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Dota 2

Discussion in 'All Other Games' started by GoodGame, Jun 30, 2012.

  1. civvver

    civvver Deity

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    Dota 2 release date is now sometime this summer. I don't think much will change in terms of gameplay. The game feels really polished and finished now, though they do major balancing patches every month or so. It seems like most games release then patch, dota2 has been faithfully sticking to beta status while they tailor it for competitive play. I think they really want it to thrive as an e-sport.

    It's supposed to keep the free-to-play model so should be able to play for no cost. Right now only additional aesthetics cost anything like hud themes and different outfits for heroes.
     
  2. Crezth

    Crezth 話說天下大勢分久必合合久必分

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    I think Dota 2 is being very well managed and I think it's a solid experience, but I have a friend who is also a Dota geek who heartily disagrees. He thinks Valve isn't doing enough for Dota 2. But I think that's silly.

    Dota 2 should succeed because it's a tighter game with a stronger legacy than its competitors and all the heroes are available to play from the start. I mean, that's big in my book. I've heard people defend the LoL model as "protecting" new players from having "too many" heroes to pick from. Bollocks, I say!
     
  3. civvver

    civvver Deity

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    The main surprise is how long is been in beta. Because they already have huge tournaments with big payouts. The main one this year in Seattle I think is over a million dollar payout (it's based on how many compendium things they sell through the game).

    I think it's having a lot of success for two reasons. First the popularity of original dota. The name draws people as well as familarity with heroes as well as they don't have to dream up all original heroes. Every dota 2 hero is a dota 1 hero with updated graphic model. So they only have to tweak the balance a bit.

    Second it's on steam. Steam is far and away the most used digital game provider. Riding its popularity is good for any game. And valve is a quality developer too.

    Also the pace of the game is slower. I tried hon and hated it, it was way to frantic for me as new to mobas. I know some hon players who can't stand dota 2 because of the pace, but for a noob being slower is good, more time to read your abilities, shop for items etc.

    I think the free to play model will work very well for them. Just look at all the vanity stuff blizzard sells in wow and you know that it works. They sell so many mounts and pet items. I personally don't buy the dota 2 items, but they give you these chests which have armor items inside and you have to purchase keys to open. I have one friend who buys a new armor set every month because he feels obligated to pay for the game lol. I think that's a pretty weird philosophy but his heroes do look pretty cool.
     
  4. GoodGame

    GoodGame Red, White, & Blue, baby!

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    That seems pretty silly in that there's no reason even to compete in pub matches, for a new player. Any new player can just play the bot matches to learn how to play a hero, and still have most of the same experience (even item drops).

    DOTA2's biggest problem is/was the rude players and lack of tutorials. They've steadily made some attempts at countering those problems with real efforts (in-game reporting with punishments, added tutorial, improved bot matches with better AI), that I'd say DOTA2 is actually very tightly developed. Really it's a much better developed game than most released titles are.

    If there was one criticism it would be slowness of development, but it has still been regularly patched, so I wouldn't even make that complaint, since it really is a humongous game with all of the heroes present in the game. It's obvious the game's development is about being fair and balanced for purely 'eSports' competitive purposes---not just rushing out the door for profit.
     
  5. Crezth

    Crezth 話說天下大勢分久必合合久必分

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    Dota 2's problem with rude players is shared by other MOBAs (I played a little League of Legends and the abuse is on par with what I see in Dota matches, by my evaluation) but the tutorial thing is a valid concern especially since Dota 2 is such a technical game. IIRC, Valve wants to make a finished and polished tutorial before releasing Dota 2 for public consumption.
     
  6. GoodGame

    GoodGame Red, White, & Blue, baby!

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    Yeah, I think they'll have to make a tutorial just about last-hitting or something.
     
  7. civvver

    civvver Deity

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    It is a pretty daunting game to just pick up. It seems so natural to me to jump right into a match but I forget I played 1-2 hours daily for a solid month before I really understood even basic concepts like last hits, creep spawn timers, how to keep a lane from pushing etc. Thankfully there's a ton of guides out there you just have to google them on your own.
     
