Dota 2
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GAGA Extrem
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A dedicated focus from the enemy team will kill you quickly, even when you activate the whisps. Burst damage is her worst enemy.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
EternalEnvy would disagree.
bonefang
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I strangely find people hate Medusa.
Well the B*** is very easy to farm with initially, plus the mana snake can do insane damage + mana steal, once properly done. Later stage, with her mana sheild, she can live .. and the amount of damage she can deal is awesome.
Not to mention her awesome ulti
Well the B*** is very easy to farm with initially, plus the mana snake can do insane damage + mana steal, once properly done. Later stage, with her mana sheild, she can live .. and the amount of damage she can deal is awesome.
Not to mention her awesome ulti
GoodGame
Red, White, & Blue, baby!
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Medusa is very hard to farm and the mana steal is weak compensation. Her ult + toggle power is awesome if farmed. If the choice is Medusa or Troll in a pub match, I'd pick Troll any day, and only pick Medusa if she had a support.
civvver
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So where did cookie cutter lane positioning come from anyway? What I'm referring to is 2 long lane, 1 ranged/carry/ganker middle, 1 carry and 1 support short lane as setup in nearly every match. I get that the idea is you have a carry get farmed up in middle or some sort of ranged ganker to go gank the other lanes. I also get that you would want your other carry farming in the short lane for safety. But what about two middle strategies? Or even more aggressive 3 in a lane strats with early push? Maybe people tried those and they just don't work. But it seems like 2 middle would easily counter the opposing single middle which is usually a hero you don't want getting farmed.
There's a lot of very subtle depth to the lane setups and how and when to push them vs fall back, when to gank etc that I'm just now starting to grasp some of the features.
There's a lot of very subtle depth to the lane setups and how and when to push them vs fall back, when to gank etc that I'm just now starting to grasp some of the features.
azzaman333
meh
Im not sure about dota but a couple of years back when I played HoN the prevailing strategy was trilaning.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
This is also the case in Dota. Often you'll see pubs play 2-1-2 because it's very simple and the lanes are strong, but 3-1-1 is more efficient if played correctly (and is the dominant paradigm in competitive play).
civvver
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I was thinking 2-2-1 because you can catch a 2-1-2 offguard at mid and score early kills if done right. But pubs rarely have that kind of coordination.
I have only played about 5 competitive matches but the most common theme actually seemed to be 2-1-1 with jungler (the 1 in the short jungle lane). Junglers are easily countered of course but you lose a lot of xp running into the jungle to do so it's almost not worth it sometimes.
I have only played about 5 competitive matches but the most common theme actually seemed to be 2-1-1 with jungler (the 1 in the short jungle lane). Junglers are easily countered of course but you lose a lot of xp running into the jungle to do so it's almost not worth it sometimes.
GoodGame
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Tri-laning is possible, but there's usually the pub problem of too many carries being picked which would be exasperated if they tri-laned. Most pubbers respond badly to being asked to even bi-lane. That said, DOTA 2 is definitely open to pick and lane based strategies, with a pre-planned team.
civvver
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Yeah that's very true, most pubs have 3 carries. But what's funny is most of my pub matches are worse when there's only 1 hard carry or 2 semi carries like pudge or silencer, and 3 supports. If you don't have teamwork the 3 carry teams will beat you every time once the game goes long. In all picks I generally pick a carry if we only have 1 or 2. The more important thing in pubs seems to be mixing range and melee and having enough disables. Evenly matched teams, the ones with more team disables usually win like teams with tide, disruptor, enigma, jakiro, magnus etc.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
You can do 3 carries correctly with a tri-core kind of focus. It's definitely possible but these are pubs after all. That's why I mostly play ixdl these days. 
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
civvver
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I got slark in a single draft and now I'm sort of slark crazed. He is simply amazing as a ganker. So here's a little slark rundown from my perspective (only a few games played, dominated two, lost one):
Strengths: Strong ganker, strong escape, great mid game carry
Weaknesses: Poor stats, extremely item dependent, mana problems, terrible at towers, stealth dependent
Use: Generally I've been putting him in the short lane. You want a ranged support with you ideally, but one game I was solo vs two melee and was able to free farm. So it depends on who you're fighting. Stay in lane, take W skill then Q and E (doesn't matter the order) and it you have a disabler or strong ranged dps you can probably score first blood with a well placed leash. The only issues are going to be if you don't cooridnate the burst damage with the leash the enemy will run away, or if the enemy has disables to disable you once leashed, or sometimes if they have two uber bursty heroes they'll kill you. Generally this won't happen though and you should score a first blood with any good supporter hero like witch dr, lina, crystal maiden, jakiro or even carrys with good disables like spirit breaker or skeleton king or even nyx assassin.
After you hit level 6 you roam and gank when it's advantageous. That means if you are getting free farm in lane don't leave because one hero kill isn't worth leaving a full lane of creeps. If they don't have anyone in the jungle or their lanes are pushed back don't leave cus slark sucks at towers.
That's pretty much it, just try to keep the farm up, gank and roam a lot. In team fights AFTER the initiate (slark sucks at initiating because he's so squishy) I jump in and leash a support, nukers are good like lina etc. Another cool trick is to pop stealth then leash because it won't break it and they can't disable you or burst you if you're in a crowd.
