Discussion in 'All Other Games' started by GoodGame, Jun 30, 2012.
bracer > boots > vlad > (bracer to drums) > diffusal blade
The stats on Skadi are very good and that is why it's good for Slark, but I think it's optimal as a last item or something like that. Basically what I'm saying is instead of getting Abyssal Blade you can consider going for Skadi, but only once you have a solid core for killing. The thinking there might be Orchid -> (Yasha) -> Skull Basher -> Eye of Skadi.
I have played too many games as Phantom Lancer and I like Aquila -> Tranquil Boots -> Drums -> Diffusal -> Heart of Tarrasque. I think HoT as the second big item after Diffusal is important for split pushing as keeping your illusions at full HP is really broken. Then you can build Manta or Butterfly depending on the situation.
Vlad's is terrible on PL because your illusions don't benefit from the lifesteal and you don't need the lifesteal.
illusions dont get lifesteal from Vlad ?
is that somekind of new nerf ?
At least that's how it's supposed to be (from DotA): http://www.playdota.com/mechanics/illusions
The same is true for Dota 2: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=34245
Here's a guide I found that lists what benefits illusions.
Kinda weird they don't get plus dmg, just raw stats, and they don't get lifesteal. They do spread auras though.
now it makes me think, that vlad on PL is stupid .....
Vlad's isn't bad, it's just not nearly as good as other items for PL. The plus dmg is interesting, makes dadeulus look lackluster. Your illusions get the crit but not the plus dmg.
Just got a free copy of Dota 2. Never played it, or anything remotely similar.
Going to install it now, anyone have general suggestions?
Don't play with NESers unless you want to cry yourself to sleep at night.
My advice is do a bunch of all pick games and pick the same 3-4 heroes to learn them. Choose a support type/carry type and a range/melee to alternate between so you get good exposure to different play styles. Then go to dotabuff.com and look up some guides on the heroes you selected. They'll give you good item ideas and how to use your abilities.
Remap your keys. The default hotkeys for items are numpad which is stupid. I mapped mine to regular 1,2,3,4,5,6 so I can hit them easily right above the default ability buttons. Also map a key to select your hero and select other units. If you are controlling any other units the other key selects all of them and your hero key selects your hero so it's easy to switch back and forth without clicking.
After getting at least an idea of what items do and what items you want, familiarize yourself with the shop so you don't go afk trying to buy items and die or miss out on exp. Figure out how to use the courier. There's a hot key to select it or click the courier box then it has hotkey abilities to automatically transfer your items etc. You can use the courier to go to the secret shops for you as well. Your goal in your first 10-20 games should simply be to keep up with everyone in levels and not die. Try to not spend a lot of time running around without reason. Early on a couple creeps are more xp and gold than a low level hero kill.
If you're the support buy courier and wards. Wards make a huge difference.
Vlad's is not a good item on PL, the plus damage simply isn't worth it. Daedalus is also not good on PL. You're better off going for the principle agi items: manta style illusions benefit from PL's ult, butterfly gives each PL illusion 35% evasion which is really good, and heart of tarrasque makes sure your illusions stay at full health. Items like Daedalus and Vlad's are missing the point: you don't need pure damage when you have 10+ illusions knocking down the front door.
Vlad's is realitively cheap, has mana regen and keeps you full hp so you can push non stop. I don't think it's bad per say, just not as good as other options. Obviously a heart of tarrasque is way better.
Different subject, I play lifestealer a lot and usually don't get hand of midas but last night I tried it and my farm really good. But it probably would've been really good regardless because I was completely unharrassed in the jungle. I popped out for a few team fights but I was lvl 18 when everyone else we 14 with a record of 2-2-2. My first reaction was wow, midas is very worth it. But then I ran the numbers.
Iirc midas is 80 second cooldown, 190 extra gold and costs 1400g. So it's 2.375 gpm so it takes nearly ten minutes of non stop use just to farm back that gold spent. If you get a good early midas around 8 mins, by approx 28 mins you've netted an extra 1450g. Which is obviously very nice but consider what you give up to get that early midas. 1400 is half way to mordigans on a hero like lifestealer. It's a difference of say a 12 min mordigans vs like 16 min. Could be a pretty big difference since mordigans is when you can really team fight effectively.
I need to run some more numbers in a bot match but I'm skeptical of it's overall value right now. Of course this is ignoring the bonus xp which might make it worthwhile regardless.