  8. Crezth

    Crezth 話說天下大勢分久必合合久必分

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    Yeah it took me like a month of regular play just to understand the game. Of course, I had a very patient and helpful teacher, but still there's a lot to unpack for newcomers to the genre. It's so many small, stupid things, but they make the game.
     
  9. OrsonM

    OrsonM Our man

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    I love the game, I have over 100+ hours of it. I think it's going to be a huge success, even though the MOBA genre is right at that point where it seems like it's about to lose it's shine (it happens). Here's my thoughts of everything that's not that awesome about Dota 2:

    Development is kinda Tight Lipped: I love the steam workshop, I love that Gabe Newell will talk from time to time about whatever is on his mind at the time. But I do feel that a lot of the stuff that happens in Dota is for the most part kept closed within Valve itself. No major communication happens between developers and audience. All changes will just happen, deal with it. Right now everyone playing Dota 2 is giving the developers indirect feedback, mostly in the form of statistics, but not much else. Maybe it's just the nature of the beast, a beast with a few million heads.

    Too stuck on Dota 1: Again, for our slower reading audience, I think the game is AWESOME... but I do think a lot of the stuff within the game is a bit lackluster, limited by whatever else happened within Dota 1 years ago. Why is there only 1 map? How come none of the iffy heroes have been tweaked? Why does every character look like a Warcraft 3 Knockoff?. The answer to all these questions is that Dota 1 was (is) a very popular game, and Valve is not changing anything substantial because of the perception that older fans will throw a hissy fit if they do.

    League of Legends did change almost everything about Dota 1 and it's today the most played multiplayer game in the world. So you can change the Dota 1 formula, sometimes for the better. And yes, a lot of the older fans will probably be mad if you do, like this guy who refers to LoL with nothing but homophobic slurs (very insightful). Or maybe from that other guy who makes armchair videos about the history of Moba... but also has weird as hell right wing videos like this one where he defends Hitler, or maybe his misogynistic series against feminism (no research, no references... just weird ramblings, like the ones you get at thanksgivings from that uncle that "tells it like it is").

    Not to take them as a valid sample of who Dota's raging fanbase truly is, but I think you guys can change a few things and be on the safe side.

    The micro transaction store is a little pointless: ...so again, I'd snort Dota 2 like cocaine if I could (that's an intro for the waaaaaaaah y u critize dis? crowd). But what is exactly the point of the Dota 2 micro transactions?. One day after playing something like 8 games (each game takes about an hour) I received a pair of bracelets for the invoker character.


    Merry Christmas!

    I put them on and my invoker looked exactly the same. No one complimented my new mittens because they looked very tiny and for the most part were kind of unnoticeable.


    You can also get these mittens, so... variety.

    So clothes, for all your hard work you get clothes that look almost exactly like your other clothes. So if you have a mustard colored shirt that you wear every day, your reward would be a similar mustard colored shirt, but the collar will be Medium Spread instead of Narrow Spread. None of the items enhance or decrease your abilities and they look just like the other items you were wearing. Sure there was one time when my Crystal Maiden was wearing like a parka or something, and someone asked me whether I had purchased it or not. Which I did, I did spent my cash on that Parka. So yes, stranger, I did buy that, thank you.


    A parka fit for kings!

    We lost that game though, that Parka did not made my character any different. Because Valve will not dare making even a few of the items any fun (unlike some of Team Fortress 2 items, which change your gun to something different and balanced). Dota 2 items just look pretty and maybe some 15 year old will ask you if you purchased it or not (score!). That's about it.

    Not all the stuff you can get at the micro transaction store is lame though, you can buy different HUD skins for 5 bucks or a different announcer for 10. Which is always money well spent, in fact all games should have a Logan Cunningham DLC so you can get Bastion voice in every game.

    And yet, Porcine Princess Penelope!. I love that courier. You know what, Porcine Princess Penelope makes all of it worth it. Dota2 is perfect as it is. I wish more games had characters this cute and this piggy.


    Piggy!
     
  10. Dreadnought

    Dreadnought Deity

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    Went 25-0 as PA, won the game in 20 minutes... it was not very fun one shotting level 5 heroes when you're level 16.
     
  11. civvver

    civvver Deity

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    I enjoy a blowout win every now and then.