Again slark sucks at fighting at towers and pushing bases. So you need another carry or good pushers on your team. He can carry late but not against turtles. He sucks with other stealthers too, the one game we lost had bounty and slark. An ideal team is going to be another strong carry like drow, viper, shadow fiend, a disabler support, a nuker support and a tank.
Items is where I have a lot of choices. Because his mana regen is so terrible I usually go boots then orchid right off the bat. Orchid is an awesome ganking item too, especially against escapers since the silence prevents escape. But diffusal is also a sweet item, so is sange and yasha etc. I have been going Orchid, diffusal then skull basher -> abyssal or butterfly depending on my evasion needs. Orchid is a nice item to build in pieces as well since those rod parts give you 75% mana regen at attack stats.
So idk, I've seen a lot of guides that say get all sorts of other items first from s&y to mkb to mordigan to eye of skadi for stats. So I'm not sure the best approach, but orchid is working for me.
Strengths: Strong ganker, strong escape, great mid game carry
Weaknesses: Poor stats, extremely item dependent, mana problems, terrible at towers, stealth dependent
Use: Generally I've been putting him in the short lane. You want a ranged support with you ideally, but one game I was solo vs two melee and was able to free farm. So it depends on who you're fighting. Stay in lane, take W skill then Q and E (doesn't matter the order) and it you have a disabler or strong ranged dps you can probably score first blood with a well placed leash. The only issues are going to be if you don't cooridnate the burst damage with the leash the enemy will run away, or if the enemy has disables to disable you once leashed, or sometimes if they have two uber bursty heroes they'll kill you. Generally this won't happen though and you should score a first blood with any good supporter hero like witch dr, lina, crystal maiden, jakiro or even carrys with good disables like spirit breaker or skeleton king or even nyx assassin.
After you hit level 6 you roam and gank when it's advantageous. That means if you are getting free farm in lane don't leave because one hero kill isn't worth leaving a full lane of creeps. If they don't have anyone in the jungle or their lanes are pushed back don't leave cus slark sucks at towers.
That's pretty much it, just try to keep the farm up, gank and roam a lot. In team fights AFTER the initiate (slark sucks at initiating because he's so squishy) I jump in and leash a support, nukers are good like lina etc. Another cool trick is to pop stealth then leash because it won't break it and they can't disable you or burst you if you're in a crowd.
Again slark sucks at fighting at towers and pushing bases. So you need another carry or good pushers on your team. He can carry late but not against turtles. He sucks with other stealthers too, the one game we lost had bounty and slark. An ideal team is going to be another strong carry like drow, viper, shadow fiend, a disabler support, a nuker support and a tank.
Items is where I have a lot of choices. Because his mana regen is so terrible I usually go boots then orchid right off the bat. Orchid is an awesome ganking item too, especially against escapers since the silence prevents escape. But diffusal is also a sweet item, so is sange and yasha etc. I have been going Orchid, diffusal then skull basher -> abyssal or butterfly depending on my evasion needs. Orchid is a nice item to build in pieces as well since those rod parts give you 75% mana regen at attack stats.
So idk, I've seen a lot of guides that say get all sorts of other items first from s&y to mkb to mordigan to eye of skadi for stats. So I'm not sure the best approach, but orchid is working for me.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
Eye of Skadi is an awful item! A good build for Slark is the cookie-cutter Drums -> Orchid -> Yasha, or some variation thereof. Slark isn't an intelligence hero so he's an odd choice for Orchid, but given that he's meant to be played as a dependable solo-kill ganker, and since his health is tied to his mana, Orchid works out being better than you might expect.
I did play a successful Slark game where I got Eye of Skadi as my first item but I generally do not recommend it unless you literally have no other carries and terrific farm.
I think the idea of Orchid -> Diffusal -> Basher is very solid on Slark and I second it wholeheartedly. I might be inclined to build Yasha in there somewhere but Diffusal is also very good. I wouldn't get an Abyssal Blade but I think Butterfly is a good luxury item for Slark.
I did play a successful Slark game where I got Eye of Skadi as my first item but I generally do not recommend it unless you literally have no other carries and terrific farm.
I think the idea of Orchid -> Diffusal -> Basher is very solid on Slark and I second it wholeheartedly. I might be inclined to build Yasha in there somewhere but Diffusal is also very good. I wouldn't get an Abyssal Blade but I think Butterfly is a good luxury item for Slark.
civvver
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Abyssal only gets thrown in because by the time I get skullbasher as my 3rd or 4th item (behind boots, orchid, diffusal/s&y) the game is over so it's a good upgrade rather than saving for a whole new item sometimes. I concur with the orchid thoughts, once gotten you can use his shadow dance between fights just to hp regen cus you have so much mana and regen.
I have not gotten skadi but it comes recommended because of the obscene stats on it and slark has poor stat growth. I agree the effect isn't that great for melee but the stats are juicy. I totally forgot about drums. Need to throw that into my build.
Since we're discussing items I never know what to get on phantom lancer after boots, ring of basilias, diffusal. Do you go all out damage with daedelus? More hp with vanguard? Vald's offering? Choices choices. I'll have to find a good guide for him.
I have not gotten skadi but it comes recommended because of the obscene stats on it and slark has poor stat growth. I agree the effect isn't that great for melee but the stats are juicy. I totally forgot about drums. Need to throw that into my build.
Since we're discussing items I never know what to get on phantom lancer after boots, ring of basilias, diffusal. Do you go all out damage with daedelus? More hp with vanguard? Vald's offering? Choices choices. I'll have to find a good guide for him.