Edit: My math was wrong, it's actually 1900g and a 100 second cooldown, so even worse! However I did two bot matches with lifestealer, one going midas, power treads, mordigan's in that order, another going power treads then mordigan's only. I stopped at 20 mins and compared results. I only farmed radiant jungle, doing the normal stuff, stacking creeps, quelling blading the trees between the camps so I basically had endless free farm for 20 mins. No runes as that would've made the results different. I got midas around 8-9 minutes, got boots and mordigans around 16 and at 20 mins had 1200 xp into lvl 14 and 3360 gold. Pretty good haul. But skipping midas was nearly identical results, boots and mordigans around 12 mins, at 20 mins was 300 xp into lvl 14 with 4000 gold. So midas takes a while to pay for itself, but does give a noticable xp boost. And this was only 20 mins in. Midas tends to lose effectiveness later in the game imo, because you're not by the hard camps so often you use it on lane creeps, but still if it about paid for itself at 20 mins it's obviously going to be a boost in a 40 min or longer game, though not a gigantic one.
The main consideration is do you need to get out of the jungle and lane push or gank 4 mins earlier? Staying in til lvl 14 and 20 mins is not realistic. Is it fine to stay in for 16 mins? I would only do it if your team is winning the lanes without you and you're basically resigning to carrying late. Also going midas first left me visibly more vulnerable, I was consistently at lower hp levels until level 7ish. A good team that jungle ganks would make midas even less efficient.
I know Vlad's is cheap, I just don't consider it as effective as building diffusal or manta (hell, even yasha) or bfly or HoT.
It's a very technical game as in how its played, and generally not full of players who enjoy mentoring. So, I suggest not playing random public matches until you've learned and practiced some of the key game mechanics. Mainly stick with progressively harder bot matches, make friends, and try to start up a team from bot friends. There's not really a good written manual for DOTA, but YouTube has lots of tutorials; I recommend learning from Purge Gamers and DOTA CINEMA.
Stuff to learn about:
1. The map and the basic game balance. The maps are basically a symmetric battlefield of three lanes, dotted with stores and other features (Roshan).
2. "last-hitting" (this is the primary gold farming method in the game). This it a very mechanical aspect of DOTA games that defines them. If you try it and find it silly/stupid, then DOTA is probably not the game for you. It's the equivalent of micro-management and base management in StarCraft games (silly/stupid, but it makes the game).
3. general hero categories (support, carry, and non-carry) and their team synergy, and also the 'ability' categories of heroes ('disabler', 'nuker', 'lane support', etc....).
4. Learn about specific heroes, their specialties/uses, synergies with other heroes, and alternative builds (take suggested Valve builds with a grain of salt, but look for decent player-submitted builds to test).
5. team-work and voice comms. Random pubs tend to play DOTA games, but it's really a team oriented 'sports' game, so it's much more enjoyable with a regular group.
Hating the communication ban so annoying
Lol, what did you do, cuss out some baddies? I do think it's odd you can not communicate with your team yet still play. Seems like it hurts your team as much in many cases. Anyway, if anyone wants to do some public matches with me drop me a pm on the forums. I play most nights 10est.
I forgot to mention the basic game mechanics like last hitting etc. I guess I take those for granted at this point, but yes, it's a skill you must develop. And don't fight over last hits with your team. Determine who in your lane should get them (carries get priority).
I won't go so far as to say X hero is easy, because there's too many factors like who you're facing, what lane you are in etc, but I will say many heroes are far less complicated than others (having more passive abilities and easier to use active ones for example). The more simple ones you might want to try are lifestealer (you can master all his abilities in a couple mins), luna (squishy but very straightforward playstyle), sven, and I'll throw shadow shaman and lion in there as support casters (squishy but they have nice disables and nukes and no cast animations you have to time unlike lina or leshrac). Ones to avoid for now I'd say any stealther (bounty hunter, riki, broodmother as examples), any hero that controls a lot of minions (phantom lancer, visage, nature's are some), and heros that require a lot of positioning, usually the ones who depend on blink dagger (templar assassin, axe, magnus) and invoker.
Among easy Heroes, Dragon Knight is awesome.. Passive health regen & imba armor stats.
Ogre Magi, Sniper (get wind walk , diffusal , gank) & Skele king.
anyone here plays in Garena ?
I just got 5 free dota keys. If anyone wants send me a pm.
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