    I agree pretty much with everything orson said. They need to add more maps and new heroes not just updated dota1 heroes. Although since I didn't play dota1 I don't mind the heroes and I do think they're doing a pretty good job balancing. I would love a different map though.

    The store I'm torn about. For one thing it is pointless but I also like it being pointless because I don't want to buy anything. Some of the armor is very unique and noticeable like there's a spikey drow hair that looks like the singer pink, there's a shark head that tide hunter wears, axe has 3 or 4 different weapons to use etc. I would never buy any of it but it's cool to have I guess.
     
  12. GoodGame

    GoodGame Red, White, & Blue, baby!

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    Considering the power of DOTA1 in the international competitive scene, there's almost no way they'll deviate from that as long as money can be made at eSports events. DOTA2 really was intended to be a graphical update and eSports friendly of DOTA1, so I don't quite get why you guys want it to be LoL or one of the other MOBA's with original heroes. Just saying.
     
  13. civvver

    civvver Deity

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    It doesn't need to be, just ban new heroes from competitions and play on one map. For casual players some different maps and a few more heros would be cool. But since I didn't play dota1 I'd go for just implementing all the dota1 guys. I think there's 5-10 left.
     
  14. OrsonM

    OrsonM Our man

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    I love the game, and I feel there's nothing wrong with criticizing a few points here and there (I'm sure Valve is on the case).

    I prefer the game to any other MOBA out there. I love that they were the first to give you all the heroes at once to play, in contrast with LoL's fairly outdated model. I think the graphics are also way superior than those of LoL or HoN. But there's a few things that LoL did much better, such as having extremely accessible heroes. It is a drag to go for a random unknown hero in Dota2, since a lot of heroes are so needlessly complex (Meepo or Invoker, anyone?).
     
  15. bonefang

    bonefang Emperor

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    DOTA 2 for me is just like fad and fancy. doesn't bring anything new to the game, just better graphics ...

    well when 3 guys are running behind your arse, and you want to dodge them through the trees in the forest, while looking out for the nearest blue dot on the mini map.....
    or
    Potm trying to figure out where the target fellow is gonna run to in the next 15 secs ,

    who cares about the graphics ?

    for me its all about the adrenaline rush.

    also @ people that are confused with 'complex heroes', hand select heroes, instead of putting "-random" or its equivalent. Helpful right ??
     
  16. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

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    Yeah, tbh, while DOTA2 looks better than LOL, I found the graphics quite confusing in the thick of battle. Same for the minimap - stylish, but not as clearly laid out (and the tilting hero icons are also quite confusing).
    And the concept of scattered shops all around the map is just tedious compared to a single one at the fountain (plus: the new LOL shop UI is so tidy and well sorted that it is a breeze to get what you want).

    LOL might not burn down the big effect fireworks, but it is a lot easier to keep track what is actually happening in game. One would have guessed the experience from art design in TF2 would have been carried over to DOTA2.

    That being said, I really like to play my enchantress from time to time. "SPROINK!" :D
    ...and additional announcers (Bastion guy <3) are a really cool feature.
     
  17. Angst

    Angst Rambling and inconsistent

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    I'd play LoL over DotA if it wasn't so damn unimmersively cartoonish. I know DotA is as well with the artstyle and setting being heavily influenced by Warcraft but there is a certain other aesthetic to it that at least has a pretense of fantasy. LoL throws me off with all the girlchildren and this guy. It's very Team Fortress-y and not for me.
     
  18. bonefang

    bonefang Emperor

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    Not to mention HON, LoL & DoTA2 are just copies of the old warcraft mod....


    Also, wanted to express my extreme dislike for the hero called Enchaa.... any pub, i see an enchaa, its magina or lancer for me.... or my best heroine ... medusa.
     
  19. civvver

    civvver Deity

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    I haven't played Lol but I find Hon graphics to be too chaotic and confusing. Dota2 seems much brighter and plays slower at the start so it's easier for me to follow.
     
  20. GoodGame

    GoodGame Red, White, & Blue, baby!

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    I see your point, but then that is just developing a second game, when they haven't finished the first game yet.



    BTW, just discovered the joy of a Dark Seer + Siren combination.
     

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