just spammed CB, companion cavalry and a couple of hoplites.

    The English DOWed me as I was preparing to get Morocco, so Morocco lived another day, but the English were the first to go. I build a road through the jungle, and got 2 cities with CBs, London was a turn after researching machinery. They now hold a single city in tundra completely surrounded by the Danes.

    I then proceed to take the Celts, with logistics XBs and Pikes. They were quite easy especially since I planted a citadel 2 tiles away from the capital. Also Spain was at war with them at the time, so that helped a lot. I lost a couple of XBs but not the ones with experience.
    Byzantium DOWed me just after capturing London, and managed to capture it (I was surprised they did not liberate it) but I held them off in York, which was 4 tiles east of London. They had great wall so I planted a citadel for mobility, to get London back. After a while they accepted peace, but I planted another citadel just in case they attack again, and left a small force there.

    After Liberty I started honor left side, and finished it when winning the World Fair (it got proposed on the first time). It was just in time, as I was beginning to have money trouble. I also managed to put 3 policies in rationalism, since this game may take a long time for me.

    Spain DOWed me multiple times but they were never a threat. The Danes are becoming quite dangerous, they eliminated the Dutch quite early, and have a lot of land.

    I am currently conquering the Moroccans with XBs and knights, I'm 2 turns away from capturing the capital. I have researched all techs up to Dynamite , and have 3 cannons ready for upgrade, but I am one turn in Oxford and cannot complete it because I am razing a Moroccan city. So I have to wait 8 turns for that.

    Byzantium DOWed me again but that is not an issue since I have a decent defensive force and once I upgrade to artillery they will be wiped out, as I have enough generals to plant citadels so I don't get the Great Wall penalty. I only hope he does not get flight in the mean time.

    In science I am quite weak, I was 3rd to get to industrial (through fertilizer), and I'm currently researching Industrialization, and hoping to steal rifling from Byzantium (I'm beelining flight). The Danes are the science leader, and Byzantium second. I hope I will be first to Autocracy, but even if I'm second I will get the policy that lets me steal at double rate. I figure with all that land there must be coal somewhere, and with the Byzantium DOW I will make a lot of money to buy a factory or two, as well upgrading cannons to artillery and knights to cavalry.

    I don't know if I should bother with Brandenburg, I think I might have a change to get it but I don't know if it's worth it since I plan to go with Autocracy.

    I have attached a screenshot
     

    Attached Files:

  18. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    It's pretty simple. Find the capitals. Settle 3 cities. Build an army of archers. Make sure the settling is done by T50. The army is priority over the NC, but still an early NC is good.

    Experience, I guess. Tradition needs farmable river tiles. Liberty needs luxes. Honor needs a close neighbour. All of these things are here.
     
  19. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    @claudiupb

    that actually sounds pretty good, beeline to Dynamite and it should be game over.

    I'm all kinds of strapped for time these days so I can only wish I could join in the fun, on a different map though
     
  20. LordBalkoth

    LordBalkoth Prince

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    I'll try playing this soon, busy playing/recording another game at the moment.
     

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